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A good sub to match B&Ws?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 11 2003 - 04:38 AM

I currently have 2 B&W DM602 S3s in the front, which will soon get a pair of DM601 S3's in the rear for surrounds.

In the mean time, i'd like to get a sub that goes awesome for HT (80%) (the b&ws handle the bass is my music at great rates).

My room is 16x11.5x8, but i will be moving in less than 1.5yrs (college student right now), so i dont want to be limited by my room, entirely. I do have neighbors, so i dont want them to "enjoy" my sub, either.

My budget is in the 400 range, and i am eying the HSU STF-2.

I've got a sony str-de675 reciever.

Any recommendations? Today i plan to visit CC and bestbuy to checkout their stock, but sadly i dont have access to any CompUSA's to listen to the HSU, so im going on blind reading for STF.

Thanks.

#2 of 19 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 11 2003 - 05:59 AM

Get the HSU, you won't be disappointed. You don't need to "match" a sub to your speakers, any decent sub can be integrated into any system.

IMO, I'd look to upgrade the receiver, because you are asking for trouble with those speakers paired up with that receiver.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#3 of 19 OFFLINE   Dan Halchak

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Posted December 11 2003 - 06:50 AM

I'd check out the SVS PCi 20-39, great price for it and works seemlessly with B&Ws as well as just about any other speakers. It's a great HT sub. You won't be disappointed.

I run the DM604 S3, LCR600 S3, DM602 S3, and DM601 S3, and SVS PCi 20-39 in my 7.1 setup, sound awesome! Guarantee you won't be disappointed, or I'll buy the sub from ya! Posted Image Posted Image

#4 of 19 OFFLINE   CharlesD

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Posted December 11 2003 - 07:37 AM

The SVS subs get great press around here, but I'm wondering if anyone has compared the SVS to the B&W subs (like the ASW600 for instance) ?

I'm running DM602 S3s and DM601 S3s along with a cheap JBL sub. THe sub does OK for movies, but when I listen to music (5-10% of the time, rest is HT) I turn it off cause it is boomy and sounds bad with music.

I don't really care about SPLs and rattling the foundations but more about the sub being "musical".

Any opinions on SVS vs B&W given the above considerations?

#5 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 11 2003 - 08:54 AM

Well, i went and listened to the B&W 300 and 600 subs.. the 300 was not impressive for the price, and the 600 was ok (a large improvement over the 300), but i wasnt too impressed either.

I have yet to hear an SVS or Hsu in person, however.

I also went to CC and gave a try their Velodyne 150 watt 10".

i didnt give it as large of an interview as the b&ws, but it wasnt bad, though not as tight, but seemed stronger than the b&w 300.

My problem w/ the SVS is it's past my price range. im really only comfy doing low400$'s, high 300$'s

#6 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 11 2003 - 08:58 AM

John Garcia


What do you mean problems?

I've been running them on it thus far, and ive been really quite impressed. The good thing about the B&Ws is they dont need alot of power to drive them (90db). I also dont have a very large room, (11.5x16x8)

ive heard some people say a HK reciever would give a 'warmer' feel? I really had no idea the reciever could affect that much...

What are your thoughts?

#7 of 19 OFFLINE   Stephen Hopkins

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Posted December 11 2003 - 09:17 AM

For $400 i don't think you can do any better than the Adire Rava (other than DIY). Check www.audioenvy.com for people in your area who have offered to give in home demos of their equipment and see if you can check out a Rava (or DIY Shiva for comparrison sake) and possibly some SVSs too.

The HSU subs are now available at CompUSA so you can pick one up there if you like and get a demo, although the environment (and setup) probably won't be optimal.

#8 of 19 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 11 2003 - 09:32 AM

Quote:
What do you mean problems?

IMO, this recevier is low in terms of power output (real world power, not rated) for these speakers. Depending on how loud you listen, you run the risk of distortion during higher demand which could quickly result in damaged speakers. Just make sure you turn it down if they start to sound strained.

H/K and Marantz have a reputation for smooth, clean amplification and do well with music reproduction. I have heard CDM-1NTs with a Marantz amp and the combination was spectacular.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 19 OFFLINE   Rich.S

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Posted December 11 2003 - 10:05 AM

I agree with John. I think you could gain a lot by upgrading the receiver. A friend of mine is looking for a receiver in the sub $1,000 price range and we listened to several Yamaha and Marantz models. I was extremely surprised how much of a difference the receiver made at that price point. We did the listening with B&W 603 speakers.

From my listening experience, I've been impressed with HK, Denon, Marantz, Rotel and Arcam at the entry level price point. I own an Arcam AVR 200 myself and couldn't be happier (unless I had separates and more money). You definitely owe it to yourself to do some AB comparisons with different receivers if you budget permits.

Rich

#10 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 11 2003 - 11:04 AM

What is your opinion on the HK AVR130??

I am not interesting in 6.1, though the 230 has slightly more Power.

Would the 130 be sufficient to run my 602 S3's (25w-120w power handling).

#11 of 19 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 11 2003 - 12:59 PM

The 130 might be on the borderline, but it will almost certainly provide more current than the Sony, so I don't think it would be a problem. Look around for the AVR-325 or 225 (last year's models) and you might be able to find some good deals, now that the new models are out.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#12 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 11 2003 - 02:52 PM

Will i really notice a difference of 5-10 watts per channel?

That's about the difference from the 130 to the 230, or the models you listed, and I dont think i can defend the price increase on those because of that. I can find the 130 for 299.99 from jandr dot com (and its an authorized dealer).

but, i dont want to be short changed, either. After xmas, i plan to pickup the reciever at CC and see how it sounds in comparison to my Sony... would you recommend any way of setting them up easily enough so that i can compare quickly (without the delay of hooking 1 up, disconnecting it, hooking it up to the other reciever, etc.)? Could i do this with only ONE speaker? (Right now i only have 2 B&W 603s.. was going to grab surrounds next, but id rather have a capable reciever).

At any rate, its a bit of a shame to see that although sony advertised this receiver as 100x5 (STR-DE675) that it is infact no where near that? What, most likely, is the output on it, then? Is there i can besides buying equipment to test it?

thank you for all of the help, thus far..

#13 of 19 OFFLINE   Mark C.

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Posted December 12 2003 - 12:54 AM

He asks about subs and the next thing he knows he has to get a new receiver.

Carlos:

Take it easy. One thing at a time. Back to the original question, B&W makes OK subs, and their latest line seems to have improved over earlier offerings. But they are very pricey. Hsu is a good choice. I'd also look at M&K. I wouldn't go near an SVS if I lived in an apartment. Too much temptation to turn up the volume, too many potential neighbor problems.

Don't worry about your receiver. For your needs at this time, what you have is fine.

#14 of 19 OFFLINE   MarkB

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Posted December 12 2003 - 02:01 AM

I agree that you shouldn't worry about the receiver now. If you were happy with it before this thread started, keep using it. You'll get more benefit by adding surrounds vs upgrading a component that is working for you today.

Mark

#15 of 19 OFFLINE   Rich.S

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Posted December 12 2003 - 02:05 AM

Carlos,

One thing at a time. Focus on what you think will make the most improvement in your system, and concentrate on that now. If you watch a lot of movies and feel bass is lacking, the sub is probably the best thing to start with. I was recently on the quest for a new sub as well. Initially, my budget was $400 - like yours. I had all but decided on the Adire Rava, until... I decided since I had waited 5+ years to add a sub, it might make sense to step it up a notch. I finally decided on the ACI Force ($750), but haven't set it up or evaluated it yet. I want something that does very well for music as well, which is why the Rava and Force were at the top of my list. I like that fact that both of them are sealed - all my main speakers are sealed designs. Anyway, I digress...bottom line, focus on one thing at a time, and don't short change yourself by buying something when you know you could wait a bit longer and buy something you'd be happier with.

Regarding the receiver, you're thinking about it in the wrong way. If you listen to one, unhook it and connect the second and listen to the same thing again, and don't hear any difference - it's not worth upgrading. So many people try to A/B speakers, receivers, etc. quickly that what you're trying to do sometimes gets lost. If you can hear a difference with the same music played back to back, you can't hear a difference...period. As far as recommendations go- it sounds like 5.1 is all you need, if that's the case, you could pick up a used Arcam AVR 100 for about $600 that will blow away anything else in that price point. I wouldn't focus too much on the technical specs - just listen and buy what you like, use your own ears to judge.

Happy searching.

#16 of 19 OFFLINE   CarlosM

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Posted December 12 2003 - 02:44 AM

Thanks guys...

your guidance has helped calm me down Posted Image

There isnt an MK dealer near me, so I dont think i can do much in the way of auditioning one. Ill just have to wait and audition the STF-2, because right now i am not pleased with anything else available at my local boutique store, or at CC and BB (its agrivating because most of their setups are designed for music, and i dont want a bass for music, i want it for movies.)

thanks for the feedback.

#17 of 19 OFFLINE   Tim Ranger

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Posted December 12 2003 - 05:59 AM

Rich:

You're gonna love that ForcePosted Image My Titan was one of the best investments I've ever made. Had my friend's Force in system for almost two months and it is killer as well.

#18 of 19 OFFLINE   Dan_Whip

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Posted December 12 2003 - 06:51 AM

The Adire Rava looks like it would be perfect for your budget. In all the time I've been on the various forums, I haven't seen a single bad review of the shiva driver. You could also look at Parts Express at their complete kits. Just bolt everything together and you're good to go.

#19 of 19 OFFLINE   Rich.S

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Posted December 12 2003 - 07:24 AM

Tim,

I finally convinced my wife to buy me the Force for Christmas...only problem is that she won't let me open it until then Posted Image