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MASTER BURN-IN THREAD: READ THIS FIRST! (And ask follow-ups here.)


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#1 of 369 OFFLINE   HarleyMYK

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Posted August 17 2002 - 03:04 AM

I just bought a Toshiba 42H81. If I watch a widescreen movie (2.35:1), I obviously get black bars at top and bottom, and I assume that is not a burn in problem.

If I watch 4:3 TV in normal mode I get grey bars on either side. Am I risking any burn with this? Is there a way to turn them off so they are black? Not too much of an issue, since the recommended stretch mode is pretty OK.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the set. I watched Tombstone (Vista Director's Cut DVD with my also new Tosh 4800) last night and I have never seen such a good picture on a TV.

#2 of 369 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted August 17 2002 - 03:17 AM

The gray bars are intended to minimize the risk of burn-in. Black bars pose much more of a threat. Burn-in results from uneven exposure of the phosphors that produce the image; an area that is black is getting zero exposure. The gray is designed to be an "average" of the normal exposure.

Regardless of the color, the key to avoiding burn-in is proper adjustment of the TV. Nearly all TVs arrive from the factory with the contrast set way too high, often at levels that could cause burn-in within minutes given the right image. Back it down immediately, and then get yourself a calibration disc (like AVIA or Video Essentials) to set contrast, brightness and other values properly.

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#3 of 369 OFFLINE   HarleyMYK

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Posted August 17 2002 - 04:18 AM

Thanks for the information Michael.

I started with Movie mode and then used Avia yesterday - although I keep losing my preferences somehow. I also can't figure out how to do the white setting (the first video configuration shown), but I just went directly to the advanced DIY section. Maybe they talk about it more in the early sections of the DVD.

By the way, the delivery guys from Best Buy actually goosed up the brightness and contrast by putting the picture on "Sports Mode" when they set it up.

#4 of 369 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted August 17 2002 - 04:26 AM

Quote:
By the way, the delivery guys from Best Buy actually goosed up the brightness and contrast by putting the picture on "Sports Mode" when they set it up.
Not surprising. The ridiculously high levels at which most TVs are set are a product of salesmanship. On a brightly lit showroom floor, the picture that people tend to favor is the one that "pops" most dramatically. In fact, those high contrast and brightness settings are obscuring detail and distorting both shapes and colors, but it takes a while to notice that (and you have to know what to look for).

M.
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#5 of 369 OFFLINE   Jon Sciabica

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Posted September 02 2002 - 04:06 PM

I have properly adjusted contrast and brightness on my Hitachi 51swx20b (my first RPTV) and am wondering if I should worry about watching too many 2.35 : 1 movies? Also can a 3 1/2 hour movie like the extended LOTR dvd cause problem with black bars on top and bottom?

What do folks around here do with 2.35 : 1 movies? Black bars or Zoom?

#6 of 369 OFFLINE   BruceSpielbauer

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Posted September 02 2002 - 04:30 PM

>>> I have properly adjusted contrast and brightness on my Hitachi 51swx20b (my first RPTV) and am wondering if I should worry about watching too many 2.35 : 1 movies? Also can a 3 1/2 hour movie like the extended LOTR dvd cause problem with black bars on top and bottom? <<<<<<

I would not worry about watching "too many" of the 2:35:1 movies, if you make it a point to also watch OTHER images, to compensate. I would worry if you tend to only watch 2:35:1 DVDs. If, however, you mix this with 1:85:1 stuff (or 1:78:1), and also do a fair amount of 4X3 (either with or without the use of stretch modes), you will probably be fine (since you have turned that contrast down).


>>>>> What do folks around here do with 2.35 : 1 movies? Black bars or Zoom?<<<<

I do both. It depends. On some, I decide the original aspect ratio is important, artistically. I just watched "Amelie." I watched it with no zooming, and let the black bars appear. The other night, I watched a trite, silly comedy which happened to be 2:35:1 (Ace Ventura, When Nature Calls) In this case, I really am not that concerned with the director's artistic intent, and the original aspect ratio. We zoomed the movie. I would estimate that I watch 60% zoomed, and 40% non-zoomed.

The above strategy will probably offend some who are steadfastly faithful to the original aspect ratio. The truth is, on some films it can actually "make or break" the film. On others, it can reduce the overall aesthetics, or alter them. However, on some films, the aspect ratio will make almost no difference at all.

And, regarding Lord of the Rings, I have watched it four times on DVD. Twice with the black masking bars, and twice with the Zoom on. BOTH were exceedingly pleasant (and slightly different) experiences. I thought this one would be a fun one to try zooming, as well, especially since their are so many close-ups, and so many scenes are filmed in a "claustrophobic" sense of framing, with tightly knit camera shots.

Now that your contrast is down, the next most important thing you can do to miminize the likelihood of "phosphor burn-in" is to simply vary that image. So, go ahead and watch how YOU want, but do not overdo any one type of image -- except the ones that fill the screen completely, with no logos (grin).

-Bruce in Chi-Town

#7 of 369 OFFLINE   Cameron Seaman

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Posted September 03 2002 - 02:43 AM

Wow. I would never, ever, alter or zoom a 2.35:1 movie. That's what I got a 16:9 set for.

If you have your set properly calibrated, you shouldn't have any burn in problems from watching too many 2.35:1 movies. I never have, but your mileage may vary.

#8 of 369 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted September 03 2002 - 02:58 AM

Quote:
I have properly adjusted contrast and brightness on my Hitachi 51swx20b (my first RPTV) and am wondering if I should worry about watching too many 2.35 : 1 movies? Also can a 3 1/2 hour movie like the extended LOTR dvd cause problem with black bars on top and bottom?

People have been watching letterboxed movies (2.35:1 and other ARs) on 4:3 TVs for years, without ill effects. Nothing's changed just because we now have widescreen TVs. As long as the set is properly adjusted, there should be nothing to worry about.

Quote:
The above strategy will probably offend some who are steadfastly faithful to the original aspect ratio.

That's a fairly safe bet, given the official mission statement of HTF.

M.
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#9 of 369 OFFLINE   Craig

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Posted September 03 2002 - 03:24 AM

I've had a widescreen RPTV for almost 3 years. I'm sure I've watched several hundred 2.35:1 movies at this point and I haven't noticed any ill effects. I don't have my contrast set super low either, it's in the 38-40 range depending on the source. My advice is to not worry about it. Adjust your contrast and brightness down to a reasonable level and enjoy your RPTV.

#10 of 369 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted September 03 2002 - 03:25 AM

Greetings

I have yet to see any TV out there suffer from CRT burn in due to DVD w/s bars. None ... Nadda ... nothing.

Set up your TV properly with AVIA/VE ... nothing to worry about. If you watch 100% 2.35:1 material ... then what do you care?

Burn in due to 16:9 squeeze modes on 4:3 TV's is another matter though. I have seen crt burn in as a result of this type of use even with so called proper AVIA/VE set up.

Why? Because they used AVIA to set up the 4:3 mode and not the 16:9 mode. They are different and the 16:9 mode should be the one that takes precedent here.

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#11 of 369 OFFLINE   Brent Hutto

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Posted September 03 2002 - 04:40 AM

Michael,

As you described, I calibrated my 36XBR800 using Avia in 4:3 mode, by default. So would you recommend manually setting my 36XBR800 to squeeze mode and then going through the Avia calibration again? That thought had not occured to me. Is it because the same amount of cathode rays are being focused into 3/4 of the phosphor area? So you might expect the white level to become higher because of that concentration, right?

Last night I was watching Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Right before the end credits there's a fast right-to-left pan across a star field. I noticed that the stars were leaving little trails behind them on my screen. I did a still frame and there were no trails. So that was phosphor decay, which I suppose could be a sign of those maximum-white star images driving my CRT too hard.

#12 of 369 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted September 03 2002 - 04:44 AM

Greetings

Yes ... the 16:9 mode is typically too bright / contrast too high ...

Set it up in the 16:9 mode when possible. Your 4:3 will be dimmer as a result but sacrifices have to be made sometimes ...

Or just pump up the brightness for 4:3 material when needed.

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
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#13 of 369 OFFLINE   Brent Hutto

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Posted September 03 2002 - 04:49 AM

Or I could calibrate the "Pro" mode for 16:9 and the "Movie" mode for 4:3 and change modes depending on program material. Except for watching The Simpsons on DVD (which is plenty bright anyway), almost everything we watch is 16:9 enhanced anyway. No great loss if I optimize for pseudo-widescreen.

Before I try using the "Movie" mode, though, I need to get a service manual from Sony. There's something about "Pro" and "Movie" that are different beyond the user picture controls. By that I mean that I haven't been able to duplicate a calibration done in "Pro" mode by starting over and doing it in "Movie" mode.

#14 of 369 OFFLINE   jeff lam

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Posted September 03 2002 - 05:15 AM

People on this forum worry way too much about burn in. Just about every thread asks a question about burn in and if those black bars would be a problem. Fact is, if the contrast and brightness is set correctly there will not be any problems. I think we should make a "Burn In" thread and stick it to the top so all questions can be answered in one thread instead of every other thread posted. Just a thought...

#15 of 369 OFFLINE   Jon Sciabica

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Posted September 03 2002 - 06:42 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I know this question gets asked a lot, and I have read a lot about it. Yet I just spent $3000 on a TV, and couldn't help worrying while watching LOTR, kinda ruins the experience. Your comments have helped put my mind at ease.

I also just wanted to know how people are watching 2.35:1 movies.

Does anyone who watches a lot of 2.35 movies just run 1.85 movies and not watch them to help the situation?

Jon

#16 of 369 OFFLINE   Todd_B

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Posted September 03 2002 - 07:18 AM

Like other's have said, burn-in shouldn't be a concern.

If you are worried about looking at those 'black bars' on 2.35 movies then just make some mattes.

..also if you are still counting, I never zoom 2.35 films.

Todd B
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#17 of 369 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted September 03 2002 - 01:50 PM

John,
I watched hundreds of widescreen dvds on my previous analog 4/3 analog rptv for over 2 years with no sign of burn in.

With my current nearly year old widescreen I never zoom 2:35 movies, nor do I stretch 1:33 ones--no burn in.

I do stretch the news in the morning as well as casual stuff like E news daily and such, so my set gets a bit of variance. I also catch myself watching stuff on HDNet a lot just cause it looks so damn pretty--and it's all 16/9 native.
Steve S.
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#18 of 369 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

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Posted September 04 2002 - 03:56 AM

Add another to the non-zoom count.
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#19 of 369 OFFLINE   Tom Boucher

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Posted September 04 2002 - 04:56 AM

One qustion/comment on the burn in issue with the big TVs.

Have any of you purchased those 'no questions asked extended warranties' from Sears and called in to get the burn in fixed? After reading the warranty offering very carefully, I find no mention that something like that wouldn't be covered.

Granted, most people probably buy the top-o-the-line model that places like Sears don't offer, but for those of us who didn't see a $600 difference and are a little concerned about permanent logos on the screen, is this a solution?

Thanks

Tom
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#20 of 369 OFFLINE   Travis Braddy

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Posted September 04 2002 - 06:16 AM

I have a burn-in related question...

My new Sony 34XBR800 is coming in tomorrow, and I don't mind zooming casual 4:3 material over cable, but I still like watching my 4:3 dvds at their natural ratio, do direct view TVs have many issues with burn in? I know it can happen, but how much of a risk am I taking if I calibrate the TV properly (I keep brightness and contrast pretty low)? I figure my usage ratio will be a bit like this - 70% 16:9/2:35:1 and about 30% in native 4:3.

I guess that would also answer my own questions about burn-in at the 2.35:1 ratio, I never zoom movies and I never plan on doing so.





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