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Lord of the Rings Extended vs. Theatrical


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#41 of 75 OFFLINE   MatthewLouwrens

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Posted June 30 2006 - 12:11 PM

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I took it one step further--you also cut the pillowfight sequence. Go from Frodo being flown over what's left of Mordor, unconscious, fade to black--and fade in at Aragorn's coronation. The inference is that Frodo and Sam DID die after "Here at the end of all things" and lends a wistful, bittersweet tone to the celebration that I think would be welcomed--and then when you SEE all 4 hobbits, you're overjoyed and elated that they DID live. And then when he says "you bow to no one?" floodgates from the tearducts.
That's actually not a bad idea. I disagree about cutting the Grey Havens (it's absolutely essential to show the consequences for Frodo of his journey), but you make a good case for the film working without the pillow fight. I dislike that scene for its execution, but did think it was necessary. You've just convinced me otherwise.
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#42 of 75 OFFLINE   Jack _Webster

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Posted June 30 2006 - 12:41 PM

The reunion scene is crucial. The emotion displayed in that scene (especially when Frodo sees Sam) is second to none. After the heartbreaking terror of the Mount Doom sequence, I was smiling ear to ear during this scene. As a matter of fact, not a second of the 20 minute denouement could be cut, imo. It's all perfect.

#43 of 75 ONLINE   Mark-P

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Posted June 30 2006 - 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
He was required to keep them under a certain time limit (3 hours, IIRC) in order to allow a certain number of viewings per screen per day. He knew up front that he'd be able to re-cut them for DVD however he liked.

I don't believe that is true. Undoubtedly the studio would have pressured him to keep the running times down, but I don't think there was a requirement. And anyway ROTK T.E. was well over three hours anyway.

I've completely watched all the extras on the extended 4-disc DVD sets (fascinating stuff) and Peter Jackson considers the theatrical versions to be the definitive cuts of the films in terms of storytelling and pacing.

The extended versions were planned at the outset right alongside the theatrical versions (not an afterthought) and were intended as more fleshed out versions that would be a gift for the true fans.

My own opinion? Pacing be damned, because the richness of the extended cuts makes it all the more immersive and I prefer the slower book-like pace.

#44 of 75 OFFLINE   Jack _Webster

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Posted June 30 2006 - 02:06 PM

"I am very happy with the way the extended cut DVDs are now fleshing out the trilogy. This one I think was about 43 minutes longer than the theatrical version, and, you know, I think the extra material that's in here - particularly things like Merry and Pippin in Fangorn and the Ent stuff - it helps, ultimately, create a trilogy which is much more detailed and has the moments of - has the pacing that you kind of - you want it to be, as a complete story - but it can't be when you're sort of facing having to make a theatrical film once a year that kind of has a momentum and a pace that attracts people to the cinema."

- - - Peter Jackson, the Director/Writer commentary for TTT:EE

#45 of 75 OFFLINE   Elijah Sullivan

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Posted June 30 2006 - 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Mark-P
I don't believe that is true. Undoubtedly the studio would have pressured him to keep the running times down, but I don't think there was a requirement.

Believe it. The contract reads 120 minutes for the theatrical cuts, and the extended cut wasn't guaranteed until early 2002, when Fellowship was clearly a major hit. The reason the films are all around three hours in the theaters is due to the execs at New Line liking the 2:52 Fellowship cut very much and agreeing to release it.

#46 of 75 ONLINE   TravisR

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Posted June 30 2006 - 02:57 PM

I could be wrong but don't the theatrical cuts of the first two run 2:59:59 or very close to that?

#47 of 75 OFFLINE   Elijah Sullivan

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Posted June 30 2006 - 03:16 PM

Yes - Fellowship runs that length with credits, and Two Towers does without credits. I think.

#48 of 75 OFFLINE   EnricoE

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Posted July 02 2006 - 10:58 AM

here is copy&paste from a thread i've made at movie-list.com for the biggest problem i've had in the ee of return of the king ....


after seeing both versions of rotk, i always had one big problem. the extended edition has two scenes that should've not included into it. the problem with these scenes is that they kill the surprise. the scenes i'm talking about are
after aragon ask the dead army "what say you". when our 3 heroes leave the cave and look down to the river, they see the pirates coming and aragon falls on his knees. to that point the scene is perfect, as it shows that hope is lost and gondor will fall. but then peter jackson made the first mistake: he showed us that the king of the dead will fight. the second mistake comes about 7min later, when we see our 3 heroes standing on the beach and tell the pirates to surrender. these two scenes kill the "lost hope" theme and the surprise later on. the surprise is when the boats are coming into the harbor and the orks just waiting for the pirates but our heroes jump out instead.

i made the spoiler tags for those who hadn't seen the movie. if you haven't seen it, don't watch the clip below Posted Image

i made a little clip for the scene how it should've been like, at least from the editing point. the sound cut is to obvious. anyway, you get the idea.

Posted Image

480x270 - 4.5 MB

what do you guys think?

#49 of 75 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted July 03 2006 - 06:52 AM

[quote=EnricoE]here is copy&paste from a thread i've made at movie-list.com for the biggest problem i've had in the ee of return of the king ....


after seeing both versions of rotk, i always had one big problem. the extended edition has two scenes that should've not included into it. the problem with these scenes is that they kill the surprise. the scenes i'm talking about are
after aragon ask the dead army "what say you". when our 3 heroes leave the cave and look down to the river, they see the pirates coming and aragon falls on his knees. to that point the scene is perfect, as it shows that hope is lost and gondor will fall. but then peter jackson made the first mistake: he showed us that the king of the dead will fight. the second mistake comes about 7min later, when we see our 3 heroes standing on the beach and tell the pirates to surrender. these two scenes kill the "lost hope" theme and the surprise later on. the surprise is when the boats are coming into the harbor and the orks just waiting for the pirates but our heroes jump out instead.

i made the spoiler tags for those who hadn't seen the movie. if you haven't seen it, don't watch the clip below Posted Image

i made a little clip for the scene how it should've been like, at least from the editing point. the sound cut is to obvious. anyway, you get the idea.



I continue to be baffled why people want this so called "surprise" this was my biggest problem with the Theatrical Version of ROTK. It only could have surprised non book readers but even then, I mean come on did you really think Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas would be dumb enough to take on that huge army at Minas Tirith alone. It was only obvious that the Undead army was there and even if you somehow were still surprised you would never be surpised when you watched it again. I felt cheated and it made the scene feel like a cop-out ending to the battle because there was no other way for them to win when they didn't show the full scene of what was happening. I kept saying wait a minute: When did they join and when did they take over the ships. The continuity that the book had and the film had to that point was ruined by this so called "surprise". Thankfully the EE corrects this.
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#50 of 75 OFFLINE   Andy Sheets

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Posted July 03 2006 - 07:46 AM

I can't really watch the TEs anymore because they just feel too hyperactive to me. I mean, they're good movies and if we'd never gotten the EEs I'd be very happy but the EEs smooth out the pacing and add a lot of very important characterization and plotting. When I watch the FOTR:EE, it's a very satisfying experience with just the right amount of time between action scenes and Jackson's helicopter flyovers; when I watch TE, it feels too much like sprinting for an entire marathon...leaves me breathless and not in a good way.

#51 of 75 OFFLINE   Legairre

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Posted July 03 2006 - 01:21 PM

I'll take the EE of all three, especially TTT. TTT in it's TE is rushed and their seems to be a rush to the doom and gloom of Helms deep at the end of the film. The EE slows the pace to a point where it doesn't seem that there's a hurry to face death.

#52 of 75 OFFLINE   Bob_S.

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Posted July 03 2006 - 06:10 PM

I've tried and tried, but can't seem to get through the books. After FOTR came out, I ran to my nearest book store and bought the hard bound trilogy set. i managed to work my way throught FOTR but could only get half way through TTT, just too much detail. Thank God for PJ, he brought Middle Earth to life for me. Watching FOTR in the theater was incredible and I remember going to Burger King and getting my FOTR glowing glass goblet!

I now own both LOTR versions and will always watch the EE's. Why? Mainly because I want to see as much about my heroes and Middle Earth as possible. FOTR EE is my favorite of the 3. One of my favorite scenes of the whole trilogy is "the passing of the elves". It's just magical with the music and all, and when Sam says " I don't know why, but it makes me sad". With out the EE, I never would have seen it. My absolute favorite scene is in ROTK when Aragorn says "My friends, you bow to no one." Like what some one else said, I just lost it. My favorite trilogy of all-time.

Oh, and whenever I need a LOTR fix and don't want to see the whole movie, I'll just put in the super trailer.

#53 of 75 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted July 04 2006 - 05:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_S.
I've tried and tried, but can't seem to get through the books. After FOTR came out, I ran to my nearest book store and bought the hard bound trilogy set. i managed to work my way throught FOTR but could only get half way through TTT, just too much detail. Thank God for PJ, he brought Middle Earth to life for me....

I now own both LOTR versions and will always watch the EE's. Why? Mainly because I want to see as much about my heroes and Middle Earth as possible. ... My absolute favorite scene is in ROTK when Aragorn says "My friends, you bow to no one." Like what some one else said, I just lost it. My favorite trilogy of all-time.

Oh, and whenever I need a LOTR fix and don't want to see the whole movie, I'll just put in the super trailer.

I could not agree more....Posted Image
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#54 of 75 OFFLINE   John Alderson

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Posted July 04 2006 - 11:46 AM

I believe the TE's flow better as films, but there are lots of little LOTR bits that I love about the EE's (there are also some cringe inducing moments in them though). It pretty much depends on my mood as to which one I watch.

I also agree about the dead army being beat to death (ha!) in the EE... not so much for the surprise factor, but there are some pretty bad scenes there (especially with Peter Jackson on the boat). They went way too far with the dead army in the film, in the books


they didn't do anything at Minas Tirith, they only helped defeat the black fleet. It was Rohan (and the defeat of the witch king) who saved Minas Tirith's bacon, and I don't like that change in the films.


I think the new ones will probably look fine, but I don't feel a need to buy them.

#55 of 75 OFFLINE   Ray_R

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Posted July 04 2006 - 01:13 PM

I've purchased all three Extended Edition DVD's the first day in the case or TFotR and TRotK and second day in case of TTT when they were released. I've given all four discs a spin with TFotR and TTT and the appendices discs on TRotK. It's been awhile since I've seen them mostly wanting to utilise the DTS-ES 6.1 sound on my 6.1 receiver but at the moment I'm only set-up with 5.0 right now and don't want to "cheat" said DTS-ES track. I was laughing my ass off at times with the stories on the cast commentaries on both TFotR and TTT. Haven't given the spin to TRotK yet but will get around to it when I finally finish buying and setting up the 6.1 from the 5.0 I have now on it.
Hell, I even used the limited time offer in TRotK to get the trilogy slipcase. This one one of my most all time favourite trilogies and book-to-film adaptations of all time. What has been in bookstores for better more than half a century and was literally deemed impossible to film was made so due to Peter Jackson and everyone involved.
You could sense the camraderie with everyone on the Appendice discs and I'm eagerly awaiting the eventual massively epic live-action silver screen adaptation of The Hobbit.
Perhaps if they were so inclined to adapt The Silmarillion into live action they might as well go for the mini-series approach. I guess my liking for The Lord of the Rings has made me enjoy such non-linear RPG's such as The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion so much more and gives me that feeling of sense, awe, wonder and complete immersiveness I get while playing them.


#56 of 75 OFFLINE   JoshRas

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Posted July 29 2006 - 02:36 PM

I finally got around to watching the extras on FOTR:EE, who was cast as Aragorn before Viggo Mortenson? I remember hearing about this a long time ago, but for the life of me cant remember who. Thanks!

#57 of 75 ONLINE   TravisR

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Posted July 29 2006 - 02:49 PM

I'm sure a LOTR superfan will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was Stuart Townsend.

#58 of 75 OFFLINE   Bryan Tuck

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Posted July 29 2006 - 03:27 PM

So did Jon ever make his choice? I'm always interested in what a first-time viewer has to say about LOTR.

I like both versions of each film. As others have said, I think the TEs really are paced better, but the EEs make very significant additions to the story and characters. And I agree that it is best viewed in parts, unless you just make a conscious decision and say, "I'm going to sit here for 11 hours and watch this thing." And hey, nothing wrong with that; I was at one of the trilogy screenings on Dec. 16, 2003 myself (of course, that was only the TE of ROTK).

I also have to chime in and say that I feel that
Saruman's death

absolutely, positively belonged in the theatrical cut of ROTK. There's no real wrap-up of the character without it.

At any rate, like I said, I think both versions work for different reasons.
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#59 of 75 OFFLINE   Ricardo C

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Posted July 29 2006 - 04:24 PM

I prefer the EE of The Two Towers, but I MUCH prefer the theatrical cuts of the other two films. They're tighter and more effective.

And as a fan of the book, just because the EEs are longer, doesn't mean they're more faithful to the source.
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#60 of 75 OFFLINE   Jake Burlow

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Posted December 08 2012 - 08:55 AM

Personally, I prefer the Extended Edition because the normal edition makes out Boromir to be a right dick. The extra scenes in extended show that he's not.


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