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Will DLP fade away?


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28 replies to this topic

#1 of 29 OFFLINE   Darrin M

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Posted February 23 2004 - 04:58 AM

Hello all,
This past weekend I was TV shopping and was told by a salesman that because the technology of DLP was so expensive most of the big manufacturers will only be making LCD tv's so the technology will be far superior and replace DLP. Is there any truth to this? He did have both the Samsung DLP and the Sony LCD in his shop and was not really trying to push one over the other.

#2 of 29 OFFLINE   Paul W

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Posted February 23 2004 - 05:48 AM

I don't think so. A friend of mine who works at TI said the price of DLP chips should be coming down (the HD3 is billed as a DLP chip that is cheaper to manufacture).

Also, TI has supposedly been putting pressure on Samsung to lower prices accordingly. They should come down much quicker than LCD TVs (I assume you are talking about flat panel LCD TV's? LCOS has been dropped by Toshiba in favor of DLP).

I think DLP is going to be the future of RP-HDTV.
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#3 of 29 OFFLINE   cabreau

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Posted February 23 2004 - 06:45 AM

I think LCOS is going to make DLP and LCD extinct in no less than 4 years. Posted Image
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#4 of 29 OFFLINE   Jason GT

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Posted February 23 2004 - 07:07 AM

Fact and opinion, opinion and fact.

Fact: DLP IS more expensive than LCD projection.
Opinion: it will probably remain so.

Fact: Other manufacturers are developing or have developed DLP sets (RCA has a set out, Toshiba ditched LCoS for DLP and Panasonic is coming back with DLP)

Fact: Intel threw its hat into the LCoS arena
Opinion: if Intel can get quality and yields up, the RPTV market will get very interesting.
Opinion: any Intel-based product is 1-2 yrs away at the VERY soonest. Add another 6-12 months for the trickle down for common distribution, perhaps even more for prices to come down.

#5 of 29 OFFLINE   Seth Paxton

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Posted February 23 2004 - 08:41 AM

Add to that the fact that DLP is used outside of just video imaging. I was first introduced to the technology while working on the Human Genome Project, for example.


LCOS has had some issues to work out previously. At one point several years ago I saw some protos that had a big problem with something rather like burn-in, though it was more like electronic shadowing I would say. I think this has been worked out, but it does point to the fact that all 3 technologies are still in most ways on the bleeding edge right now.


I haven't heard anything to suggest that DLP technology will be fading out, especially soon. I have heard it presented that all the competition from LCD, DLP and LCOS is really putting the heat on plasma to get its own prices down.

I think the big push is for one of these technologies to reach a full 1080p level of resolution. LCOS was going after that but I haven't seen where that stands lately.


Personally I just went with the Samsung DLP, but I also picked up a smaller Samsung LCD on a Circuit City closing sale. I like them both, but they aren't the same size so I can't fully compare them. The costs aren't that far off of where CRT rear-proj sets where just a few years ago.

#6 of 29 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted February 24 2004 - 12:11 AM

Darrin,

I will bet that person you talked to has been reading some of the glowing press that's come out about LCOS lateley. It may well kill DLP eventually but no time soon.
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#7 of 29 OFFLINE   Heath_E

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Posted February 24 2004 - 12:49 AM

Quote:
I think the big push is for one of these technologies to reach a full 1080p level of resolution. LCOS was going after that but I haven't seen where that stands lately.


TI's new xHD3 DLP chip is 1080p. Take a look here
A 1080p LCOS chip has also been produced, see here

LCOS may very well be the superior technology "if" its full potential is ever fully realized. That said, DLP is certainly the hot product for 2004, and isn't going away anytime soon.

#8 of 29 OFFLINE   Dan Wesnor

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Posted February 24 2004 - 01:46 AM

I think whoever solves the black level problem first (without creating new problems) will win.

If you've seen D-ILA, then you know that it is clearly the best of the pixel technologies, but is still too way expensive to go mainstream.

#9 of 29 OFFLINE   Darrin M

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Posted February 24 2004 - 06:41 AM

Thank you all for the valuable information. Thats why I keep coming back. It looks like the big Sammy will be in the theatre soon.

Posted Image

#10 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Kampmann

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Posted February 24 2004 - 10:24 AM

I love my 43" Samsung!

#11 of 29 OFFLINE   Craig Robertson

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Posted February 24 2004 - 11:23 AM

Quote:
I think whoever solves the black level problem first (without creating new problems) will win.


wouldn't that be CRT? Posted Image

#12 of 29 OFFLINE   Jake-o

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Posted February 25 2004 - 01:55 AM

We just bought the 50" samsung DLP. Nice bright colors from any viewing angle. Super light...only 77 pounds. It's lighter than my old 32" tube. My only complaint so far is that it doesn't display deep black. We notice it more an night. Sat., DVD, PS2...all have the same outcome. It's a bit hard to make out dark scenes...but I'll live with it. I love my new toy enough to look past that. But overall, the picutre is very smooth and clear. We're using component video for the DVD and S-video from the sat. recvr.

#13 of 29 OFFLINE   Dan Wesnor

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Posted February 25 2004 - 02:25 AM

Quote:
wouldn't that be CRT?


Why, yes, it would. Posted Image

But CRT has a number of other problems, like size, cost to maintain, room must be dark, etc. CRT also has problems with yellow and orange. I had never seen orange on a TV until I saw D-ILA.

#14 of 29 OFFLINE   John Doh

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Posted February 26 2004 - 01:26 PM

IMO, DLP is the future for RPTV's. In 2004, 7 more manufacturers are introducing new DLP TV line-ups. LCD will disappear in two years and LCOS is still unproven. CRT RPTV's are going, going, gone. Plasma is the only real competition for the DLP and IMO, it is not as good. The black levels on the DLP's are much better than plasma and the picture brightness, even when toned down stomps a plasma. Let's don't even go in a cost comparison.

The DLP's cost more than the other technologies (other than plasma) but they are worth it IMO. I can't wait until June for my new HLP!!! I hate to sound like a fanboy, but I have been doing ALOT of reading on the web about the digital TV technologies and DLP seems to be the clear winner as the total package.

The only real area where DLP kinds stinks is the SDTV signals quality projection. But I look at it this way... in 2006 HD is going to be the standard and anyone who has seen HD material on a DLP can tell you it is breathtaking. So if you are in the market for a new set, think further down the road than next weeks primetime broadcasting, think a year or so down the road when HDTV is gojng to become the standard. In the meantime DVD's look great on it and all the big events shown on the tube are going to be broadcasts in HD so you can show it off to your friends.

#15 of 29 OFFLINE   Heath_E

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Posted February 28 2004 - 06:10 AM

Remeber that digital, not necessarily HD, is the mandated standard. And, it probably won't happen by 2006.

#16 of 29 OFFLINE   Rich H

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Posted February 28 2004 - 10:46 AM

Quote:
The black levels on the DLP's are much better than plasma


John, not quite really. No DLP approaches the black level performance of those plasmas using the Panasonic glass (which would be all the Pansonic models, some Fujitsu models, Bang and Olufsen, Runco, and some other brands).

Those models achieve black levels in CRT territory (.2 nits). No DLP can come close, and one reason I don't care for all the DLPs I've tested is the relatively poor black levels (not dark enough).

As well, other plasma brands hover around DLP black levels -slightly better, as good and slightly worse.

And don't get me started on LCD black levels...Posted Image

All that said, I think DLP is GREAT bang for the buck picture quality, and they seem very popular so I don't see it going away soon. I hear LCOS still has to lick those black level problems too.

#17 of 29 OFFLINE   Dan Wesnor

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Posted February 29 2004 - 12:59 AM

Black level is not just about how black is black. It's also about the amount of definition in the blacks - i.e., can you distinguish between 5 and 10 IRE. It's easy enough to make your blacks darker by putting a neutral density filter in the system (which is what the Panasonic glass is), but that doesn't increase detail in dark areas.

Plasma has another big secret - not only is it the most expensive technology, it is has the shortest lifespan. Plasma sets will lose their brightness due to screen burn much faster than CRT.

#18 of 29 OFFLINE   Rich H

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Posted February 29 2004 - 10:08 AM

Dan,

The Panasonic plasmas, which always produce the best black levels, don't simply use a neutral density filter. If that's all there was to the Panasonic black level performance other manufacturers would be doing it too. There is also the "rib" structure of the pixel cells, as well as the "real black drive" system. Panasonic is the only plasma that can turn the pixels (virtually) off for true black.

Also, the Panasonic plasmas will show more shadow detail than competing brands, and more than any DLP/LCD I've seen.
I own a Panasonic plasma and have had the opportunity to test one side by side with both DLP and LCD.

The Pansonic does not distinguish the *very lowest* gray scale as well as a CRT, but the black depth and shadow detail is still unrivaled by DLP or LCD.

Regarding plasma life: The "short" life-span is not a secret; it is in fact a myth that has become ubiquitous. However, it is grossly overstated. My 2 year old plasma model is rated between 25,000 to 30,000 hours to half brightness. That is comparable to ratings for CRT sets. (And works out to around 17 years at 4 hours a day).

Estimates for life-span of the latest generation of plasmas by some of the big manufacturers are now between 40,000 to 60,000 hours. That's a hell of a lot of TV/Movie viewing.

I don't know about you, but the way technology changes these days I can't imagine owning ANY display that long before replacing it with what will surely be a much better display in the future.

#19 of 29 OFFLINE   Kevin*Ha

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Posted March 01 2004 - 07:34 AM

"Plasma has another big secret - not only is it the most expensive technology, it is has the shortest lifespan. Plasma sets will lose their brightness due to screen burn much faster than CRT. "

Egads, someone needs to make a formula regarding new display technology and forum threads. As the number of posts in any thread about new TV technology increases the probability of the thread producing a plasma misconception approaches 1. Posted Image

Panasonic unofficially says their new displays will hit half brightness between 30-60k hours. Even using the lower of those two numbers you're talking 10 years at 8 hours of viewing a day. I currently own two CRTs, one is 4 years old the other is 12 and dying. I'm sure people have 20-30-even 40 year old CRTs, but do they watch movies on them nightly anymore? Nah. Are they a rare case? Sure. Let's be realistic here, how many people who are buying a RP/FP or Plasma widescreen today will keep their display for 10 years? And this is using the less of their scale!

That said I think DLP will probably sell more than plasma in 5 years, but that's just imo.

#20 of 29 OFFLINE   DaveGTP

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Posted March 02 2004 - 07:53 AM

DLP RPTV also has the other problems inherent with all rear projection - problems with the lights on, wash out horizontally and vertically. Plus, rainbows for some people who are susceptible. Black levels are still less than the better plasmas.



I do almost think we could use such a technology pros-and-cons sticky thread. A lot of misconceptions exist (like the plasma lifespan myth and leaking gas myths, and that flat panel LCDs will replace them soon).


What should be realized is that all the technologies have their pros and cons, and none are "better" or "superior" than the others.


I wanted a 42" Panny plasma, but on a budget (getting married this year), ended up with a DLP projector (x1). Consider me a neutral party Posted Image I love the DLP projector - even though I am replacing with a faster wheeled projector due to rainbows. But I know that the plasma would have some different benefits, as would all the other technologies.
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