Are there any 16x9 CRTs that show BLACK instead of gray on the sides?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jesse Skeen, Jun 8, 2002.

  1. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    While I probably won't be able to afford a new TV for another year or so, what's turned me off from getting a 16x9 set is the gray bars on the sides when showing 4x3 material. This would drive me nuts watching anything in a dark room, so if I do get a 16x9 TV it MUST have BLACK bars on the side. I don't watch regular TV anymore but I still have enough older movies and made-for-video stuff that it's important to still be able to show 4x3 pictures. I really don't think burn-in is a big risk on a non-projection set unless you like to have the contrast cranked real high; I always keep the contrast all the way down. Do any TVs at least let you change the gray bars to black using 'service mode' controls or from somewhere inside the set?
    Call me crazy, but while I'd prefer to get a 16x9 screen, given the choice I'd still rather watch widescreen material with black on the top and bottom than have to watch 4x3 with gray on the sides.
    One more thing- do DVD players send a signal that will automatically switch the TV between 4x3 and 16x9 mode? I've heard some TVs can do this but my friend has one that doesn't so he has to manually switch the picture depending on what's being shown.
     
  2. Bill Slack

    Bill Slack Supporting Actor

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    Most progressive scan players will allow you to display a 4x3 DVD with black bars on the sides. My Toshiba does, and my Iscan does as well.

    I actually use gray bars on B/W films, as I find it less distracting.
     
  3. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    What about on laserdiscs, VHS, Beta or (yes) CED videodiscs?
     
  4. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    [​IMG] at CED
     
  5. Matthew-K

    Matthew-K Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a panny 47" widescreen hdtv and the tv can switch your regular television viewing from 4/3 to 16/9 in the setup menu. The picture looks good to, it doesn't look streched at all.
     
  6. Dean McManis

    Dean McManis Agent

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    Many non-CRT displays support black bars because they don't have any burn-in problems.

    There will be some nice LCOS and H2 DLP RPTVs coming out with good black level and contrast, along with high resolution, good colors, and PC input.

    And almost all of them display side black bars when viewing 4:3 material.

    -Dean.
     
  7. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    Doesn't sound like I'll be able to afford one of those, maybe a flat-panel if they ever come down in price. I prefer just a regular picture tube, which I've never had problems with burn-in on- there should be one that will at least give you the option of showing black or gray on the sides. I'll probably end up waiting til the TV I have now dies, but if I had to get a new one today I'd get a 4x3 HDTV and keep watching widescreen with black on the top and bottom if the only choice for 16x9 forced me to have gray on the sides!
     
  8. Dean McManis

    Dean McManis Agent

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    Jesse,
    The 40" Panasonic LCD RPTV with 1280 X 720p resolution is selling for under $3K.
    http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sho...ategoryId=2716
    And I bought my XGA DLP FPTV for under $2K a while ago, so there are some great deals out there if you look around.
    But I don't know what your budget is, so I would be way off if you are looking for a $500 TV with black bar capability.
    There are some CRT tube monitors with VGA inputs out currently, and they will work with the VGA output of the RCA DTC-100 STB, which has the option to choose black rather than gray sideboxing within it's control menus.
    -Dean.
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  10. Michael St. Clair

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  11. Robert P. Jones

    Robert P. Jones Second Unit

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    Blackbars WILL cause screenburn eventually, on CRT and plasma systems, both of which use phosphors.

    Greybars will cause less concern, but can still cause a line of demarcation between the image and the sidebars.

    Mit circumvents this by making their HD images move ever so slightly over the screen, at all times, slowly orbiting the screen.

    Mr Bob
     
  12. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    I paid $2500 for my current TV (40-inch 4x3 Mitsubishi) and don't want to spend more than $3000 if I can help it for an HDTV of similar size- I want a regular picture tube set because I don't like the picture quality on projection TVs and they're the most prone to burn-in anyway (video games always come with warnings not to use them on projection sets.)
    The only 4x3 viewing I'd use would be for older movies and music videos (cropping or stretching is NOT an option!)- I've never minded the "black bars" on widescreen pictures but having gray is just too distracting- if I have the lights out I shouldn't even be able to tell there's any unused screen space! It seems the gray bars are more to protect the TV from leaving CNN on all day with the contrast cranked up; I don't think the way I'd use it would be likely to cause burn-in. There should at least be an option to select black or gray, with a warning that black might cause burn-in.
    I had my eye on the 38-inch RCA which sells for $2500 until I saw that it shows gray on the sides of 4x3 pictures; are there any service-mode or internal ways to change it to black? Putting masking over the screen sounds cool but would just be impractical for me.
    BTW I'm a BIG fan of "service mode" controls and that's another requirement for any TV I buy in the future (along with knowing how to get to them!)- I have my Mitsubishi set for as little overscan as possible, and have the geometry set as accurate as possible. It's a good idea to hide these controls since the average person might just mess them up, but they're a godsend when you know what you're doing!
     
  13. Michael Lomker

    Michael Lomker Stunt Coordinator

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    My Panny 34WX50 uses black on the sides and I guess I was assuming that all of the 34" tubes did that. The Loewe Aconda sets also were black with 4:3 material.

    The Panny has so-called ID-1 detection to automatically switch between 16:9 and 4:3 material but AFAIK this feature only works with s-video input. I use components so it doesn't do me any good. Regardless, there is such a variety of DVD's (some anamorphic, some widescreen, etc) that I'd prefer to set it manually so that I know the aspect ratio is correct.
     
  14. Robert P. Jones

    Robert P. Jones Second Unit

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    Directviews don't push the brightness of the tube anywhere near as much as RPTVs do - which need to be liquid cooled, they would otherwise get so hot - so screenburn, while still an issue on ALL CRT devices, is not nearly so worrisome on directviews.

    Mr Bob
     
  15. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    I checked out a few TVs in the stores and saw at least the Panasonics and Sonys show black on the sides, so it doesn't seem as hopeless as I thought it would. The RCA is the only one comparable in size to the 4x3 I have now though, and it looks like that can only show gray on the sides. I'd hate to pass up a bigger screen just because of that, but I still don't think I could stand having gray on the sides.
    BTW one store had on "Star Trek: TMP" in pan and scan showing on the HBO Family channel, really makes me want to get a DSS- most of the 16x9 sets were showing it blown-up so all 4 sides of the movie were cut off [​IMG]
     
  16. Dean McManis

    Dean McManis Agent

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    Jesse,

    I have the RCA DirectTV Reciever (DTC-100) and it allows black bar selection within the control/setup menus.
    My understanding is that the RCA 38" DTV tube display has the DTC-100 tuner built-in.

    So it would make sense that it would also have that capability. BUt because RCA propably doesn't want to face the liability of CRT burn-in (especially with CRT RPTVs) it makes sense why they hide the override capbility from casual viewers.

    -Dean.
     
  17. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    Hmm, interesting- I wouldn't even be using the DirecTV receiver on it anyway; I'll have to see if I can get someone at the store to let me look at an owner's manual for that set. The ones I've looked at had either a TV or DSS antenna hooked up, but no VCR or DVD player which is what I'd mostly be using with it. Does this TV automatically switch display modes on DVDs, and are there any hidden controls to adjust overscan (I assume there are, but I've heard of people not being able to get the codes for them on some sets!)
     
  18. Lee Petty

    Lee Petty Stunt Coordinator

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    whats up with that? i didnt know you werent supposed to play video games on a projection set? i was going to get a new sony rptv and hook my ps2 to it. so you are saying i would damage the tv?
     
  19. Robert P. Jones

    Robert P. Jones Second Unit

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    ALL fixed images will eventually etch themselves into the phosphors of CRTs, large or small. Stationary security monitors and arcade video games are the worst, with blackbars on the top/bottom and sides of RPTVs coming in a close second.

    If your games don't have any fixed borders or grids - or fixed patterns of any kind - but are all swift moving action, always changing position on your screen and always completely filling it, you'll be OK playing video games on your CRT device, whether it is big screen or directview.

    One of the worst offenders would have been Pong, because of the fixed goalposts. Your RPTV would eventually have been seeing them in its sleep.

    Mr Bob
     

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