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1080p Front Projectors

CEDIA 2005-2007

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108 replies to this topic

#1 of 109 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted September 08 2006 - 03:49 AM

As a former front projector owner, this is the area where my highest interest is....the upcoming 1080p projector market. Rumors have been going strong about 1080p units from Panasonic, Optoma, & Mitsubishi. InFocus will probably have one as well.

Any tidbits you can throw us in this more affordable market would be GREAT. The Sony "Pearl" also looks very promising....

Thanks and have a great time. Posted Image

#2 of 109 OFFLINE   CaseyL

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Posted September 08 2006 - 04:09 AM

I know for a fact that Runco will be showing 1080p on many of their projector lines including their affordable line.

#3 of 109 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted September 08 2006 - 12:41 PM

I am sure the Marantz 1080p projector will be in many venues. It will definitely be in the Datacolor Training - Lion AV classroom!!!

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#4 of 109 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 09 2006 - 06:49 AM

I know there will be multiple 1 and three chip 1080P projectors. THe DLP 1080Ps will be full resolution (no wobbulation).

#5 of 109 OFFLINE   Robert_Zohn

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Posted September 09 2006 - 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen
I am sure the Marantz 1080p projector will be in many venues. It will definitely be in the Datacolor Training - Lion AV classroom!!!

The HD DVD presentation truck is equipped with Marantz's new 1080p projector.

See you at CEDIA.

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#6 of 109 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 13 2006 - 02:51 PM

Tim (and others),

SONY blew the socks off of the 1080p FP world this afternoon at their press conference during CEDIA 2006. They formally announced their new VPL-VW50 "Pearl" unit. We will shortly provide some great detail and are working on some exclusive video thanks to Ron and Parker so watch the announcements section of the forum.

Let me just say:

1080p resolution
2 1080p HDMI inputs with 24fps support!
3 chip SXRD (LCoS) technology

and (hold onto your hats!)

$4995

Much more to follow.
RAF
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#7 of 109 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted September 13 2006 - 06:01 PM

Just posted a response Robert in your other post...but FANTASTIC news. Unreal. thanks again for your efforts, and to Ron & Parker as well. Posted Image

#8 of 109 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 13 2006 - 06:10 PM

We have some pics that will be up as soon as Parker can put them in the correct directory (10 hours or so). We won't actually see it in action until tomorrow (Thurs) or Friday.

#9 of 109 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 14 2006 - 12:26 AM

The VPL-VW50 is officially on the SonyStyle site HERE.

Shipping in October.

Film at Eleven (last night)
Posted Image

Seriously, as Adam said we hope to have some more pictures posted later today. We'll also be examining the projector up close and personal on the floor of the show and may have some more video and pictorial surprises as well as some more comments.

Stay tuned...
RAF
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#10 of 109 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 14 2006 - 10:29 AM

Rumor has it JVC also has a 1080P three chip at the same price point.

#11 of 109 OFFLINE   Chris S

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Posted September 14 2006 - 03:17 PM

Is the unit really as big as it looks? If so that thing definitely won't fit on a shelf. But damn is that price tempting! Posted Image
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#12 of 109 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 14 2006 - 07:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
Is the unit really as big as it looks? If so that thing definitely won't fit on a shelf. But damn is that price tempting! Posted Image

No, the VW50 looks bigger in the pictures than it does in person. I owned Sony's VPL-VW10HT and it's definitely smaller than that unit. Interestingly, the VPL-VW50 uses the same Sony ceiling mount as my former VPL-VW10HT so if I get a VW50 I'm all set for that one.

Although I didn't see them side by side, I think the VW50 is about the same size as my Runco CL-710.

I'd say more (lots of stuff to share) but it's 1:30 and we just got back from a digital presentation of Superman Returns in a local theater, sponsored by TI (outstanding!) I'm going to try to catch up tomorrow.
RAF
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#13 of 109 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted September 15 2006 - 02:53 AM

More info on front projectors....

Projector Central.com:

Quote:
Panasonic has announced the PT-AX100U, the next generation projector to replace the popular AE900. The AX100U is a native 1280x720 LCD projector with 6000:1 contrast and up to 2000 ANSI lumens of brightness. It has the capability to dynamically reconfigure itself to optimize image quality in any ambient light conditions. It retains the 2.0x zoom range, lens shift, and Smooth Screen technology for pixel-free imagery that have been key features of the earlier AE700 and AE900. In addition, based upon our preliminary look at it, black level and image sharpness are substantially improved. The AX100U carries an MSRP of $2,999, and street prices much lower than that. We expect it to be one of the hot sellers of the fall season.

Today, Mitsubishi will announce the first native 1920x1080p projector to drop below the magic $5,000 price point. The model is the HC5000BL. It features long-life inorganic LCD panels and carries a contrast rating of 10,000:1. This is a loaded unit with powered lens shift, powered 1.6x zoom range, and a 5000-hour lamp life in low lamp mode. The retail price is a remarkable $4,495. Never has anyone been able to buy this much for this little.

There will be numerous announcements in the next day or two including an aggressively priced 1920x1080p product from Panasonic. We will be reporting the full array of products on this site as we gather the data and are able to compile it for you

from ProjectorReviews.com:

Quote:
Congratulations to Sony, for setting the low price point for a 1080p projector, and a 3 chip LCOS (SXRD) to boot.

For those not familiar with LCOS, it sort of combines elements of DLP and LCD - it is actually a reflective (reflects light off of the panels) LCD, whereas traditional LCDs are transmissive (light passes through them). DLP is also a reflective technology.

Overall, the biggest advantage of SXRD and other LCOS projectors is that the pixel structure is much less visible than DLP, which in turn is less visible than traditional LCD. On the downside, the technology cannot match the high contrast ratios of DLP. Sony, however, like most LCD home theater projector manufacturers, uses a number of dynamic technologies (some call them "AI" for artificial intelligence), to enhance the contrast ratio dramatically. There are times when the image cannot be effectively enhanced (mix of very bright and very dark), but overall, such technologies are very effective, and even some of the higher end DLP projectors use them (such as my BenQ). Bottom line, I can't wait to review the new Sony VPL-W50, and see if it can blow away my BenQ (which a year ago sold for about $8000 and now sells typically for under $3999.)

On other notes, Sharp also announced a 1080p projector, more on that later. Tommorrow is my first full day at the show, and will be seeing the new Panasonic PT-AX100U their much brighter replacement for their best selling PT-AE900u. By the way, I only had list pricing from Panasonic's press release on the PT-AX100U ($2999). Today I was able to confirm that MAP has been set at $1999, which means that $1999 should pretty much be the high price from online Panasonic resellers.


Posted Image

#14 of 109 OFFLINE   Chris S

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Posted September 15 2006 - 04:29 AM

Quote:
Today, Mitsubishi will announce the first native 1920x1080p projector to drop below the magic $5,000 price point. The model is the HC5000BL. It features long-life inorganic LCD panels and carries a contrast rating of 10,000:1. This is a loaded unit with powered lens shift, powered 1.6x zoom range, and a 5000-hour lamp life in low lamp mode. The retail price is a remarkable $4,495. Never has anyone been able to buy this much for this little.

Mits is already undercutting the Sony Pearl in price... this is definitely good news! I was afraid competition in the 1080p market was going to be too light this year to warrant any of the manufacturers dropping their prices much below MSRP but it looks like I could be wrong. I am really ready to pull the trigger on a new 720p projector but may hold off until next summer to see how this plays out. *cringes from upgradits pains*
DVD & Blu-ray - It's all about the movies!

#15 of 109 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 15 2006 - 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
Mits is already undercutting the Sony Pearl in price... this is definitely good news! I was afraid competition in the 1080p market was going to be too light this year to warrant any of the manufacturers dropping their prices much below MSRP but it looks like I could be wrong. I am really ready to pull the trigger on a new 720p projector but may hold off until next summer to see how this plays out. *cringes from upgradits pains*

Yes, it is definitely good news that Sony has some competition in the newly-created "under $5000 1080p" projection market. Now it becomes a matter of personal preference. On a personal note, today I got to see the Sony Pearl in action at CEDIA showing Blu-ray 1080p content. I have to say that this projector is the real deal and will be a hard act to follow in the 3 chip 1080p market. Here's where personal preferences will begin to come into the picture (LCoS, LCD, DLP, etc.) I find it hard to believe that 3 chip DLPs will be able to compete at the under $5K price point because of the current cost of the components. I had an LCD projector (granted, 720p and not 1080p - the venerable Sony VPL-VW10HT) and it couldn't in my estimation hold a candle to LCoS, although it was very nice.

Interestingly, the VPL-VW50 (LCoS) shares the same mount with my former VPL-VW10HT (LCD) so I'm already set to go on that score.

I'll try to get a look at the Mitsubishi and others.
RAF
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#16 of 109 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 16 2006 - 01:05 AM

RAF and I looked briefly at the Mits. The problem is the screen is mounted 10 feet off the floor, so it's hard to get a real good look at it. I know it's not 1080P, but we saw the new Infocus IN78EX (720p DLP darkchip 3) and it looked GREAT. This morning RAF and I are going to a shootout between a new unannounced JVC (est price 6999) and a Sony Ruby.

#17 of 109 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 16 2006 - 01:10 AM

On a side note Ron, RAF and I went to a booth where a manufacturer was showing their DLP 1080i 1 chip, 3 chip, 720 1 chip and 3 chip side by side at the same time showing the same source. Granted we were approx 15 feet away and sitting off to the side eye level with the three chip screens with the one chip screens up above. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't see a difference...I'm going to blame that on the fact to the setup, but it's the only time I've seen all four at once and if you had asked me to identify them I wouldn't have been able to point out which was which they were that close.

#18 of 109 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted September 16 2006 - 05:25 AM

lol, that's the first time i've read runco and affordable in the same sentence =^).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyL
I know for a fact that Runco will be showing 1080p on many of their projector lines including their affordable line.


#19 of 109 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted September 16 2006 - 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger
lol, that's the first time i've read runco and affordable in the same sentence =^).

Good point, YiFeng. I find it hard to justify over $20,000 for just about any FP from this point forward no matter what they might tell you if it is aimed for the home market. Most of the mega-models we saw from Runco and others (some upwards of $265,000) are capable of projecting the images in 1000 seat theaters - and you know what? The picture isn't any better than what is achievable in your home with today's technology. It's just bigger and brighter (to maintain screen brightness at football field throw lengths.)

The days of having to go to a "real" theater to see the movie in the way it was intended, picture-wise, is definitely at an end. One can make a very creditable case for attending a movie theater to have the "shared audience experience" but in terms of the image the cinemas no longer have the edge. In fact, in some cases you could argue that a Home Theater probably has a better picture than the local 24 plex. This is especially true in those cases where the FP accepts a 1080p/24fps signal so that it can project a film-like image from film original sources.

Personally, After observing the projectors (released and soon to be released) this week at CEDIA I would find it hard to justify much over $5,000 (street) for any FP that meets my requirements for an excellent movie experience, but I will defer to the higher price points (up to, maybe, $15-20K) for those who insist that automated anamorphic lenses and special bulbs and optics are essential to meet their own Home Theater requirements. It's just a not a must for me. And, as I stated before, you can get an excellent picture (1 chip DLP and similar) for even under $1K right now so the serious HT experience has opened to many, many more people than just a short time ago.

Much more to follow.
RAF
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#20 of 109 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted September 16 2006 - 11:43 AM

well, the thing about runco's FP is you must have the large mansion to compliment the FP. if you can afford the mansion, you can afford the FP. essentially, the sizes of the rooms are really cinema-sized/commercial applications and NOT home living sizes. the screens are measured in foot (like 25-50 ft diagonal) and you can buy from the same supplier commercial theater owners buy from Posted Image. 25' is 300" diagonal and under. that's about the limitations of most homeowner's real estate (and what they afford) and upper limits of under $5k projectors. i think you're going to run out of house before you require such a bright FP like those made by runco.

i'm just happy that $1,000-5,000 FP 1080p are finally in sight. if you check my other posts, i thought i was going to have to wait another 10-15 years... now $1,000-3,000 1080p FP is finally in sight given 5 more years.


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