Harman Kardon Wattage (1 Viewer)

[Brian N]

Most people on car enthusiast boards say that BMW horses are a little stronger than other manufacturers. With that in mind, are H/K receivers underrated? Are H/K Watts a little bigger than others? For example, how does the power of a H/K receiver amplifier compare to that of other manufacturers?

 

[AndrewErickson]

My HK AVR325 is rated at 50 WPC and I've seen it tested at 89 WPC at Consumer Reports. Some say that it may even be more than that!

 

[ChrisLazarko]

My HK AVR-225 I tested is rated 55W per channel and I was able to get about 65W out of it at max volume.

 

[Mike Allen]

Click on me ---->THIS should help you see how H/K stacks up against other companies rated watts. As you can see, H/K is the ONLY company to underrate all of their amps. A lot of the companies so-called "100 watts" can only put out 30-50 watts before clipping/distortion when driving all channels. Most companies rate their amps when driving one or two channels at a time. H/K rates theirs while driving ALL channels

 

[Joe Tilley]

H/K is the only company to underate all of their amps.

Mike, There are several other companys that test there amp just like H/K dose.
The problem you run into is alot of manufactures out there will do tests driving only one ch at one frequency (eg 100watts @8ohm's 1khz). Needless to say it's pretty easy for most receivers to do this. But when you start driving multiple channels at multiple frequencyes it gets much tougher. This is where the better receivers start to show themselves. Co like H/K will test normally from 20hz all the way to 20khz driving two or more channels at a time & give you an RMS rating through that range. In turn what you get is a much more solid power number of what the amp is capable of doing.

From what I understand companys like H/K, Onkyo,Denon, Sony's ES line, Pioneer's Elite line, & some of the better Yamaha stuff, just to name a few will give you a fairly accurate power rating.
Just keep in mind if your paying only a few hundred bucks & it says 100watts X 6or7 or whatever your probley not getting anything near that with more than one ch driven.

 

[Mike Allen]

Hi Joe,
I was just referring to the link I posted. I'm sure there are some high end companies that underrate all of their amps. But out of the companies on that list I posted, H/K is the only company to underrate all of their amps. There are a couple of other models here and there besides the H/K's, but not many. And yes, I agree about the way amps are tested(1 or 2 channels vs. all channels)....in fact, that's what I said

Just curious, what other companies rate their amps like H/K? Anything mass produced?...or just oober-expensive high end stuff? If you trust Sound&Visions benchmarking, then you have to agree that none of those companies you listed(besides H/K) rate their amps honestly except for the occasional model. No other company listed seems to have any consistency in the way the rate their amps.

 

[Shiu]

Mike, even the Sony 4ES tested higher than their specified output, in one/two channel tests (seeS&V Jan 2003). True, Sony would not take the multichannel tests, but one cannot really say they are not honest, they did not claim that 110W X 7 means all channel driven simultaneously. Where HK is really unique is that they always provide numbers for all channels driven simultaneously.

At a given price point, HK models give good all channel driven ratings, but their two channel ratings do not always top those of their competitors. If you compare the HKAVR525, the Sony STR-DA4ES, and the Denon 3803, you will find that the 525 does not have the highest two channel rating, but probably the highest 5, and/or 6 channel numbers. When it comes to power rating, it seems that HK is big on power supply, but not as big on their amplifiers.

I am not disagreeing with you, but in terms of "all channels driven", HK may be the only "mass market" manufacturer that specifies accurate power output figures. For "two channel (stereo)", they are not the only one. The ones that Joe listed, do so as well. Example, from the link you provided, the Denon 4800 did quite well.

 

[ChrisLazarko]

That was well said Shiu.

HK rates all of there models with all channels driven though. That is why people who know about the whole thing with recievers saying 100watts are false because they are usually tested at 1KHz @ 8Ohm like Joe said, and that will yield 100watts.

But like I said my HK is rated 55 watts and does 65 easy with all channels driven.

 

[Nathan Porteous]

So what if they rate at all ch driven, how often do you think all ch are actually driven to full capacity, hardly ever. I have a 4es and paradigm studio gear and have never at any volume level has it struggled when a huge scene in a movie hits. So in my opinion i dont think it matters its just hk's gimmic

 

[AndrewErickson]

So in my opinion i dont think it matters its just hk's gimmic

It still sounds better!

 

[ReggieW]

HK is NOT alone. NAD has just as good a reputation of providing accurate stats for their amps/avr's. The T752 is listed as 80wpc x 5 by NAD, but it clipped at 92wpc x 5. The T762 (which I own) has not been tested in this manner by S&V, but it is rated 100wpc x 6 by NAD, and would also likely put out slightly more than this with all six channels driven, especially once you consider that its amps are slightly beefier than the T752's and it has a nice size Torodial transformer.

Reg

 

[Joe Tilley]

It still sounds better!

Funny you say that. I have a Sony 5ES & IMO it blowes the H/K 525 out of the water. One thing I hate about H/K is the volume is limited, I do think it's not a bad idea as it dose make it harder to drive the amp into clipping. But for sheer Volume levels my ES will kill it, & do it clean as a bell.

Really I think it's a a matter of opinion & what gets the most hype. H/K makes some very nice products but some of this stuff is just like Bose. If you beat it into people that one product is the best than people assume it is. But like Sony for example it's a 50/50 crowd. They make so many good products, but since they do make some not so good some people assume or rather insist that all there products are bad.

I think it just all comes down to what you really like yourself. I see our H/K rep almost every month & every time hes in he tryes to convince me that H/K is better than my sony. And in the same sentence tells me that I was stupid for wasting my money on a DIY sub, that I could have gotten more out of one of theres. But the funny part is I have invited him over several times to see my system & compare but he wont have any part of it. I've even told him if he could show me a better setup than what I had that dose everything mine dose I would sell my stuff & replace it with theres. Funny thing is he had nothing to show me. To me that says alot.

 

[Doug Brewster]

"True, Sony would not take the multichannel tests, but one cannot really say they are not honest,"

Kinda like, "I never had sex with that woman". Depends on how you define the word "honest".
If, to you, honest is how a 5-7 channel receiver drives 2 channels, then Sony is honest.

Power, quality, and enjoyment are different categories however. If you say that the H/K is more enjoyable or better than Sony (at the same price point) then arguments are strictly defined by personal preference.

"for sheer Volume levels my ES will kill it, & do it clean as a bell."
Volume, even cleanly delivered is not my preference in evaluating a receiver. Obviously, others disagree. That's what makes these forums so interesting.

 

[Jai]

Sorry for throwing this in Sony Guru's but when looking for a quality receiver or audio component buy one from someone that only builds audio equipment or a least a company that can diversify its products through other subsidiaries. I have owned quite a few Sony products that I have enjoyed and have been good products but I have never heard any Sony receiver ES or not that sounded decent. Just my opinion though.