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CLD-99 vs. CLD-D703/4


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#1 of 19 OFFLINE   jim.vaccaro

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Posted June 27 2005 - 11:37 PM

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. Quite a respectable forum here.

I've noticed there's a few laser gurus around here. I'm mostly interested in the format for playing my Star Wars LDs and the just all around coolness of those big ol' discs. I currently have a CLD-D704 running composite into a Sony KP43HT20. I've got a CLD-D703 as a spare. Overall, my video quality is from fair to good, depending on the disc. Anyway, all technical details aside, would I actually SEE a definite improvement by upgrading to a CLD-99, and would it be worth it? Or would I be better off spending my money on a decent iScan HD scaler? Thanks for any responses.

#2 of 19 OFFLINE   Julian Reville

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Posted June 28 2005 - 12:47 AM

Hmm, I have a CLD-99 running into a SP4800 via composite; the picture varies from fair to very good, depending on the disc.

I also have a CLD-D606 in the bedroom system and a DVL-90 currently being used as a CD player in the weight room. Both have been swapped in and out of the main system, and to tell you the truth, I never noticed a big change in LD picture quality with any of them.

#3 of 19 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted June 28 2005 - 01:07 AM

I have a CLD-79 in the main system and a 704 in the basement. Kurtis Bahr lives not too far away from me and I had him bring over some players to look at on my 100 inch screen. He brought over one of his tweaked CLD-97s and his HLD-X9. We used my copy of "The Phantom Menace" LD for comparisons. For the money, if I had more LDs, I might have sprung for one of his tweaked 97s. The price of the X9 is just too much. I also has the Proceed PMDT at the time with its PVP card which had a built in scaler. To make a long story short, it won't make magic from a so-so quality transfer that many LDs would have. From a 43 inch display if you're sitting normal distance, depending on your budget and preferences, I'm not sure you'll get what you may be seeking from any of the choices. I don't think on a composite output you'll see much difference between what you have and a 99.

#4 of 19 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted June 28 2005 - 01:33 AM

I don't either. The 99 and the 704 are essentially the same video wise expect that the 99 has the better 3D comb filter. I'm not sure about your Sony, but it likely has a 3D comb filter as well that is most likely a bit better than what's in the 99. So I don't think you'd gain a whole lot by moving to that.

If you really want improvement, go with either the CLD97 or the LDS9 or the HLD X9. I have the X9 and a CLD 79 (same video player as the 704) and the difference between them is night and day. On my 53" screen, even medicore lasers like the Star Wars Faces lasers took on new life.

#5 of 19 OFFLINE   jim.vaccaro

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Posted June 28 2005 - 01:43 AM

Thanks for the replies. I was under the impression the CLD-99 gave a bit better vid signal-to-noise than the 704 (52db vs. 51db). If the vid guts are the same though, I won't bother getting one.

My Sony does have a good 3D digital comb onboard, and the TVs DRC deinterlacer does a great job with DVD, Cable, and even VHS. Laserdisc, on the other hand, it just does OK in my opinion, hence why I'm thinking about an iScan.

I'd love an LD-S9 or X9, but I can't justify $2k for one of these just to play my collection of 25 or so lasers. None of them except the Star Wars Faces, Definitive Collection, and Special Editions are "must haves"....so I'd essentially be dropping mad cash to watch 3 movies.

The thought of a tweaked 97 is intriguing, though. I've read about Kurtis' work in these forums before. I'd consider taking a hard look at one of his 97s, if he has any...or maybe he could tweak my 704?

#6 of 19 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 28 2005 - 02:20 AM

I suppose you at least tried an svideo connection to your display.

You really have to test back and forth to see which is better. On my display, the svideo is far superior, even though conventional wisdom indicates composite should / could be better.

I too could only pick up one of the great players if I came across one of those to good to pass up deals.

60" 4:3 display here with just simple line doubling. I'm currently using just one of the deemed so so Denon players. LA-3200 maybe? I'd have to look. My collection is around 900 titles which I value greatly.

#7 of 19 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted June 28 2005 - 02:51 AM

Jim, I don't know that he tweaks the 704 (you could ask him - kbahr@comcast.net). I got my 704 from him. He fixed my 79 I got from a dead beat on sleezE-Bay and I started with a 406 and had gotten a CLD-59. After looking and doing various comparisons I gave him my 59 and some cash for the 704. My collection is not that great (maybe 130) and in terms of cost per disc that I don't play that often it can get pricey with some of the more expensive players. The 704 and 79 as noted are basically the same and I bought some extra parts (e.g. spindle motor) so I have them if something happens.

#8 of 19 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted June 28 2005 - 03:13 AM

I think the 704 is mainly alignment, checks for crosstalk, etc. Some of the other players like the 97 and X9 can have the sharpness increased, but I don't believe the 704/79 have this ability.

#9 of 19 OFFLINE   jim.vaccaro

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Posted June 28 2005 - 04:00 AM

Hmm, good info. I haven't noticed any crosstalk on the 704, at least how I understand crosstalk.

I may be imagining it, but in one or two scenes I have noticed a "ghosting" on some of my LDs. My Star Wars IV Faces disc shows this when Luke is practicing with his lightsaber in the Falcon.... Again, it was slight, and I may have imagined it. Would this be an indication of a misaligned laser head?

Either way, I'll certainly email Mr. Bahr once I get back stateside.

John S: I have tried the S-Video. It looks slightly worse in some titles, and about the same on others. I remember reading that the 704 does Y/C separation with it's 3 Line comb regardless of whether you use the composite or S-Video outputs when using DVNR, so maybe that could account for it?

#10 of 19 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 28 2005 - 05:10 AM

yeah.. it was a long shot there jim...

I do feel fortunate my LD performance is as good as it is, I had fretted over it so before purchasing my current display.

All bets are off when I make the the move to a dedicated theater with front projo though. Posted Image

#11 of 19 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted June 28 2005 - 06:26 AM

I think Kurtis does something with the NR on the CLD-97 and of course puts in an AC-3 output.

#12 of 19 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted June 28 2005 - 06:43 AM

The NR on the 97 always defaults to on. Kurtis' tweak sets it to off as it apparently isn't very good.

I may be imagining it, but in one or two scenes I have noticed a "ghosting" on some of my LDs. My Star Wars IV Faces disc shows this when Luke is practicing with his lightsaber in the Falcon.... Again, it was slight, and I may have imagined it. Would this be an indication of a misaligned laser head?


The 704,79,99,LD-S9 all have a form of smearing, which sounds like what you may be seeing. No one really knows what causes it, possibly just a design defect. It's easily noticeable on the opening scene of Star Wars episode 4 when the star destroyer is moving across the screen. There is a moon in the background and you can see it smearing to the right. The 97 I think also has it but not nearly as bad as the others reportedly. The X9 does not have it.

To be honest, I had never noticed it on my CLD79, then when I got my X9 I hooked both it and my 79 up to my HDTV at the same time and played that scene from star wars on both of them. I have two copies of the Faces laser and started them both at the same time and switched back and forth between the 79 and the X9. It was immediatley noticeable on the 79 once I saw the same scene on the X9. It just wasn't there on the X9 at all and I was amazed by how much better the X9 image was, sharper, better black levels, better detail and much better color.

#13 of 19 OFFLINE   Frank Bambarola

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Posted June 29 2005 - 04:16 AM

Greg

How do you have your X9 setup. Just curious as I have not played around with many adjustments and was looking for some tips.

Thanks

#14 of 19 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted June 29 2005 - 05:06 AM

I use the S-video out to a Iscan Ultra, which converts to 480p and then scales the image to 16X9. I then output from the Iscan via it's VGA output to a BNC breakout cable which goes to my display, which is a Pioneer Elite 530 HDTV.

I have the D-EXT enabled which helps to set the correct black levels. I generally keep the comb filter set to Standard mode, with Normal Y/C seperation, I keep the level of 3D processing about half, the level of 3D noise reduction for the Y signal at 2 or 3, and then the 3D noise reduction on the C signal around halfway, or 4. If I watch a LD that has little action such as a concert or something I will switch the comb filer to use the ART setting. Are you aware of when to use the different comb filter settings?

#15 of 19 OFFLINE   Frank Bambarola

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Posted June 30 2005 - 04:48 AM

Greg,

Great info. No, I was not aware of the setting changes as I have not fired up the X9 for some time. This will change with the completion of my AV family room.

I do appreciate the guidance.

#16 of 19 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted June 30 2005 - 06:43 AM

The comb filter settings for Standard is for STandard material, Sports is for material with fast action, and Art is for material with slow action or stationary material.

Once you select one of the above algorithms, you can go in and adjust the Y/C level to either normal, C-Wide (for fast material) or HR (for slow material). HR makes the image sharper and gives the highest resolution but it also introduces some grain. HR also disables the 3D processing adjustment. It appears has though it sets it to full 3D processing and then disables your control over it will in HR mode.

Of course the level of 3D processing is adjustable on an eight step scale, with 0 being Off and 8 being MAX, or Full 3D. You can also adjust the 3D noise reduction levels on the Y and C signals seperatley on an eight step scale.

I adjust the comb filter depending on what I'm watching. I pretty much always use D-EXT to get the proper black level but this setting should be off if watching a Japanese ld as it makes it too dark.

#17 of 19 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted June 30 2005 - 09:01 AM

Jim, don't buy a 99 for it's S-video output. A 99 might as well be 79 these days when you use it's composite output. IMO, the 99's S-video output's usefulness is fading fast. If you're looking for better composite output, the CLD-97 and older, similar CLD-95 would be the way to go. Yeah, ask Kurtis.
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#18 of 19 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted April 23 2014 - 07:19 PM

I know this is an old topic, but does anyone know if the CLD-99 handles old and rotted discs any better than the 704? I had a CLD-97 for a while but sold it because it had a lot of problems that needed fixing, and it inherently has half of a black line at the very bottom of the picture which you can only see if you have a screen with zero overscan but it bugged the hell out of me. It did handle analog soundtracks on old discs, like the DiscoVision Abba disc, with much less noise than my other players including the 704, so I'm wondering if the 99 can as well? I know many later players skimped a bit on analog sound.


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#19 of 19 OFFLINE   David Norman

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Posted April 27 2014 - 03:39 PM

I know this is an old topic, but does anyone know if the CLD-99 handles old and rotted discs any better than the 704? I had a CLD-97 for a while but sold it because it had a lot of problems that needed fixing, and it inherently has half of a black line at the very bottom of the picture which you can only see if you have a screen with zero overscan but it bugged the hell out of me. It did handle analog soundtracks on old discs, like the DiscoVision Abba disc, with much less noise than my other players including the 704, so I'm wondering if the 99 can as well? I know many later players skimped a bit on analog sound.


It shouldn't. It basically is the same laser pickup as the 704 with a little different other electronics -- when I had to repair my CLD- D99,  Kurtis used the laser pickup from the 703 b/c it was also the same.   it was much cheaper to buy a lightly used 703 and strip the pickup than just buy the laser alone.

The Pioneer 1010 was unique in being able to play rotted discs much better than any other player due to its unique Laser.

"The CLD-1010 is a totally solid state player with a CCD Time Base Corrector. It also incorporates the same, superior analog video noise reduction circuitry that is contained in the LD-W1 and the Pioneer Elite LD-S1. The laser uses the Accu-Focus system, and achieves a .55 micron laser spot for 420 lines of resolution. In addition, the LaserRF amp is attached directly to the pickup, for RF-noise rejection. The player also incorporates Video Noise Coring, that eliminates video noise (snow) in dark parts of the picture. This helps tremendously with imperfectly pressed CLV/CAA Extended Play titles. One extra special aspect of the CLD-1010, and what sets it apart from all other Solid State LD players, either before or since, is its Laser Diode uses a RED laser of 6228 Angstroms. No other LD player or CD player with a Diode Laser has used a red laser. Red Lasers are VERY expensive and difficult to produce. But, they achieve an incredibly tight beam, and have excellent noise rejection. Plus, the red color of the laser makes most scratches and blemishes on the surface of the disc invisible to the photo diode system. Strangely, Pioneer never talked about this feature nor did they promote it."


 

 





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