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Question for the Bass Gurus Needed Crazy Bass


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32 replies to this topic

#1 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 09:40 AM

Hi all. Hope to get some ideas from u all. Where to start.. Size and room I guess and equipment House is 2 yrs old Built by Family member and I. MediaRoom size: H 8ft x W 12ft x L 20ft the Length is North South I sit facing 12 ft or so facing the south wall. Location : Finished Basement including wet bar Cement floor and 3/4's of the walls on the east and south side is cemment that side being 3/4 under ground. Room is sonically Sound. I have 2 enclosers I hade made yrs ago 18"x18"x17" With 1 port w 4" xL 4.5" Forgot the tuning fequency I'd guess around 28hz. So i slaped some 12inch drivers we reconed at the shop. There is no brand name on these driver. But they dont have the typical magnet Most drivers have. These have what I have heard called Elminco Magnets.Using the Preout on a Onkyo TX-NR900 I find I have to up the SW pre output to plus 3 db on movies and upto 12db on music.This is with either 120x2 to the subs from a older reciever or 350 x 2 From a older BGH 750c amp. MY mains are Heco Odeon 600 Towers with 3 6inch drivers plus soft dome with there matching Odeon center and Bi Polar rears. These Speaker are German made Simular to Canton,MB Quart,Magnat. I was considering a Ported tempest from there site the last one in the Pdf file. Would this offer improvement. Or should I use the enclosers I have and use Shivas sealed or ported or should I use 2 15 inch drivers sealed in my Enlosers? Soooo Do I buy a plate amp or use the Pro amp I Have and can the proamp harm my Onkyo recievers Preout? Seeing as its a commercal amp requiring 1/4 inch mono Phono jacks. I want Crazy bass Please Well Lets start with this and Ill answer any questions u think i forgot Thanks for yer time

#2 of 33 OFFLINE   Rory Buszka

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Posted January 29 2004 - 09:43 AM

That is one thing you can't do with a vented box: you can't jut slap a driver in there and expect it to work. The air doesn't just come out the hole, and you don't just get crazy bass like that. You need to find a sub driver that will work in a box that size with a port that length. It takes calculation and thinking and if you are going to embark on a serious sub project I think you need to be prepared for that.
"It sounds like it's barfing out the bass." - Zach

#3 of 33 OFFLINE   Rory Buszka

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Posted January 29 2004 - 09:45 AM

Get the Adire Tempest, and use a plate amplifier. It simplifies things greatly, and you don't need pro aps unless you are driving crazy loads. Then build the box exactly as Adire says to. Don't deviate from the plan one little bit. Every little deviation hurts.
"It sounds like it's barfing out the bass." - Zach

#4 of 33 OFFLINE   ThomasW

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Posted January 29 2004 - 09:55 AM

That's probably Alnico magnets. These are rare and quite sought after by the high efficiency audio crowd. However they aren't meant for subwoofers Sell them, you'll make more than enough money to buy a pair of nice high excursion 12"s

#5 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:02 AM

Rory Yes u can Porting a encloser is like tunnin a Pipe organ there is a required diameter and length for a FS maybe ur not in the industry to notice. But the enclosers I have are net around 3 cubic feet. Please tell me what tuning fs is on a port 4 inchs buy 4.5 Regardless of the speaker

#6 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:04 AM

Thomas Thanks for the spelling and ya we just used a CV cone rebuild kit on them. lol Didnt relieaze they where sought after.. Would u know what manufactur used them and or where they may have come out of??

#7 of 33 OFFLINE   GrahamT

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:17 AM

Rory is right, he means that just because a box is ported and tuned to the desired frequecy doesn't mean that it will work well with the driver. Yes, the box is still tuned to the same frequency but it may not give you the desired performance. You have to look at all the specs in relation to eachother. The Adire designs are tried and true.

#8 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:28 AM

K read this w.adireaudio.com/Files/ShivaTechSummary.PDF Works in 3 cft seal or ported using a 3 inch port 11.5 long.Which they say tunes to 20hz. So to tune an 3 cft encloser at 20 hz needs a port 3 inchs wide by 11.5 long. That has nothing to do with the sub being used. I could use a anyones 12 inch in that encloser and the tuning wont change.

#9 of 33 OFFLINE   GrahamT

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:35 AM

Yes, the tuning wont change. The performance will.

#10 of 33 OFFLINE   ThomasW

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Posted January 29 2004 - 10:39 AM

Luitz

I don't have a clue. If you can post pictures (front and back) I'm sure someone at the High Efficiency Forum at AA will know the drivers

#11 of 33 OFFLINE   Eric Eash

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Posted January 29 2004 - 12:14 PM

this is true, but a 20Hz tuning might be good for one type of driver, while it could be terrible for another. truthfully, you could stick any kind of driver in there you want, and it will play bass. think of it like a cars transmission. if you got a mustang with a V6 that runs great with the current transmission, then you swap the engine for a big block V8 putting out twice the torque and twice the HP, and the car will still run, but the tranny won't be optimized for the new engine. anyways, download a program like winISD and start inputing some figures and you'll figure it all out. eric
"Everybody thinks they have a sense of humor, even if they don't." -favorite movie quote!

Can your sub hit 120db @ 10Hz?...Just wondering.
My DIY Sub for sale
My DVDs

#12 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 12:17 PM

K so whats the deal here 93 plus people read this and noone answer my question aside from going off topic. Is there a forum somewhere that has experenced people in it. I have used leap and various other programs I dont like Winisd I have run the BGH amp mono 4 ohm 1200watts on 2 12 inch and a sealed 15inch JL still wasnt enough base also had to run gain on sw preout at plus 8. And so far 1 tempest is the comaprision?? from what someone has said.

#13 of 33 OFFLINE   KyleGS

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Posted January 29 2004 - 12:50 PM



Posted Image

#14 of 33 OFFLINE   Ben L C

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Posted January 29 2004 - 01:03 PM

I'll second that KyleGS. This place is full of the BEST DIY speaker builders one could ask for. I am new to this speaker building addiction and what I did was read for a long time to understand what was out there, and I am only building a subwoofer. There is a lot of information right here on this site. The responses people have given you are trying to lead you down the right path to get you to your fix on Crazy Bass. I am in no way bashing or don't have the intention to. If you want the Crazy Bass I would suggest to read, as I did, and see what it actually takes to get Crazy Bass. I ended up after much reading working on a Tumult based sub with 2 18" PR's. Ben

#15 of 33 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted January 29 2004 - 01:49 PM

Wow Luitz, you've managed to just about insult everyone here. Just because you don't like the "help" you're getting doesn't mean we're not experienced. Good luck getting any "help" now.

#16 of 33 OFFLINE   Brian Bunge

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Posted January 29 2004 - 01:50 PM

First you should simulate the drivers you want to use in the enclosures that you have. The Shivas will work well in 3ft^3 enclosures but I'd change the tuning to somewhere bewteen 20-25Hz. You'll want larger sealed enclosures, around 4ft^3, if you want to use a Tempest in each. That is, unless you prefer a higher Q sealed alignment.
Brian Bunge
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#17 of 33 OFFLINE   Luitz

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Posted January 29 2004 - 02:30 PM

Brian Bunge Thanks Have looked at that already Also Talked to Kyle Richardson Waiting for another reply I realize the tuning fs should be around 18-20 for home audio. Just not sure if 1 Tempest in a 217L encloser is going to be enough. Maybe refacing the 2 3 cubic ft enclosers and running 2 12 inch shivas might provide more output Then a single 15? Also what amp would be required to reach x-max. Should I even bother using the BGH 750c that I have. And do proamps have a Higher input impedence then home audio recievers put out?. I find i need to have the receiver preout almost maxed to get decent bass from what i have lying around. Or maybe I should hook up my Audio Control Phase coupled activator and Use its preout gain to help increase sensitity to the pro amp, I think it has a 2 volt out although im not sure ? Any thoughts

#18 of 33 OFFLINE   Craig Treusdell

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Posted January 29 2004 - 03:41 PM

Luitz -
What is "Crazy bass" to you? Loss of vision? Difficulty breathing?
Also I didn't read about any financial restrictions.

One Tempest in the Adire alignment is pretty amazing. I was impressed with just one in a ~18x28x9 room with most of one side open to other parts of the house. I was using 750 watts cranked way down. I even bought a 250w plate amp, but got some Tumults before I tried the plate amp. I think it should do fine with the Tempest.
But it's not crazy bass. Two Tempests would get you closer, but now you are dealing with two very large enclosures.

If you want BASS I suggest one to two Adire Tumults. That with PRs and you approach stupid bass.

Or just wait for the new Adire subs Posted Image

#19 of 33 OFFLINE   JimPeitersen

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Posted January 29 2004 - 05:47 PM

Brian & Craig, I applaud your effort in trying to help him. I was going to make some suggestions but didn't want to waste my time given his attitude. JP

#20 of 33 OFFLINE   Eric Eash

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Posted January 29 2004 - 08:02 PM

Luitz, for really crazy bass, i'd suggest 10 tumults in an IB config, each running off an outlaw 200w monoblock. i'm glad you appreciate all the help, let us know how much more you need.
"Everybody thinks they have a sense of humor, even if they don't." -favorite movie quote!

Can your sub hit 120db @ 10Hz?...Just wondering.
My DIY Sub for sale
My DVDs




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