DTS LDs not working on Onkyo 797 with Pioneer CLD-79

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jay Sylvester, Feb 17, 2002.

  1. Jay Sylvester

    Jay Sylvester Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just tried to play my first DTS laserdisc (Schindler's List) on my Onkyo 797, but I'm not getting any sound. I have the coax output on the player routed through a Pioneer RFD-1 demodulator, which is then hooked up to a coax input on my receiver. I know the demodulator isn't necessary for DTS, but I have both the RF output and coax output routed through it so I only need to use one input on the receiver.

    The DTS text appears in the receiver display, but the red border that normally appears around it to signal that it's active isn't appearing. All I hear is silence.

    Can anyone help?
     
  2. Jay Sylvester

    Jay Sylvester Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Okay, now this is weird. To check and make sure that the demodulator was working properly, I popped in a Dolby Digital LD, and sure enough the receiver detected the signal and switched to the correct mode. When I put Schindler's List back into the player, DTS output worked!

    I remember reading a while ago about someone here who experienced the exact same thing. DTS output would not engage on their receiver unless they played a Dolby Digital disc first. After that, it worked fine until they shut off the LD player, at which point it would stop working again. I tried shutting off the power on the LD player, and when I powered it back up and started Schindler's List, DTS wouldn't engage.

    Was there ever a solution to that other guy's problem?
     
  3. Rich Strauss

    Rich Strauss Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jay,

    This seems to be a compatibility problem between some Pioneer LD players & many pre/pros and receivers. I had this problem with 2 different pre/pros and am currently using a Pioneer 709 receiver as a pre/pro because of it. Pioneer seems to have fixed the problem but others haven't. Pre/pros that can be switched to DTS overriding the autosense (e.g. the Marantz AV9000 & apparently the Outlaw 950) don't have this problem. I am on the 950 waiting list so I have my fingers crossed.

    I talked to the guy who designed the DTS & DD processors for the HK Signature 2.0. He said that he had designed these processors for many other units as well. He said that the Dolby folks were very easy to work with. He said that DD is a software solution & is easy to tweak. He had no kind words for the DTS folks. He said that DTS is provided as a hardware solution & is nearly impossible to tweak. He said that DTS has gone through various versions & it depends on which one your processor has. He also said that it is a design problem and has no easy fix.

    I hope that this provides some illumination. But since you have a work around, you're OK!

    Regards, Rich
     
  4. Jay Sylvester

    Jay Sylvester Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The 797 has an option for both DD and DTS to be set to on, off, or auto. I have both set to "on" at all times.

    When I first turn on the demodulator and start the disc, I get no sound whatsoever, and the receiver display says that PCM sound is being sent. If I shut off the demodulator and turn it back on, the receiver switches to DTS, but I still get no sound. If I insert a DD disc at this point, the receiver detects the DD and works just fine. Then, I'll insert a DTS disc, and the receiver will finally detect the disc and output in DTS.

    The workaround works, but it's annoying.
     
  5. BrentW

    BrentW Auditioning

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is a problem with the LD player, not your receiver. I have had 2 Pre-Pros and 2 receivers exhibit this problem.

    My LD player is a Pioneer 704, very similar to your Elite. For some reason, I can also only get DTS to work after playing a DD disc. I have been unable to figure the problem, though at least two other people have confirmed this recently.

    Units tested: Onkyo 787, B&K AVP-3090, B&K Ref-20, Pioneer VSX-D509S, and Sunfire Theater Grand.

    Not all Pioneer LD players do it though. My friend has a Elite-79 and the Theater Grand and never had this problem. When I hooked up the Theater Grand to my LD, the problem showed up.

    Brent
     
  6. SHAWN SZILEZY

    SHAWN SZILEZY Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 1999
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Guys,

    I thought I would throw my experiences in here. I have had my CLD-79 coupled to a Lexicon DC-1 for 2 years now and have not had an issue at all. This is a strange one indeed.
     
  7. Bruce Cadotte

    Bruce Cadotte Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i was told to hook the AC-3 output cable to the De-Mod

    or your AC-3 input(if you have one) on your Pre-Pro or your Receiver for Dolby Digital and the optical output

    for DTS(this is what i do),the salesman told me the AC-3 output would not pass DTS?
     
  8. Jay Sylvester

    Jay Sylvester Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. Rich Strauss

    Rich Strauss Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brent,

    The 2 pre/pros that I tried were a Sherwood Newcastle 9080 & an HK Signature 2.0. I tried 3 Pioneer LD players with each: a 704, an Elite 99 & an Elite 97. None of these players worked with these 2 pre/pros. I then tried a Pioneer 409 receiver. All three worked with this receiver. So, I bought a Pioneer 709 & once again all 3 worked. That's why I concluded that the problem was in the pre/pros.

    In my conversation with the Signature 2.0 designer, Robert Popham, he suggested that I return my 2.0 & get another. He said that maybe the new one would be slightly out of spec & would work. That seemed like a long shot so I didn't. He mentioned that the DTS spec in regard to signal level had changed. He said if you have an LD player that was built before the DTS spec came out or built to an old spec, the signal level might not be high enough. Sample to sample variance might be enough that you could get lucky. The evidence seems to be that some samples of LD players are incompatible with some samples of pre/pros & receivers!

    Jay,

    It sounds like your Denon autosenses between DTS & PCM even with DTS set on. With the Newcastle pre/pro, you must choose between DTS & DD, it doesn't autosense these two. However, if you choose DTS, it autosenses between DTS & PCM. This worked great with DVDs & CDs but failed with LDs.

    Incidentally, my problem was somewhat different. With 90% of DTS LDs, I got DTS sound as soon as I put the disc into a newly powered up player. However, with about 50% of the discs, about 20-40 minutes into the disc the sound would cut out since the pre/pro had decided that the input was now PCM. Robert Popham said that he thought that it might be a thermal problem with the DTS processor in the 2.0. If I powered the LD player on & off, the DTS sound would come back & since these models of LD players remember where they were when powered off, it was possible to continue watching the movie. But, it was very annoying. One disc that always worked was Wag the Dog. I never tried the DD disc trick, but I found that if I played the DTS Wag the Dog first almost all discs would play to the end without the sound cutting out. The problem was exactly the same in the Newcastle.

    This is a very weird problem.

    Has anyone talked to Pioneer about this problem?

    Regards, Rich
     
  10. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2000
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Knocksville, TN
    Real Name:
    Rachael Bellomy
    I'm confident that there is absoutely no problem with the players here. Auto-sensing is the culprit. I use the Marantz AV9000 and it has a menu option to over-ride auto select. I have to use it for PCM Pro-Logic or the unit will treat it as PCM stereo. All things considered, I think it's one of the better pre's for LD. I don't think I'd buy a head unit that was limited to auto-sensing only after reading about Chris PC's & Jay's troubles. I buy into Rich's explanations and the DTS ever changing moods theory. Best wishes!
     

Share This Page