5-disc DVD/DVD-A players without bass redirection problems? (1 Viewer)

[Mike Keith]

Are there any 5-disc DVD-A players besides the JVC 7 disc model, the Denon 4800 looks pretty good, but so far from what I have read they all have serious issues with bass redirection, and I have a sub sat combo that requires the front speakers to be set to "Small". I have already purchased the Sony DVP-NC650V 5-disc DVD/SACD player, seems they have almost no output from the Analog Sub jack (-18db relative to the Front's) so I can't get it balanced properly, not to mention I have found that SACD's DSD Hi-Rez format is no better that the standard PCM lo-rez layer on the same disc. So I guess I'll give DVD-A a try since I've dumped a hole lot of money in component's that will handle the new formats.

I guess I don't have to have multi disc changer but I sure like the ability to throw in 5 concert DVD's and hit "Shuffle All" for random playback of all the tracks on the 5 disc's.

 

[John Sully]

I haven't seen a DVD-A or a SACD player with decent bass management. The Pioneer VSX-49TX receiver is supposed to have bass management on the 5.1 inputs but it turns out that it samples the inputs at 96/24... not so good if you have a 192/24 disc.

So far the best solution I've seen to this problem is the Outlaw Audio ICBM, an active crossover designed especially for bass management tasks. I'm using one with my Denon DVM-4800 and am very happy with my DVD-A performance.

 

[KeithH]

Mike said:

not to mention I have found that SACD's DSD Hi-Rez format is no better that the standard PCM lo-rez layer on the same disc.

What SACDs have you listened to and what equipment are you using? Just curious.

 

[Westly T]

I ordered the ICBM as well and hope to get it today or Monday. I have both the 5 disk SACD and 7 disk DVD-A players and made a switch that switches my 5.1 via a macro on my pronto. I'm estimating the cost of my Progressive DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/SACD/ICBM/auto-switch/cables setup at just over $800 plus allot of work and some excellent deals on some of the parts (If I was to build a second setup, I'd be several hundred over this cost).

 

[Mike Keith]

The disc I did this test on wae Stevie Ray Vaughn "Coulden't Stand The Weather" 2-ch Hybrid SACD, and the equipment was all Sony.

TA-E9000ES AV Preamp Processor

TA-P9000ES 6-ch Analog preamp

3-subs and multipul amps.

the bass problem on the SACD made the PCM layer sound a bit fuller, but the tonal charectaristics of Stevie's voice and Gutiar were spot on identical in SACD and PCM, IMO no difference what so ever.

Guess I'll have to look into a ICBM soon.

Now the SACD Multi channel CD's sound much better and the bass problem is not nearly as bad, but still a problem.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, the Couldn't Stand the Weather SACD you used could not have been an SACD/CD hybrid disc. Sony does not make hybrid SACDs. Did you mean to say that you listened to the single-layer SACD and the CD, meaning separate discs? Although you didn't mention the amps or speakers you used, you used a nice pre/pro and analog pre-amp. If the rest of the equipment was up to snuff, I would expect the differences between the CD and SACD to be readily apparent. You said all equipment was Sony, but I assume the speakers and the subs were not Sony. Anyway, I have compared the SACD and remastered CD of Couldn't Stand the Weather, and while the CD is quite good, the SACD fills the room better and sounds more palpable. That's been my experience. Obviously, your mileage may (will) vary.

 

[Dan Joy]

Quick question on multidvd changers. When you have 5 concert dvds ie... HFO, do they auto start or do you have to mess with dvd menus each time. It would seem that if youo had to access menu each time , it might not be worth the extra cash for a changer.

 

[Mike Keith]

KeithH, I have no way of actually telling which layer I'm playing or if in fact it is even is a Hybrid disc, I've never seen any indication on any disc cover yet, so you could be right. However for the test purposes I don't think it matters, because when I switch to By-Pass mode (I believe that only the TA-P9000ES has this feature) the standard analog line outs are routed through the AV Preamp which down-converts to 48-16 PCM and therefore nullifies the DSD Hi-Rez advantages, which is what makes SACD so special (according to Sony) and the sound is IMO incredibly similar. As for the rest of the equipment the amps are 2-Sony TA-N9000es bi-amping all DIY speakers thru a Marchand Active (XM-9 3KK) crossover and a Adcom GFA 555 for the front subs and a Bryston 3B Mono into rear DIY LFE sub, the source is the Sony DVP-NC650V.
As far as the shuffle play is concerned, most all of my collection (about 10 concert DVD's) will bypass the menu and go direct to a random track, although some that have extra features at the end of the disc like my Yes House of Blues have a section in the back of still photos and ever once and a while it will get stuck on one of those still photos and you have to use the Next Track button to move on. But for the most part it works very well if you select Shuffle, All, Track option in the menu of the player.
My Speakers
http://www.geocities.com/kingdaddyke...?1016664567380

 

[KeithH]

Mike, Sony Music is the only record label producing SACDs that is not producing hybrid discs. So, the Couldn't Stand the Weather SACD is most definitely a single-layer disc (no CD layer). Hybrid discs will say somewhere on the packaging that it is a hybrid. Also, all the Sony SACD players I have used have a hybrid icon that lights up on the display when you load a hybrid disc. I assume the 'NC650V is no different.

You said:

when I switch to By-Pass mode (I believe that only the TA-P9000ES has this feature) the standard analog line outs are routed through the AV Preamp which down-converts to 48-16 PCM and therefore nullifies the DSD Hi-Rez advantages, which is what makes SACD so special (according to Sony) and the sound is IMO incredibly similar.

I don't understand this. A bypass mode should prevent the analog signals coming from your SACD player from being routed through a pre/pro's A/D and D/A converters. Thus, if you have a bypass mode engaged, you should be hearing the unaltered analog signals (i.e., no conversion to PCM and conversion back to analog). Maybe you are talking about not using the bypass mode, meaning in your case, routing the SACD player directly into your pre/pro and bypassing the 'P9000ES.

 

[Westly T]

Quick question on multidvd changers. When you have 5 concert dvds ie... HFO, do they auto start or do you have to mess with dvd menus each time. It would seem that if youo had to access menu each time , it might not be worth the extra cash for a changer.

Are you referring to DVD-A or regular DVD?

As for DVD-A disks, the player I have will not auto play disks. I do have to mess with menu's somewhat, but several presses of the play button will usually get it playing multi-channel audio without looking at the menu's. I think DVD-A disks can each be different just like movie DVD's. The manual says it can shuffle play within the same disk if I remember correctly, but not all disks (I think this info referred DVD-A's but not sure and I'v never tried it).

 

[Mike Keith]

"I don't understand this. A bypass mode should prevent the analog signals coming from your SACD player from being routed through a pre/pro's A/D and D/A converters"

The By-Pass mode is on the analog preamp, so when I select the Bypass mode it By-Passes the Analog preamp an routes the signal into the AV Preamp standard DVD inputs which will convert to PCM and Down-Convert, as I said this paticular setup is specific only to these to preamps hooked togather, what you said is correct but it operates the exact opposite on my setup ie By-Pass Mode Bypasses the SACD Preamp not the other way around. BTW thanks for the info on Hybrid discs I didn't know there would be a logo or any info on the CD case stating this, I haden't seen one yet.

"Are you referring to DVD-A or regular DVD?"

Regular DVD, I don't have the capability to play DVD-A yet, although with this SACD bass redirection problem I may give it a try, looking into the Pioneer DV-47A