AFI’s Top 100 Films List Forum Challenge (Part 3) (4 Viewers)

[george kaplan]

I agree with the need for historical perspective. But in addition to pointing out the historical importance of the older films, I also think it's fair to point out which of those stands up well as entertainment. That makes those ones ultra-special: historically important and still entertaining. For myself, examples would include Casablanca, The Godfather, The Apartment, Citizen Kane, Rear Window, The Gold Rush, etc.
Of course the entertaining or not aspect is all personal opinion. For myself, I tend to agree with Sarah, that while an important film, I don't particularly enjoy watching the Wild Bunch.
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"That audience - 12 to 19 year old pimply faced, mean spirited males - came, watched and went on to whatever god-awful other pursuits" USA Network CEO describing professional wrestling fans

 

[Justin Spike]

Beyond the opening credits, I don't like watching The Wild Bunch either. Obviously, many film buffs disagree, but I honestly believe it's one of the most overrated films in the AFI top 100, and does not belong on the list. It may have been influential, but I would never consider it a better film than Scott's Alien, Coppola's The Conversation, or Boorman's Deliverance. Alien and Deliverance were just as influential as The Wild Bunch anyway, and are referenced quite often today in pop culture.

 

[george kaplan]

Walter,
Thanks for the info.
BTW, I just realized that there are going to be spoilers in the rest of this so, don't read any further if you haven't seen the Deer Hunter.
I forgot to mention the other thing that bugged me about The Deer Hunter. Movies always require a suspension of belief and make all kinds of illogical mistakes, and most of the time they don't bother me. The one in the Deer Hunter probably is minor, but as a professional statistician it drives me nuts.
Michael goes home to the US, leaving behind Nick who is playing Russian Roulette. I don't know how long it is until Micheal gets back, but I'd guess Nick had been playing Russian Roulette at least once a night for over a year. But, let's just say he'd played 100 times before Michael got to him at the end of the film. It's great dramatic effect that after surviving all of those, that he then dies.
But, the statistical probability that he'd still be alive if he'd played russian roulette only 100 times (and I think it's clear that it's much more than that) is approximately 0.000000012. That's about 1 chance in 83 million that he'd still be alive. Quite a stretch. And if it really had been once a night for a year it'd be 1 chance in 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!
It's a small thing, but the only other example of something very small that bugs the hell out of me is at the end of the Rock where a guy stole secrets prior to 1962 and it turns out that those secrets include who killed Kennedy in 1963. Now that's a conspiracy theory about JFK!
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"That audience - 12 to 19 year old pimply faced, mean spirited males - came, watched and went on to whatever god-awful other pursuits" USA Network CEO describing professional wrestling fans

 

[Walter Kittel]

George - Interesting observation about Nick playing Russian Roulette. I'd honestly never considered that point, and it sounds like the filmmakers didn't either.
Regarding Kennedy and The Rock, perhaps the information that Mason stole dealt with the planning of the assasination. ( Imagine that, me making an excuse for a Bruckheimer/Bay film.

)
- Walter.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Is he already playing when Duvall leaves? Seems like the situation was unclear at that point. And I also doubt that Walken was playing every night. He had issues to work out obviously but I don't think he was churning out the cash with his roulette business.

It could have been a monthly game with big money stakes considering the nature of it all.
But still, clearly, that part of the storyline is more metaphorical and meant for mood than it is literal narrative. We are simply seeing Walken's destructive psyche come to fruition. I mean, I think we all know that there is no way he's going back at that point.

 

[Jason L.]

The problem is that the AFI didn't proclaim these films as "The 100 Greatest Achievements in the History of Film" or "The 100 Most Influential Films of All Time".
They boldly stated that they are "The Greatest 100 Films of All Time", which couldn't be further from the truth, as I try and figure out how Wuthering Heights is better than Braveheart.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The following is the description of the criteria that AFI published when the list was formulated.
Using criteria such as critical recognition, historical significance, cultural impact, major award winners and popularity over time, these movies represent the very best of 100 years of American filmmaking and celebrate America's role as the world's cinematic leader.
Sounds simple to me, however, there will always be arguments and questions regarding methods used to gauge the industry and public as to which films have more historical significance, cultural impact, and popularity over time. Most of us have problems or questions about certain selections on the list but damn, give me a list that isn't questionable to some extent.
Crawdaddy

 

[Philippe Barsalou]

Well, this thread intrigued me. I checked the AFI list and discovered that I only have 13 movies to watch to make the 100 (I guess that makes me and old fart

):
All About Eve
Raging Bull (I just bought the DVD though)
The Grapes of Wrath
The Best Years of Our Lives
The Birth of a Nation
Stagecoach
Shane
Wuthering Heights
Giant
Mutiny on the Bounty
Easy Rider
A Place in the Sun
The Searchers
Now if there was a similar list for movies from around the world, that would be interesting... Italian, Iranian, Chinese, Japanese, German, Russian, French, Hungarian, Brasilian, Greek, etc. That would be a nice challenge.

 

[Sarah S]

I came back to defend myself
For the level and type of violence protrayed in the film "The Wild Bunch", I understand that it was kind of graphic for that time, but for that type of film, I don't really find that excessively graphic. I found the violece portrayed in "A Clockwork Orange" to be excessive and graphic, even though it wasn't as graphically depicted (showers of blood, etc). It could just be how I view violence in the Hollywood system. I also have to say that I havn't really taken any special courses on film appreciation either, but I really don't understand how TWB is groundbreaking in any way other than in it's violent aspect. The different group dynamics were interesting, and I guess it was a new way of depicting the old west; (that is, disappearing) and a new-for-the time story of aging bandits. Themes I thought were depicted better in Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid or even in Unforgiven.
Speaking of BC&SK, I managed to see most of this movie, up until the final shootout, then the picture started pixilating...

Damn Netflix discs!
Since I couln'd finish BC&SK, I popped Easy Rider. That movie was kind of neat... My husband walked by & asked if I was dropping acid, otherwise I wouldn't get the theme of the movie. I don't know, I guess Jack Nicholson's character summed it up pretty good when he said that true freedom and the long-haired hippies that represent that terrify people because they realize that they aren't really free. At least thtat seemed to be the moral of it. That or Freedom through Drugs and Motorbikes. The movie felt unfinished to me though; kinda upsetting 'cause I can't really understand random violence. 3 out of 4.

 

[Rob Willey]

#8 On The Waterfront
The local ABC affiliate conveniently ran this one yesterday afternoon. I wasn't overwhelmed by the story, but wow, what a cast! Along with Brando, Steiger, Cobb, Malden, and Eva Marie Saint in the main roles, you've got names like Fred Gwynne, Martin Balsam, and Pat Hingle in what amount to walk-on roles. Truly stellar!
The direction was above average for the era and I was really struck by how well cut (i.e., edited) it was.
The scene with Brando and Steiger in the back seat of the cab ("I coulda been a contender.") was worth the price of admission all by itself. Two of the greats working off each other early in their careers.
Not a great story to back up the fine performances, but serviceable nonetheless. 7.5/10.0.
That's it, stick a fork in me, I'm done. AFI challenge met.
As I look back over the entire 100, I've been wrestling with this question that's been reintroduced in this thread recently, how did they pick 'em?
Is it the best 100? The most well-crafted 100? The most entertaining 100? Probably none of the above. I know if I picked my personal favorite 100, there'd be some overlap but I'd make a lot of substitutions. I think the AFI put a premium on groundbreaking, first-time-it-was-tried, pioneering efforts. But I won't quibble with them, it's their criteria and their list.
Thanks to the challenge, I experienced several movies I might otherwise have overlooked. Thanks Edwin, it was well worth it!!
Rob
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"That suits me down to the ground."

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

I almost watched the videotape provided by my local library for The Apartment over the weekend when I found out that its DVD release is this coming Tuesday. I'll catch it on that format instead.
~Edwin

 

[george kaplan]

In preparation for the Apartment, I watched the other Billy Wilder/Fred MacMurray film last night, Double Indemnity. It's not really part of my AFI challenge, I've seen it dozens of times, but since it is in the AFI 100, I'll ask my question.
This movie came out in 1944. But it takes place in mid 1938. Neff early on uses a line that mentions the Philadelphia Story, which didn't come out until 1940. So, is this an error by Wilder, or was the Broadway show so well known, that an insurance guy in Los Angeles would have it as part of his vocabulary?
Also, does anyone else feel Neff is a more sympathetic and likeable character than Sheldrake, even though Neff kills a couple of people and Sheldrake just cheats on his wife?
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"That audience - 12 to 19 year old pimply faced, mean spirited males - came, watched and went on to whatever god-awful other pursuits" USA Network CEO describing professional wrestling fans

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

Some Like It Hot (1959)

(out of four); #14 on the AFI list.
The following words will not reflect the popular opinion of this film. But nonetheless, here they are.
These words have been used to describe this film:
Funniest Movie of All Time - AFI
“Outrageous”
“One of the most hilarious, raucous films ever made.”
“A hoot!”
“A Masterpiece!”
After seeing it for the very first time over the weekend, I wanted to make sure that they were talking about THIS particular film. Certainly, this is not the *best written* comedy ever. I can think of one right now that is better written namely, His Girl Friday.
Jack Lemmon definitely is the standout of the three main leads. His mannerisms while in drag were very funny. I just felt that the entire men in drag routine lost steam after the first hour. The film just did not have a solid story (a backbone, if you will) to stretch that same concept for an entire two hour period. Wilder tried to lengthen the running time by adding a scene involving a conference of all the Chicago mobsters, which to me was all fluff.
Marilyn Monroe was supposed to be a sex symbol here and was the main draw for this movie. Maybe that was back then before this craze on thinness started in the nineties. Because she looked just a tad bit plump here. Tony Curtis? Well, he did fine.
Maybe it was my exposure to the many episodes of that Tom Hanks sitcom, Bossom Buddies and all other gender bender films that came after this one that jaded my liking of this Billy Wilder film. But with most of the films on the AFI list, I was able to transport myself back into time as if I was seeing this film for the very first time and before any of its copycats. Maybe, I just wasn’t successful on this one as I was on those other AFI films. Or maybe it was just my mood that Saturday evening that warrants another viewing of this “masterpiece”.
So, whoever wrote this:
quote: Jeez Edwin, are you [and some of the other "AFI apologists"] ever going to give anything other than a great review for all of these films?[/quote]
This one is for you.

...until I see it again.
~Edwin

 

[Robert Crawford]

quote: After seeing it for the very first time over the weekend, I wanted to make sure that they were talking about THIS particular film. Certainly, this is not the *best written* comedy ever. I can think of one right now that is better written namely, His Girl Friday.[/quote]
Edwin,
I'm in complete agreement with you regarding the comparison between "His Girl Friday" and "Some Like It Hot".

Jack Lemmon definitely is the standout of the three main leads. His mannerisms while in drag were very funny. I just felt that the entire men in drag routine lost steam after the first hour. The film just did not have a solid story (a backbone, if you will) to stretch that same concept for an entire two hour period. Wilder tried to lengthen the running time by adding a scene involving a conference of all the Chicago mobsters, which to me was all fluff.

For me, Jack Lemmon was the best of the three leads and along with Joe E. Brown did an excellent job with the film.
quote: Marilyn Monroe was supposed to be a sex symbol here and was the main draw for this movie. Maybe that was back then before this craze on thinness started in the nineties. Because she looked just a tad bit plump here. Tony Curtis? Well, he did fine.

Well, Marilyn was not at her best physically speaking due to many personal problems going on at the time but I happened to love women with a little meat on their bones and who are not a walking advertisement for fighting anorexia.

quote: Maybe it was my exposure to the many episodes of that Tom Hanks sitcom, Bossom Buddies and all other gender bender films that came after this one that jaded my liking of this Billy Wilder film. But with most of the films on the AFI list, I was able to transport myself back into time as if I was seeing this film for the very first time and before any of its copycats. Maybe, I just wasn’t successful on this one as I was on those other AFI films. Or maybe it was just my mood that Saturday evening that warrants another viewing of this “masterpiece”.

Maybe, this wasn't the first time you weren't successful in your transporting exercise.
Crawdaddy

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

Maybe, this wasn't the first time you weren't successful in your transporting exercise.

No, Robert, it was definitely my mood.
~Edwin

 

[george kaplan]

Well I think very highly of Some Like It Hot (I'd easily give it 4/4), but I agree that there are better comedies. Unfortunately, I think we'd disagree on what those are (I find His Girl Friday mediocre), but then disagreement is what makes this stuff interesting.
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"That audience - 12 to 19 year old pimply faced, mean spirited males - came, watched and went on to whatever god-awful other pursuits" USA Network CEO describing professional wrestling fans

 

[BrettB]

Since we're discussing SLIH: In the beginning, the Curtis character is quite the womanizer, while the Lemmon character seems quite benign (talking about going to the dentist I think). Anyway, (seemingly) all of a sudden, Lemmon's character is acting like he just got out of prison, and Curtis's character is cool and calm, even though he's on a train surrounded by beautiful women

Did I miss something? It's almost like the characters switched all of a sudden. Maybe I need to rewatch.
2.26 movies/week to complete the challenge

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[Bill Buklis]

Well, I guess it's high time I joined in on the challenge. To start with I have 53 movies left to go. Definitely, have my work cut out for me.
There's definitely a few on there that I can't say I'm overly looking forward to. Mainly there's Wuthering Heights (seems a common problem, doesn't it?), The Jazz Singer, and Schindler's List.
I agree that I wouldn't put An American in Paris on my top 100, but that happens to be my wife's favorite film. Which is why it was a *must* buy when it came out on DVD. On the other hand, I [quickly looks over shoulder] don't really care much for it.
Left to go:
1Citizen Kane
5Lawrence of Arabia
8On the Waterfront
9Schindler's List
12Sunset Boulevard
13The Bridge on the River Kwai
16All About Eve
19Chinatown
20One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
24Raging Bull
27Bonnie & Clyde
29Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
30Treasure of the Sierra Madre
31Annie Hall
32The Godfather, Part II
33High Noon
34To Kill a Mockingbird
35It Happened One Night
36Midnight Cowboy
37The Best Years of Our Lives
38Double Indemnity
39Doctor Zhivago
44The Birth of a Nation
45A Streetcar Named Desire
46A Clockwork Orange
47Taxi Driver
51The Philadelphia Story
52From Here to Eternity
54All Quiet on the Western Front
55The Sound of Music
57The Third Man
63Stagecoach
64Close Encounters of the Third Kind
67The Manchurian Candidate
69Shane
70The French Connection
73Wuthering Heights
74The Gold Rush
75Dances with Wolves
76City Lights
79The Deer Hunter
80The Wild Bunch
81Modern Times
82Giant
85Duck Soup
86Mutiny on the Bounty
87Frankenstein
88Easy Rider
90The Jazz Singer (1927)
92A Place in the Sun
93The Apartment
96The Searchers
97Bringing Up Baby
99Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

 

[Rob Willey]

Why Bill [mockingly looks over shoulder], which parts didn't you really care much for?
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"That suits me down to the ground."

 

[Bill Buklis]

I don't really care for musicals that are nothing but that. Just musicals. Singing in the Rain falls in the category as well. That was another *must buy* (if you know what I mean) that would normally never visit my shelf.
On the other hand, musicals that still have a story can be quite good. For example, I love The Sound of Music, The Wizard of Oz, and Mary Poppins.
For similar reasons, despite rave reviews, I didn't really care for the Broadway show Cats either.