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DLP: Still a great option if you have the room for a "Big Butt" TV.


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#1 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 16 2009 - 03:46 AM

Great News! My 1990 Pioneer Elite PRO-75 45" CRT Rear Projection Monitor died a few days ago,

What might seem like a sad event is actually quite nice for a number of reasons.  In 2005 when I purchased my HP MD5880 true 1080p DLP RPM (58") I gave my (then) 15 year old Pioneer Elite to my son.  He was happy to get it and it was still working (although a little dimmer and non-HD).  The other day the power supply finally gave up the ghost and my son is putting it to rest.  It certainly doesn't owe either of us a thing because it lasted a long, long time and provided countless hours of great entertainment - a large portion of that state-of-the-art viewing in the last decade of the 20th century.

So what's so great about this?  It gives me the opportunity to once again play the "Home Theater Rationalization Game!" It goes something like this:
  • My son's family could use an HD TV for the family room
  • My HP MD5880 would be a perfect hand-me-down
  • I could replace it with a new set if the conditions were right.
As it so happens, the conditions were more than right.  The HP serves as my "regular" TV in my HT for non-movie events when I'm not using my JVC 1080p FP.  That's for most shows and most video gaming.  I wanted something big (but not something as large, naturally, as my 110" projection screen).  Something in the 58-65" range seems just right.  Plasma and LCD are out of the running in this size range because the prices are still way up there and "big box" space is not a problem because it's located behind the drop down projection screen and I have over two feet of depth to work with.  I've always loved DLP in this size range and I realize that as of the new model year Mitsubishi is the only game in town (Samsung just dropped out as JVC, SONY and HP had done earlier.)

A little research uncovered something remarkable.  Mitsubishi has just unveiled their "837 Diamondvision" series of DLP monitors in various sizes (65", 73" and even 82")  You won't find plasmas and LCDs for comparable pricing in those sizes.  Not even close.  The "837" is almost the best that Mitsubishi has to offer.  Their premium LaserVue line is the top but the prices are still up there (~$7000 for a 65" set.)  Maybe next time. On the other hand the "837" line has been called the "DLP last stand" for traditional bulb sets.  The LaserVue sets use a laser light source, or "no bulb" at a great premium at this time.  And the 837 series has the latest TI DLP technology including the "Dark Chip," 6 color processing, 12 bit color ("deep color") 120Hz (a direct multiplier of 24Hz for smooth 1080p/24 viewing) and host of other features that allow for a lot of custom tweaking (ala ISF, etc.)  It even claims to be "3D ready" although that remains to be seen since a standard is not yet in place.)  In any event this is just a bunch of "Yada-yada-yada" until you hear the bottom line.  I had decided that the 65" version of this model line (the Mitsubishi WD-65837) was a perfect fit - literally. It takes up exactly the same space as my HP 58" unit, thanks to an extremely thin bezel and smart placement of internal speakers (unused by me) under, instead of on the side of the screen.  In other words - all picture, no wasted space.  With the optional Mitsubishi stand it has exactly the same geometry of my HP monitor and stand combination.  Slide one out and the other one in.  And what was the cost for this unit?  At PC Richard & Sons (a NY/NJ area chain): $1769.  Yes, you read that right - a state of the art 65" DLP set for under $1800!  Without a doubt, DLP is today's CRT in terms of the best bang for the buck as others clamor for higher priced big flat screen glamor - driving down the price of big box units.

It gets better. PC Richard & Sons offers a five year warranty for $399 that includes as many bulbs as you require over that time period.  I know that this is valid because my friend owns a now-discontinued JVC LCOS RPM and just had his bulb replaced at the two year mark by PC Richard.  Since a bulb assembly costs ~$200 this warranty pays for itself.  Inside, out of the box delivery and turn on service is a reasonable $50. And the set is being delivered tomorrow (one day after I purchased it.) They even recommended that I purchase the very sturdy Mitsubishi stand online since they don't carry it and thought it was better than the generic stands that they carry.  I'm a big believer in using the stand designed for such a big set and it came to $399 delivered from One Call in Washington State.

I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the technology progresses as prices drop. And once again I feed my HT addiction.

It never ends.

(Note: Besides sharing this little story with you, I'm going to use it as the basis of an article or Wiki Review once the unit is delivered, installed and put through its paces.  I just wanted to let you know in case you happen to be thinking about a new BIG screen monitor and weren't aware of this new line of DLPs - the last in a dying breed - which makes it perfect for some tremendous bargains.  I still love DLP and am not affected by rainbows, etc. in the least.)
Edited by RAF - 7/20/2009 at 04:39 pm GMT
RAF
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#2 of 30 OFFLINE   chuckg

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Posted July 20 2009 - 07:35 AM

Welcome to the big-a$$-DLP owners club!  That 120 Hz option probably quashes even the minor rainbows on my 60 Hz-at-best Y-657 set.
--ignore the man behind the curtain

#3 of 30 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 20 2009 - 08:16 AM

I'm loving my 61" Samsung DLP! I can't believe evryone is getting away from them. They are still the only affordable way to get anything over 52". Mine is the LED DLP. It seems that I got one of the last ones. I hope you enjoy your new set.
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#4 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 20 2009 - 05:03 PM

I'm enjoying the new 65" Mitsubishi (Diamond vision) WD-65837 very much.  I'm no stranger to DLP in both RPM and FP format.  I retired my DLP Runco (720p)  FP a couple of years ago to get a 3 chip JVC 1080p LCos(D-ILA) unit and I also had one of the first (and in my opinion best at the time) true 1080p HP MD5880n DLP RPMs since 2005.

One by one the manufacturers have dropped out of the DLP RPM market and Mitsubishi is the last manufacturer still standing.  With the introduction of two new lines for the 2009-2010 model year (the "837" Diamond vision/ISF friendly series) and the slightly less-featured "737" series they are committed for at least it little longer to the Big-ASS Big-screen world of DLP RPMs.  (Note that with the price reductions "Big-A$$" might be a misnomer economically.)  It's clear that Mits is going after the areas (65" and above) that are still in the $trato$phere in flat panels. The new lines START at 65" and also include a 73" and a 82" unit and the picture has all the latest DLP advances and it is superb.

Without a doubt, something to consider if "bang for your buck" is a prime directive.
RAF
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#5 of 30 OFFLINE   drobbins

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Posted July 20 2009 - 07:13 PM

I purchased a Mitsubishi 60" for under $1K last Christmas. I actually like it's 14" big butt. We have a larger living room and we like the traditional wall style entertainment center with bookcases on each side. Being thicker than 2" fills the space and brings the TV to the front of the cabinet. I may be old fashion, but in the living room, I like the TV to look more like a piece of furniture and not a picture on the wall. We have had a DLP projector since day 1 of our theater and are used the picture quality. I hope the rear projection will be around for a while


#6 of 30 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted July 21 2009 - 12:05 AM

Enjoy your new huge set, RAF. I am very glad we decided to upgrade to a Samsung 67" LED DLP last year. It's been a great set so far, and the timing couldn't have been better with Samsung soon thereafter getting out of the RPTV DLP market. We looked at the 73" Mitsubishi at the same time, but that set would have been a tight fit in the space we had, plus I liked the idea of no bulbs to replace in the Samsung. We also got a better deal on the Samsung, too, which helped with the decision.


#7 of 30 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 21 2009 - 01:26 AM

I love my 72" Samsung DLP set. At that size, plasma and LCD are ridiculously expensive and, IMO, don't produce an image of equal quality. (I continue to find plasma overrated.) I still can't believe Samsung abandoned the field, but the writing was on the wall two years ago when I bought my set.
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#8 of 30 OFFLINE   chuckg

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Posted July 21 2009 - 01:32 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF View Post

(Note that with the price reductions "Big-A$$" might be a misnomer economically.)  

 

right you are, I was just too timid to write "ass"   !!!

One wonders if the TV folks just aren't earning enough with the DLP RP sets?  If I go any bigger, it will likely be a projector.

 

--ignore the man behind the curtain

#9 of 30 OFFLINE   Brian McHale

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Posted July 21 2009 - 03:20 AM

I bought a 50" Samsung DLP last year (the smallest DLP available at the time and the largest size set I could fit in the allocated space). I've been ecstatic with how good the image is, not to mention how affordable it was.

My advice for people is that, if you need a really thin TV, look at plasma and LCD. However, if you can handle a set that's a little "less thin", take a look at DLP. You'll get a lot more TV for your money and, in many ways, you'll get a better picture.

Brian

#10 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 21 2009 - 04:02 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by drobbins ">

I purchased a Mitsubishi 60" for under $1K last Christmas. I actually like it's 14" big butt. We have a larger living room and we like the traditional wall style entertainment center with bookcases on each side. Being thicker than 2" fills the space and brings the TV to the front of the cabinet. I may be old fashion, but in the living room, I like the TV to look more like a piece of furniture and not a picture on the wall. We have had a DLP projector since day 1 of our theater and are used the picture quality. I hope the rear projection will be around for a while
 
My sentiments exactly.  I never was "rainbow" sensitive and the newer DLP technologies make it even harder to see for others so more people can enjoy DLP.  While I understand the "attraction" to some of hanging a TV on a wall I have to laugh at the people who end up placing a large flat screen set on a huge stand - taking up as much space or more in the room than a "big butt" monitor.  There might be some minimalist design preferences for a thin monitor centered on a large furniture base but to me other than that it's a waste of space.  If you end up using the space behind it to store things it's not only impractical but fugly.  ("Does this stand make my butt look fat?")

Here's thinking that someone should come up with a T shirt with a picture of an RPM on it and the label, 


RAF
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#11 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 21 2009 - 04:08 AM

I think that one of the reasons that huge DLP sets are still attractive to some (the new Mitsubishi Line starts at 65" and also includes 73" and 82" models) is that if you don't have control over ambient light you really can't consider FP - although I have to say that increased brightness in FPs (as well as cost reductions) have become very attractive in recent years.  There's also needing to deal with a separate screen for an FP. (Don't misunderstand - I have and embrace both technologies as well as LCD and Plasma.)
RAF
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#12 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 21 2009 - 04:11 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale ">

I bought a 50" Samsung DLP last year (the smallest DLP available at the time and the largest size set I could fit in the allocated space). I've been ecstatic with how good the image is, not to mention how affordable it was.

My advice for people is that, if you need a really thin TV, look at plasma and LCD. However, if you can handle a set that's a little "less thin", take a look at DLP. You'll get a lot more TV for your money and, in many ways, you'll get a better picture.
 
Bingo!

DLP is the CRT of the early 21st century.  Best bang for the buck if you can live with the baggage (literally!).  With CRTs it was weight.  With DLPs its all about the cabinet size.  Baby got back!  (couldn't resist).
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#13 of 30 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted July 21 2009 - 06:14 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF 

I think that one of the reasons that huge DLP sets are still attractive to some (the new Mitsubishi Line starts at 65" and also includes 73" and 82" models) is that if you don't have control over ambient light you really can't consider FP - although I have to say that increased brightness in FPs (as well as cost reductions) have become very attractive in recent years.  There's also needing to deal with a separate screen for an FP. (Don't misunderstand - I have and embrace both technologies as well as LCD and Plasma.)
This is exactly the reason I went with a RPTV again (my previous TV was a Toshiba 56" 1080i CRT RPTV). The home theater is in our family room, and a front projector would not work well due to lack of lighting control (plus it would be difficult to find space for a large screen).However, we sit about 11-12 feet away from the screen, so a 50-inch plasma or LCD just isn't as big as I would like.  A RPTV gives me the biggest screen for the buck for our environment.

I think the demise of RPTV's have happened for several reasons. (1) There is not as big a profit margin compared to plasma and LCD, (2) less showroom floor space is required to display flat panels, and (3) flat panels have been marketed as the "cool" technology (probably driven by points #1 and #2). I would guess that a large percentage of flat panel displays are not mounted on walls -- in fact, our 37" LCD display in the bedroom sits on an old microwave oven stand, and the 15" LCD in my wife's office is on a wire rack next to her desk.



#14 of 30 OFFLINE   Brian McHale

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Posted July 21 2009 - 07:29 AM

One of the reasons why DLP TVs don't sell well (IMO) is that they don't look good next to LCD TVs in showrooms. The LCDs are so bright and have much better off-axis viewing (at least the better ones do). I could easily see someone thinking that they don't compare without realizing they don't need the extra brightness and the viewing angles for DLP are plenty good enough.

Brian

#15 of 30 ONLINE   Dennis Nicholls

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Posted July 21 2009 - 07:53 AM

I'm even a greater Luddite.  I still have two 720P DLP sets:  a 55" Samsung RPTV and a 100" Optoma HD72 FP setup.

There really isn't that great a push for 1080P IMHO - broadcast HD is either 720P or 1080I.  DVDs upconverted aren't any better.  The only true 1080P content now comes from Blu-Ray discs, and how many of those do you have?

I'm just hoping that some company starts producing drop-in LED replacements for the old style projection bulbs.  Paying $200 every so often is a drag.
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#16 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 21 2009 - 09:28 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale ">

One of the reasons why DLP TVs don't sell well (IMO) is that they don't look good next to LCD TVs in showrooms. The LCDs are so bright and have much better off-axis viewing (at least the better ones do). I could easily see someone thinking that they don't compare without realizing they don't need the extra brightness and the viewing angles for DLP are plenty good enough.
 
I'll take this one step further.  When I went into the "showroom" (PCRichard & Sons in NYC area) to take a look at the new Mitsubishis in person I thought that it was a bit humorous that all the sets on the rather large floor (probably about 100 of them in many aisles) were flat screen models.  The DLPs were placed high on shelves surrounding the perimeter of the TV area (about ten feet above the floor) and if you stood under them looking up, they (naturally) looked extremely dim.  You literally had to go across the showroom floor (about 50 feet away) to get a good enough angle to get some idea of how good the DLP picture can look.  Certainly not a way to showcase a product.  Stores are obviously pushing the "cool" flat screens for all the reasons cited in this thread - but we know the real deal!

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#17 of 30 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted July 21 2009 - 09:44 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls ">

I'm even a greater Luddite.  I still have two 720P DLP sets:  a 55" Samsung RPTV and a 100" Optoma HD72 FP setup.

There really isn't that great a push for 1080P IMHO - broadcast HD is either 720P or 1080I.  DVDs upconverted aren't any better.  The only true 1080P content now comes from Blu-Ray discs, and how many of those do you have?

I'm just hoping that some company starts producing drop-in LED replacements for the old style projection bulbs.  Paying $200 every so often is a drag.
Your comments reminded me of something that I noticed and hadn't expected when connecting good 1080i content (Dish Network HD DVR) to my new Mitsubishi Diamond vision set.  When the set was delivered and while I was waiting for the Mits stand to show up via motor freight I had the 65" set sitting on the floor in another room where I have another HD-DVR.  When I connected it directly to the DLP set the 1080i picture looked quite good - especially HD content.  1080p content (from the PS3) looked, of course, spectacular.  After the stand arrived and I moved the entire unit into my HT (where it serves as my "regular" TV) I was astounded how much better the 1080i picture looked now.  I suddenly realized the reason.  Outside the HT I was feeding the 1080i Dish HD signal directly to the Mits and the TV was upconverting to 1080p.  Inside the HT the same Dish HD signal was fed first into my pre/pro (a Denon AVP-HDA1) where upscaling is applied and then sent directly to the set in 1080p form.  In fact I pass all content into the pre-pro first to output to the set with a single HDMI cable in 1080p form.  Obviously, the Denon does a better job handling 1080i than the Mitsubishi (which isn't bad but no match for the AVP).  That should surprise me, I guess, because the pre-pro costs over four times as much as the TV.  For the first time I really saw where some of my pre-pro bucks went! HD TV content on this DLP is amazing, especially when scaled to 1080p externally by state of the art Video processing.  This was even better than I had envisioned, and a great reason to consider external processing if your budget allows for this. 

 <img alt=


RAF
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#18 of 30 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted July 21 2009 - 11:47 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls 

There really isn't that great a push for 1080P IMHO - broadcast HD is either 720P or 1080I.  DVDs upconverted aren't any better.  The only true 1080P content now comes from Blu-Ray discs, and how many of those do you have?
 
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#19 of 30 OFFLINE   davidJames

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Posted July 27 2009 - 06:45 AM

I have to admit that I fell by the wayside for a short time. I owned a 57" Toshiba that I purchased in 2000, unfortunately had some problems with it and finally sold it in 2007. Bought a Panasonic 42" plasma, the picture quality was great, the build quality was great, accepted 1080p/24fps from my Samsung bd1500, all was great. At least so I thought! What I soon learned is that once your use to "Home Theater" there is no going back. The quality of my setup was excellent, the sound was super, (Onkyo 605, Infinity beta50 system) but something was missing?
      The truth is I was once again "watching TV" not experiencing movies as I once had. The bigger than life picture was gone, the overwhelming size was no more, it was well, boring! I tried to just focus on the movie content, the story, the directors vision, but it was all to no avail!
    Yes my friends, family and neighbors all thought I finally got some sense and got a TV that fit better in my living room, all was supposed to be right, then why was I bored?
    One day while I was contemplating the mysteries of the universe, he he, I realized that I had a terminal condition of  hometheateritius.I could no longer be satisfied with anything less than 57" of Big Screen TV in fact the bigger the better! Trowing caution to the wind I ran out or should I say went to Amazon.com and searched Big Screen TVs. I found A 65" Mits 65736 model, salvation was just a click away.
   Needless to say I purchased the 65" behemoth and have been in home theater heaven ever since.
The Panasonic is still doing a great job ( an excellent TV) but in our bedroom!  Our living room is once again a "Home Theater" just the way we like it.
Moral of story, big is better, at least when home theater is involved. As an added bonus the Mitsu wasn't that much more in price than our Pany plasma.


#20 of 30 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 27 2009 - 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls ">

There really isn't that great a push for 1080P IMHO - broadcast HD is either 720P or 1080I.  DVDs upconverted aren't any better.  The only true 1080P content now comes from Blu-Ray discs, and how many of those do you have?

I'm just hoping that some company starts producing drop-in LED replacements for the old style projection bulbs.  Paying $200 every so often is a drag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield 
 
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