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dvd-audio is 96 khz, correct?


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#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 08 2003 - 04:21 PM

i bought a dvd-audio player yesterday and have hooked up the analog connections. when i play a dvd-audio, and press multi channel on my reciever, the suuround sound is not as good as prologic II i went into my dvd-audio player setup menu and have sellected multichannel. but for some reason, multi channel on dvd-audio does not sound as good as PLII i looked in my reciever manual and it says this: IF 96 KHZ DIGITAL SIGNAL IS IMPUT, THE TONE, SOUND FIELD AND SURROUND PARAMETERS DO NOT FUNCTION can someone explain that or give me advice. thanks player is panasonic f-85

#2 of 26 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted November 08 2003 - 06:07 PM

Jeremy: go buy Linkin Park's Reanimation dvd-audio and THEN you'll hear what dvd-audio is capable of.

Each surround music disc is mixed differently: some "gentle" & airy, and some in-your-face and moving all around the room, like that LP disc.

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#3 of 26 OFFLINE   FeisalK

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Posted November 08 2003 - 06:12 PM

I nominate Blue Man Group Audio as well Posted Image
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#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 08 2003 - 06:50 PM

[quote] Jeremy: go buy Linkin Park's Reanimation dvd-audio and THEN you'll hear what dvd-audio is capable of [quote]

that is the one i picked up...........but i still think something is not right.

#5 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 08 2003 - 08:23 PM

if dvd-audio plays in 96khz, then how come when it is playing, it say 48? this is pissing me off.

#6 of 26 OFFLINE   FeisalK

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Posted November 08 2003 - 09:40 PM

not all DVD-A is 96kHz; the DVD-A standard is PCM at sampling rates of 44.1, 48.0, 88.2, 96.0, 176.4 and 192.0 kHz, with word lengths of 16, 20 or 24 bits. Unless the disc specifically states 96/24 I would imagine most 5.1 DVD-A is at 48/20(?) with hirez stereo at 192/24
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#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 08 2003 - 09:56 PM

i have the linkin park dvd-audio playing right now, and if i press the audio button on my remote, it says this: 48k24b 6ch now like you said, why would hirez stereo be higher?

#8 of 26 OFFLINE   FeisalK

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Posted November 09 2003 - 12:33 AM

Jeremy

I don't have this disc, but you could try out the stereo layer instead of the m/c area and see what the resolution is Posted Image

as to why.. my guess is they would have put 6ch of 192/24 if there was enough space on the disc.

post edit: I found this page that says the 2ch hirez is - even less than mc - 44k/24b. This is probably what you see printed on top at the back of the DVD-A package
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#9 of 26 OFFLINE   John Kotches

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Posted November 09 2003 - 01:15 AM

Jeremy,

Have you done level setting for the analog output of your Panasonic player? If you haven't you likely have channel imbalances that are causing some of your issues.

Also, if you truly are using the multi-channel analog output, this statement [quote] IF 96 KHZ DIGITAL SIGNAL IS IMPUT, THE TONE, SOUND FIELD AND SURROUND PARAMETERS DO NOT FUNCTION [quote] is irrelevant, as you are working with an analog signal.

The reason for not providing these functions on 96K digital inputs, would be that there is insufficient DSP horsepower to perform the operations for that sampling rate.

BTW, there is no mandated sampling rate for DVD-Audio. For multi-channel material, the rates can be 44.1K, 48K, 88.2K and 96K. For stereo (or mono) material add 176.4K and 192K.

Delivered sampling rates can depend on existing master tapes. If digital, there is little benefit in modifying the original sampling rates. For analog, it will depend on the quality of those tapes, the mixing and mastering studios utilized and the discretion of the team responsible for the technical aspects of the recording.

Some of my better sounding DVD-A titles are delivered as "only" 48K sampling.

Cheers,
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Opinions are my own, not representative of the publication I write for.

#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Brian L

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Posted November 09 2003 - 02:27 AM

Bass management, or lack thereof from your player would also be a contributor to perceived sound quality differences. BGL

#11 of 26 OFFLINE   Robert A. Willis Jr.

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Posted November 09 2003 - 03:00 AM

I always check the spampling rate indicated with the disk playing. Then I listen to both stereo and multichanel tracks (yes quite often the multichannel tracks are sampled at a lower rate). Finally, I choose which pleases me the most and mark the cover (not with indelible ink since I may change my mind). For example, I am presently leaning towards the multichannel tracks on the recent Marvin Gaye disk. Also not all players will pass 192 but will down convert to 96

#12 of 26 OFFLINE   ReggieW

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Posted November 09 2003 - 05:33 AM

I would think by now that all DVD-A capable players now have 192khz DAC's. As John stated, there are a few stereo recordings that are 192khz, so your player would definitely have to have 192khz DAC's (I may be wrong, but I think all DVD-A players have ALWAYS had 192khz DAC's). Also, don't get wrapped up in the sample rates to much, because I've heard both good and bad at 48khz/96khz. Some of my favorite discs like Donald Fagen's Nightfly, REM's Automatic for the People and the Shostakovich jazz suites and Prokofiev Alexander Nevsky, both from Naxos, are my favorite recordings on the format and they are all 24/48. Reg
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#13 of 26 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted November 09 2003 - 08:44 AM

I'm pretty sure the LP disc uses 44.1 and 48kHz sampling because of the huge amount of sound effects used on Renanimation. I can hear quite a bit of hiss on some tracks and I think if they used higher sampling rates this and other sonic nasties like edits would even be more audible.

And:

* There are 20 tracks on this disc
* FOUR videos
* All menu screens are animated w/stereo music
* And there are stereo/surround MLP-PCM tracks and stereo & surround Dolby Digital tracks included.

Methinks this disc is just about at maximum capacity for bits!!! And did anybody else notice this disc is nearly 100% transparent (hold it up to a light source and look through the "Linkin Park" lettering)? Is it only a single-layer disc then?

Jeremy: Remember when using any kind of DSP effect including Dolby Pro-Logic II, you might get something that sounds better to you, but it won't be what the original musician intended you to hear. Either choice is fine....sort of, but just wanted you to know that this difference exists. And I am not sucking up to the Dolby people when I say their Pro-Logic II system can make a stereo track sound quite good in 5.1 form (I've heard it on other people's systems). And I regularly listen to Enigma's MCMXC A.D. CD using regular Pro-Logic on my receiver because it does a great job at extracting the rather aggressive ambience of this disc (if this album came out in 5.1 surround form on DTS-CD or dvd-audio I would buy it INSTANTLY--I totally mean this. Virgin/EMI, if you are you listening, there is a twenty dollar bill waiting just for you. Posted Image Posted Image ).

LJ

#14 of 26 OFFLINE   RobBenton

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Posted November 09 2003 - 05:05 PM

I doubt the 48khz was used to save space.. more then likely since it is so remixed and sampled that is just the highest they used for most of the samples in the original recording therefore that is what they used on the dvd-a. There is plenty of space for all that stuff and a 96khz surround sound mix if they chose too.. most of the times they use lower it is becuase that is what the source material is. Most dvd-a discs are at least 96khz though but there is a large minority of them that is not. Just look on the back most of them say what they are.

#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 09 2003 - 05:24 PM

i dont think this Linkin Park says what it is on the case. So if i listen to it on Multi Channel,after i press the M.C. botton on my remote, it says multi channel on my reciever, and when i push Audio on remote, it says PPCM 48k24b 6ch when i put it on Dolby Pro Logic II, the reciever says 48 PCM. of course, PLII sounds more like Surround Sound then M.C. does, but i guess that does not mean it is better.

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   RobBenton

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Posted November 09 2003 - 07:01 PM

You must not be doing something right if he plII sounds more surround sound becuase this disc is very aggressive with the rear speakers.. you should be hearing sound coming at you from all directions.. if you are not then you need to do something different as you have it set up wrong.

#17 of 26 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted November 09 2003 - 07:40 PM

Rob: didn't think about the native format thing--I think I recall that many special FX plug-ins for studio workstations and standalone components only work at 44.1 or 48kHz. :b

[quote] .......you should be hearing sound coming at you from all directions..... [quote]
Jeremy:

* many of these sounds also move in specific directions. Using a DSP mode will screw this up.

* many sounds on this disc are totally discrete, in other words one specific instrument comes from just one speaker, loud and clear. It doesn't bleed in between two or more speakers like with airy or ambient mixes, which are also what most DSP circuits do. This could be why you are hearing a more "surroundy" effect with Pro-Logic II turned on.

* I recommend listening to more discs before thinking all surround music sounds a certain way. Even surround mixers themselves have admitted they are still experimenting!

LJ

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 09 2003 - 07:43 PM

but i am not sure how i have it set up wrong.....i have all the analog connections hooked up, i went into the setup on the dvd player and set the speaker setting to Multi Channel, the PCm digital output is at 192 khz, and i turned dvd-video mode off so it plays dvd-audio in dvd-audio. what is a DSP mode? If DPLII sounds more surround, why would you want to listen in MC? i am not sure what else to do here...............

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 09 2003 - 07:52 PM

[quote] in other words one specific instrument comes from just one speaker, loud and clear [quote]

i may be hearing what you mean here, when i am listening to track 2 on LP, i can hear certain sounds coming from a single speaker.

but if i have my reciever volume at 15, and i play the song in both prologic II and MC, the PLII is louder, but not neccesarily clearer.

I have the Metallica Black Album DVD-A coming in the mail so maybe that will help me out alittle also.

#20 of 26 OFFLINE   Jeremy Scott

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Posted November 09 2003 - 08:05 PM

ok guys, sorry for all the responses here but i think i maybe i have this set up correct, and i just dont know what to expect. when i am listening to a track in DPLII, i noticed when i listen to it in MC after, it is not exactly the same, there are some words song in MC that were not in DPLII. but i definately do notice the comment that was told to me about a sound coming from a single speaker, thanks that comment helped alot.




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