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Crimson Rivers Plot Question *SPOILER ALERT*

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Macri, Nov 7, 2001.

  1. John Macri

    John Macri Stunt Coordinator

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    I watched Crimson Rivers last night and really enjoyed the film although several plot points were confusing. Can someone explain how Judith was swapped at the hospital with the twin sisters? I can't seem to make sense of this situation. How can one girl be exchanged for two and where did the "bad" sister live?
    I might have had a bit too much Chardonnay while watching.... Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Vincent Matis

    Vincent Matis Second Unit

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    My thoughts:
    Judith was swapped with one of the twin sisters (sister A).
    As they grew older, the remaining twin sister -sister B-(probably living with her real mother) became a "danger" for those who swapped the babies: why two girls, born from supposably "different" couples, would resemble each other that much?
    That is why the sister B had an "accident", her body could not be identified, the school photos were stolen,...).
    Vincent
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  3. John Macri

    John Macri Stunt Coordinator

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    Vincent:
    Thanks, that answers a couple things but I still confused. So what you're saying is that Judith (University child) is living with the village woman's remaining daughter (sister B - who is later killed in the "accident"). What still confuses me is why Judith is a dead-ringer (no pun intended) for Fanny (sister A)? They look like identical twins! If this is the real explanation they should have cast actresses different in apperance.
     
  4. Vincent Matis

    Vincent Matis Second Unit

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    Sister B was not killed in the accident. The accident was staged by the mother to protect sister B. The mother cut a finger of the sister B and used the body of an already dead girl (remember: the highway employee said that the only thing intact after the accident was a finger the mother was holding in her hand). The police used the finger to identify the remain of the body and closed the case. Judith is now officially "dead"...
    Later, the pictures from sister B's school were stolen to destroy all evidence/hints that she looks exactly like Fanny (sister A)
    Jean Reno (1h33 into the movie):"They only swapped one of the twins, that's why their faces threatened the secrets of the Faculty").
    Hope it clarifies things,
    Vincent
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    [Edited last by Vincent Matis on November 08, 2001 at 04:44 PM]
     
  5. John Macri

    John Macri Stunt Coordinator

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    Vincent:
    Thanks for your patient efforts to explain things for me (and my wife). I really don't expect you to respond to these questions.
    Hmmmm. I'm getting closer, but a few problems still exist. 1) If neither Judith or the twins were killed, what happened to the real Judith (we never see her).
    2) Judith is not the killer - sister "B" is (not a real problem - just a misdirection).
    3) The IMDB lists the following cast:
    Nadia Farès (I) - Fanny Ferreira/Judith Herault
    This means sister A (Fanny) is "now" Judith so who's sister B, has she lived in hiding all this time? And once agian what happened to the original/real Judith?
    The apparent (to me) holes in this plot really detract from what otherwise is a great movie. Even Memento was simpler for me to understand...
     
  6. Vincent Matis

    Vincent Matis Second Unit

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    Before birth:
    Mr. and Mrs. Fereira - girl XYZ
    Mrs. Herault - twins A and B
    1) At birth, girl XYZ is probably killed at birth, she's "replaced" by twin A, she's called Fanny. At the same time, the Doctors told Mrs. Herault that one of the twin is dead...
    2) Mother goes away with twin B (Judith) to live in another French region...
    3) Ten years later, the mother comes back in the village. She realizes that another young girl in the village look exactly like her daughter. She realizes something happened in the nursery. The responsibles @ the nursery and Faculty learn that the mother is back, they try to kill her and her daughter ("As soon as we arrived, the devils tried to take her away!"). She staged the death of her daughter. Judith is no longer a threat...
    4) A few years later, Judith decide to take revenge...
    The movie doesn't really explain what happened between 3) and 4). In fact, it is not really told in the book either... The two sisters probably lived half a life each (although Judith's missing finger might be difficult to hide).
    It's only after watching the excellent doc. on the DVD that I finally understood everything(?)
    Vincent
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  7. kirkhgva

    kirkhgva Auditioning

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    Hi John, here is my full explanation of the film, should cover your doubts.

    Sertys, Caillois and Chernezé, three members of the University of Guernon, develop in the 70s a conspiracy to put into practice their eugenic theses: they replace the children of the university teachers with the children of the mountaineers. In this valley closed on itself, where professors marry each other by tradition, they imagine that the inversion of babies at birth would bring new blood among the clan of members of the University , but also to associate the intellectual capacities of the teachers with the physical aptitudes of the mountaineers, to create perfect beings.

    Their Machiavellian plan goes well, until a couple of mountaineers, the Hérault, give birth to two twins, Judith and Fanny. Sertys only exchanges one of the two children. When the mother discovers, a few years later, a little girl who looks incredibly like her child, she understands the full extent of the plot. Pursued by Caillois and Sertys, she fled to Sarzac with Judith, but she is spotted. To get rid of her pursuers, she makes believe Judith's death by simulating an accident on the highway. Judith's finger, which she cut and left at the scene of the accident, will prove to Caillois and Sertys that the child is dead. The mother then retires to a convent and little Judith went to Guernon and grew up with her twin sister.

    A few years later, Judith and Fanny discover the plot of the "crimson rivers". Caillois and Sertys have been dead for several years, but their sons are members of the university. They kill Remy Caillois in revenge. Philippe Sertys, panicking, thinks about the plot organized by his father and rolls by night to Sarzac, to make sure that Judith is dead. In the tomb of the child, he finds no body. He forced himself into the primary school, to see if a small Herault could have attended school in the school and carries compromising documents. Judith and Fanny torture and finally kill the son Sertys and old Chernezé, before Niémans and Kerkerian intervene, who discover little by little the plot, despite the threats of the management of the University, who are in on the plot.

    The cops finally find the track of Judith and Fanny at the top of the glacier overlooking the valley, and intervene before they can trigger the avalanche that would flatten the university which they despise.
     
  8. Bob Cashill

    Bob Cashill Producer

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    It only took 17 years to figure this out. :)
     
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  9. rcmeserve

    rcmeserve Auditioning

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    It helps if you read the novel, by Jean-Christophe Grange, on which the movie is based. The film’s director said that the book was so widely-read in France, that he didn’t feel the audience needed a lot of exposition. But it’s one helluva complicated story.
     
  10. UHDvision

    UHDvision Screenwriter

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    It's funny, I remember the french DVD had an extra where the author explains the movie plot because no one could figure it out. His explanation / pitch sounds way better than the film.
     

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