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Please HELP what is the best subwoofer???


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#1 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 11 2008 - 04:34 PM

I am needing some advice on subwoofers and I figured what better place to ask about them then a forum dedicated to home theater. I purchased the Definitive Technologies Supercube 1 it's a good sub but it doesn't seem to really deliver the "punch" or the consistent amount of floor shaking SPL I'm looking for. I was hopeing someone would be kind enough to give me there advice on an earthshaking subwoofer in the price range of $3,000.00 or below I have been thinking about the Trinity series subs but I figured before I drop that kind of money I would try to get some advice so any input would be greatly appreciated The sub will ONLY be used for watching dvd movies no music or anything like that so take that into consideration. Thanks to everyone.

PS I guess My main question is what subwoofers can outperform the Definitve Technologies Supercube Trinity Subwoofer? I have been told that is the premier powered sub on the market today within an average joe's price range of a few thousand dollars. Would the top of the line SVS subs beat the Trinity or are there other powered subs out on the market that would outperform the Definitive Trinity with its dual 14" woofers is it possible to get more sound and SPL from a single speaker cabinet???????

#2 of 35 OFFLINE   brandonchenry

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Posted January 11 2008 - 05:23 PM

SVS has the very best subs. Especially for the money

#3 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 11 2008 - 05:36 PM

Great thank you. Would anyone know a good place to research and buy SVS subwoofers?

#4 of 35 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted January 11 2008 - 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblee772269
Great thank you. Would anyone know a good place to research and buy SVS subwoofers?
SVS has thier own website. You can research thier products and buy from there as well. You may be able to find them sold elsewhere for less, but, I'm not sure where to look for them outside thier own website.
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#5 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 11 2008 - 08:11 PM

Ok great and thank you greatly as well but in your opinion can the SVS premeir subwoofer they carry outshine the Definitive Trinity in performance and sound I checked and they sell single woofer units where the Trinity carrys dual 14" active and quad passive radiators I do not know if that makes a difference or not due to I'm very new to all of this but do you think or anyone think that the SVS top of the line sub can do more than the definitive?????

#6 of 35 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted January 11 2008 - 09:10 PM

SVS sells single subwoofer enclosures and dual sub systems too. Give Ron, Tom or Erik an email or call at SVS. Tell them what you are looking for. What subwoofers you have looked at. The size of room you have. What you want the sub for ie: mostly music, mostly movies, etc. They will give you the best bang for your buck for your situation. They will not oversell you and immediately steer you towards their higher end models. Ask them how it would compare to the Def Tech sub. They will be honest with you and if they think the Def Tech is a better buy they will tell you so.

Ron and Tom run a class operation that doesn't stop after they sell you the sub. They will work with you to give you the best choice for your situation and then follow up and take care of any post sales problems you might have. The bottom line is you are going to find it hard to find a better sub for the money that also gives you top notch customer service on top of all of that.

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#7 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 11 2008 - 10:21 PM

Thanks for all your fast replys everybody I am very very greatful I will contact SVS on Monday since I'm sure there closed on the weekend. I was also kind of hopeing that people that owned the different types of subwoofers could give me there inputs on the units they own honestly and this may sound silly but all I use my HT for is strictly movies and I want the most ear shattering bass that a sub can put out I'm talking (figurativly of course) enough to blow the windows out of my house lol. The room I'm putting this in is about 20'x20' not large compaired to most but even if its over the top stupid amount of bass then I would be very happy the HT market has gotten so advanced and so confusing anymore I am totaly lost when it comes to the high end equipment anymore. I see you are one of the owners of the site if I may ask if cost was not a concern for you and you wanted a rediculous amount of bass from your movies what would you personally buy, and what type of sub do you run on your system? Thanks again everyone I would be lost without this great forum to help me.

#8 of 35 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 12 2008 - 12:44 AM

If you search through the archives you can find the old postings where a guy named Tom V. helped Ron S. build his first subwoofer. Those guys became friends and decided to start building subwoofers to sell. There are reviews of SVS subs all over this forum. Oth oldest I think reviews the sub with serial number 2. Their driver designer is probably the best in the business. He was formerly at TC Sounds (they used to supply SVS with their drivers) but went to SVS when they took their driver building in house.

SVS does have it's downsides though. They are limited in size because of storage and shipping. If you read about Hoffman's Iron Law of subwoofers, you will understand the tradeoffs they have to make. Same with your tiny Def Tech. You can't cheat physics.

It sounds like you need a DIY sub. Something like this. You have to scroll down a past the pictures to see the review but it seems to match what you want. I think the quote "Watching transformers is now an exercise in brutality" sums it up best. If that design isn't what you want, there are hundreds (thousands?) of designs to choose from.

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#9 of 35 OFFLINE   Brian Serene

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Posted January 12 2008 - 03:08 AM

There are several subwoofers that are better performers than the Def Tech Trinity. The Epik Conquest for $1,600 (plus shipping ?), is a monster performer. It is pretty large, and has one 18 inch driver, and a 1,000 watt amplifier.

If you can deal with something even bigger, the Ed A7-900 has two 18 inch drivers, and 1,300 watts. It costs $2,200.

These subwoofers are sold internet direct.

If you are interested, I can post links to these subwoofers.

The Epik Conquest got a great review by Tom Nousaine.

#10 of 35 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted January 12 2008 - 04:10 AM

Rich, one very important thing is that subs require careful and often extensive calibration an careful placement. Bad incorporation will make any sub perform poorly. Also, if you are looking for constant, "thudding" bass, you actually don't want a "good" sub. You just want a loud, cheap one.

One SVS PB 13 Ultra or one PB 12 Plus/2 (currently on closeout) will easily energize a 20x20 room for less than 1/2 the budget you are in. Or, get two for sick overkill.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#11 of 35 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 12 2008 - 05:15 AM

Since calibration was mentioned, let me expand on it. With a budget like yours, you will be selling yourself short by not doing it. It's like buying a Ferrari and getting tires for it at Wal-Mart.

I use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer for my subwoofer EQ. I manually measured the sub's response in the room and simulated the adjustments in a spreadsheet. I then took those adjustments and manually entered them into the BFD. With a PC (laptop and USB sound card), a nice mic and Room EQ Wizard software you can measure your room in seconds and make changes to the BFD in real time. In fact, you can easily set up multiple responses. One for action movies, one for music and one for demos (a little extra bass). Velodyne, SVS, AV123 and DIY Cable all have stand alone bass EQ modules that don't need a PC. They are a little limited in the number of memories but the learning curve on them is a lot less also.

-Robert

#12 of 35 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted January 12 2008 - 05:58 AM

What Brian says about calibration is very true -- especially in a square room like yours. If I were in your shoes I think I would order 2 PB12-Plus/2's. That will give you 4 12" drivers in two enclosures. Given their current closeout price you could get two plus the BFD for under your stated budget of $3000.

#13 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 12 2008 - 06:28 AM

Wow now I Know why people say this is the best forum for HT help. THANK YOU ALL you've all told me many many things that noob like myself needs to know so the general concensus is either the SVS or the DIY brand subs I know it must be frustraiting to have to try and explain all of this to someone but I'm very appreciative that you guys took the time I did some research and was thinking about trying the SVS PB Ultra-13 with the proper setup and calibration do you all think that could outperform the Trinity? I know I must ask a ton of stupid questions but this is all so confusing anymore not like the old days where it was simple lol. I'm going to start researching today as best I can on the SVS and the DIY products but any and all input is highly wanted thanks again and if anyone has any other advice or opinions on the matter feel free to post away thank you all!!!!!!

#14 of 35 OFFLINE   mayhem13

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Posted January 12 2008 - 07:22 AM

JL Audio Fathom is a Monster of a Sub as well. Not sure of it's street price but i would take a listen before purchasing. It's big brother gotham has produced record setting spl's and extremely low Hz.

#15 of 35 OFFLINE   brandonchenry

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Posted January 12 2008 - 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SethH
What Brian says about calibration is very true -- especially in a square room like yours. If I were in your shoes I think I would order 2 PB12-Plus/2's. That will give you 4 12" drivers in two enclosures. Given their current closeout price you could get two plus the BFD for under your stated budget of $3000.


That would be enough bass for the loudest playback desired. I would reccomend that if you buy two subs that you place them side by side to decrease the chance that they cancle themselves out at any locations in your room. I saw a new product from SVS at CES 2008. It is the Audyssey Sub-EQ. The technology is nothing less than amazing. It can almost completely flaten your sub response, and make two subs play friendly together from any locations in your room. Not only that, but you can take up to 32 readings around your room to insure that you have full bass potential in all possable listening spots.
Get a hold of Ron Stimpson from SVS. He will do you right.

#16 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 12 2008 - 03:55 PM

Thank you all again for all the help in responce to me wanting a "cheap" one I guess I misworded some of my statements I dont want bass all the time but take Transformers for instance when they walk I want the floor and walls to shake but with a clean sound or when an explosion happens I want my neighbors to hear it lol. On the subject of calibration I understand the concept of it but have no idea on how to or even where to start with something like that. I guess the best thing I can do is list my HT components and see if maybe I'm doing something wrong or I have the wrong equipment my HT setup is as follows.

Hitachi 50" Ultravision Directors Series Plasma TV
Denon AVR-4308CI Reciever
Klipsh RF-83 Home Theater Speaker System
Definitive Tech Supercube Series 1 Subwoofer
Then a second setup of an older Yamaha Reciever and older JBL floorstanding speakers for the front & back then a Polk audio center channel
I just feel that the supercube isn't able to keep up with the upper levels of sound the RD-12D subwoofer that came with the Klipsh package is good but it is not enough for me. I guess am I stupid with wanting more bass out of my system? lol If anyone has any suggestions or feels kind enough to try and help a noob out with his setup I would greatly appreciate it (if its ok to post this here my email is) ashnod52@aol.com any advice will be appreciated feel free to email me anytime with comments or suggestions thanks again to all I hope to figure my problem out asap have a good one everyone.

#17 of 35 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted January 12 2008 - 04:29 PM

Rich:

Like myself and others in this thread have suggested give Ron a call at SVS. Their new PB13 ultra sub with the Audyssey Sub-EQ is a killer. You have the Audyssey circuit in your Denon so you know how good it is.

For what you are wanting to do you are going to be so impressed with the single 13 inch sub in your system that you are going to just sit there with a smile on your face as it makes your heart skip a few beats.

Another great suggestion is getting one of the killer PB 12 Plus/2 units that are on closeout. It is going to rock your room with clean bass and at the same time save you same money which you could use to get some more titles to show off you system to your friends.

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#18 of 35 OFFLINE   Boblee772269

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Posted January 12 2008 - 04:52 PM

Great it sounds like the SVS is the way to go but what about the JL Audio Fathom suggested as well how does that measure up to the top of the line SVS subs? Also would it be better to get 2 of the PB12 plus 2's or 1 of the PB13 Ultra? One more question will any or all of these beat the Definitive Tech Supercube 1 in preformace?

#19 of 35 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted January 12 2008 - 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13
It's big brother gotham has produced record setting spl's and extremely low Hz.
Could you please link to these home SPL competitions? I've been frequenting this and other forums for years and never heard of such a thing. You wouldn't happen to work in the JL Audio marketing department?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblee772269
One more question will any or all of these beat the Definitive Tech Supercube 1 in preformace?
Please read the link earlier to Hoffman's Iron Law. Basically, the larger the box, the more efficient and the lower a sub will play. Also, ported subs have a huge advantage over sealed subs. Most people have never heard a properly constructed ported sub because very few exist in the retail market. Tom and Ron started with ported subs in the DIY section before going pro with them. They do it right.

Epik Subwoofers is another company that is building ported subs correctly. Chad, the owner, is a member of this site and Scott, the driver designer, is one of the best in the business. In fact, Scott's company used to supply SVS with some drivers.

If you want to compare subs there is a section of another forum where a member has been doing it for quite a while. Identical tests in the same scenario so that the playing field is even. You can easily see output SPLs and usable extension from dozens of subs including some metioned earlier in this thread. link

Or you can copy this guy and have all the bass you need.

-Robert

#20 of 35 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted January 12 2008 - 11:55 PM

Also would it be better to get 2 of the PB12 plus 2's or 1 of the PB13 Ultra?


That depends on your definition of better. The PB-13 is going to give you the best sound quality and will probably be more than enough to fill your room -- it will blow your SuperCube I away. The 2x PB12-Plus/2 would have more output (I believe) than the PB13, but would not have the same sound quality -- this option would still blow away your SuperCube I.


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