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My new B & W speakers.


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33 replies to this topic

#1 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted June 29 2003 - 03:15 AM

Friday after work the realization of me not being able to upgrade for the next year or so hit me to it's full extent. ( WAF ) IMO I had absolutely great performance in the bass dept. running my duel SVS 25-31 CS+ subs, but my speakers needed to be addressed. I had been running a pair of very low level towers and center that I was just not content with. My 2880 cubic ft HT was polluted if you will.
>
So I forced myself to give Erik a call at SVS and cancel my PB2+ order I had planned on running with my duel 25-31+'s. This was very hard for me to do for I am crazy about bass and LFE, not to mention the SVS product line and the personal service SVS offers. I could go on yakking here pages and pages.
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What I wound up going with in my purchase was a pair of B&W DM 602 S3's and the B&W LCR 600 S3 center. I have found this decision has remedied the pollution factor in my room. I still will need to deal with the surrounds but this is a very much needed improvement. I am basically 100% HT and I have not been able to find one movie or scene that this B&W combo has had a problem with. The clarity and punch these speakers provide in my HT really does it for me. The tweeter in these speakers perform at a level that just makes me want to cry.> ( O so good )...
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I know there are better speakers out there and worse. The center is really opening up with the break-in and I have found the mains very open from the start. I here sounds that I have never experienced in the past with the detail and precision I have been looking for.
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Another week goes by in the all illusive quest for the best HT experience one can afford.Posted Image

#2 of 34 OFFLINE   Mike Sloan

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Posted June 29 2003 - 03:46 AM

Steve...the DM602's are really nice speakers. I helped a friend set his HT up and I was astonished how accurate and transparent those speakers were! You say you are 100% HT...but those speakers shine with music, as well! So now your left with those puny, little, pathetic, girly, "DUAL" 25-31's....probably can only hit 117db at the sitting position! The game is still in play!!!

Mike Posted Image
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain.

#3 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted June 29 2003 - 04:09 AM

Thanks Mike for the good word.
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Please go easy on me Mike. I admittedly have opened the door for you. I do think I can do about 120 dB though uncorrected. WAF or not the gig is still in play.Posted Image Please keep in mind how frail I am.

#4 of 34 OFFLINE   Mike Sloan

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Posted June 29 2003 - 05:05 AM

Steve...send me some pics of your setup...still have my Email?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain.

#5 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted June 29 2003 - 07:17 AM

I will be glad to mike. It will take a little time. I owe you some pics come to think of it. If your mail has not changed in the past few weeks? Well then I'm still up to date then... You just keep tinkering with your boat sound system and don't worry about another sub for now in the short term anyway. This solution ought to cut us both a little slack if it is agreeable with you??Posted Image

#6 of 34 OFFLINE   Mark C Wagner

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Posted June 30 2003 - 11:35 AM

Mr. Steve, ... Can't help but just love your post. I am a very true HT myself. Had an Onkyo system for over 21 years before just recently upgrading to yet another onkyo. I am from the Altec speaker days when BIGGER was better. (Late 60's early 70's)

My point is... I too am very interested in some good quality speakers and your post may have led my to some "checking it out" status.

Mostly a center and surround for now. Been told my liquid cooled poly mains are sufficient for now.

So you like the B&W LCR 600 S3 for your center ??

Thanks for your input ...
Mark

#7 of 34 OFFLINE   greg_bun

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Posted June 30 2003 - 11:58 AM

Help - I just can't decide. Between the 602 and 603 for front. I almost bought the 603's but then I mentioned that the 602's sounded brighter and the salesman stated that was becasue the 602's are loaded more toward the high end because they don't have a dedicated mid-range. I do like the 602 sound but afraid that over time with lots of different music (classical, jazz, blues) that I would miss out on some the details that I think the 603 could give. I would like to get opinions of these two speakers. Would a Denon 3802/1082 drive the 602 or 603 - was thinking I would eventually use that as a pre/pro to a Rotel amp. I was going to get the 601's for rear and probably the LCR600 center.

#8 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted June 30 2003 - 12:50 PM

Thank you Mark... Yes I like my LCR 600 S3 very much. I am finding I can throw anything and all at it and this center will perform at a level that really impresses me. After only a few hrs. of play it really started opening up.> (Like in the demo room).. When I went out demoing I forgot to bring a few DVD's along so I had to go with what was provided. When I herd the B&W set play the intro to Spider-Man flawlessly, I think that put the lid on the sale. My old speakers had a hard time with a certain horn audio sound on this movie among other movies with the same material. Generally that same horn sound is what gave my old speakers the most trouble. I have found the LCR 600 center to be as smooth, precise and detailed as I could wish for.
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I got to thinking about what mike said in a prior post in this Thread so I decided to break out a little and get wild. I went out and bought The ( EAGLES h f over ) DVD in 5.1 DTS yesterday. I decided to push them up to -0 to see how they would do and they just ate it up. WOW! These B&W's sing. Words that come to mind in describing the play at this level imo would be hard, tight, detailed, open, clear and punch. I had the bass cut way back to -10 on the receiver and even cut back on my QSC also. I know music calls for less bass but these speakers and center shine with just a LITTLE help.
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At first I had the center calibrated +2dB and then after a few hrs. of play I brought it down to a +1dB calibration and now it is calibrated the same as the mains and surrounds. It's all good.Posted Image

#9 of 34 OFFLINE   Mark C Wagner

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Posted June 30 2003 - 12:56 PM

Okay, Okay........excellent comments and thought put my way. For that a "hats off to you and a well extended hand-shake". I will be checking them out, and if it works out, I will be sure and let you know my results.

Take care !!
Mark

#10 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted June 30 2003 - 02:42 PM

Greg I wish I had the Denon 3802. This was the receiver I demoed the speakers with. Might be next? I do understand your thought process on the 2's or the 3's though. You might be better off going the next step with the 3's. The 3's would provide more performance I agree. If you question now you will most assuredly question latter?? With duel SVS's and me being 99% HT in a 2880 cubic ft. room the 2's work for me. I definitely would go with the 600 center though with ether choice.

#11 of 34 OFFLINE   Mark C.

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Posted June 30 2003 - 03:54 PM

Greg:

If your home theater is going to double as your music system also, I'd recommend going the 603 route over 602s. Now, if you have a great sub, you can probably go 602s and have a bit brighter top end. It depends on how much detail you want to hear. Denon receivers, in my opinion, are good matches with B&W and would do fine as pre/pro with Rotel. I have CDM speakers across the front (bookshelf mains) with 601s for my rears. The 601s do a great job as surrounds. I power everything with Rotel gear and have a Velodyne HGS-10 Series II sub for the bass. The Velo is dynamite.

Good Luck

#12 of 34 OFFLINE   Frank_S

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Posted July 01 2003 - 06:59 AM

You could buy the 602's now and use them for mains, then later on use them as surround speakers. You may want to upgrade to the CDM or Nautilus line in the future anyway.
I started with 602S2's years ago, then CDM, and now Nautilus. I still use the 602's for surrounds though.
Buy the best center speaker you can afford now, the LCR600 would be good.
I owned the 603's and thought they sounded a little boxy compared to the CDM line. The higher up you go in the B&W line, the better imaging and detail you get. Try to buy from a dealer who will allow you to upgrade within a year and get full trade in value from your current purchase. In this economy I think you can find one who will do that. Good luck!Posted Image


#13 of 34 OFFLINE   Mark C.

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Posted July 02 2003 - 01:14 AM

Frank:

Looks like someone's been shopping at SF Stereo.Posted Image

#14 of 34 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted July 02 2003 - 04:14 AM

When I was shopping for speakers I thought the 602s sounded as good as the 603s or better. That was quite some time ago, so they may be different now. FWIW despite upgrading my receiver a few times and even going to separates on the front end side, I've felt absolutely no compulsion to "upgrade" my original DM 602s since I bought them. I think they're the best bang-for-the-buck I've ever experienced in speakers.

Posted Image

You may find them to be all you ever want.
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#15 of 34 OFFLINE   jeff_coil

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Posted July 02 2003 - 05:14 AM

Ditto on Franks reply I started with 604's and now I have the the CDM's (9's, center and 7's). My B&M has the 1 year upgrade deal and this fall I will be moving into the Nautilus- unsure of which ones yet

#16 of 34 OFFLINE   Frank_S

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Posted July 02 2003 - 05:52 AM

Jeff, since you have the CDM 9's, I would recommend buying the 803's, that is unless 802's are in your future.
I should have gone the 803 route but chose 804's since I was going to integrate a sub. Both the 804 and 803 require a sub, IMO to reach the lower regions with authority, neither will do that alone. The 803 has a cleaner midrange at higher volumes, that was evident when I auditioned both side by side.
I'm looking at upgrading to 802's or Sonus Faber Cremonas.Posted Image

#17 of 34 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted July 02 2003 - 06:56 AM

Philip I see you use the DM2 for a center. How do you like it for a center?
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I hope I'm not starting to ponder the 3's for the mains now and using the 2's for the surrounds?? Na! I think the 1's as surrounds would suit my humble HT very well?
Posted Image

#18 of 34 OFFLINE   Jeremy Hegna

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Posted July 02 2003 - 08:16 AM

I would echo Philip's comments on the 602s...they may be the best bang for buck speakers available.

Like Frank, I started with 602s years ago (series 2) and the LCR6. I went with 603s in front 6 months later, but immediately traded them in on 604s. I was never really happy with the 603s or the 604s. I've always had a PC20-39 from SVS, so the 602s were perfect. Eventually, I traded my 604s back in for Nautilus 802s, and the LCR for an HTM1. I am moving my 602s this week to the back and replacing them with 805s on the side. I am completely happy with my system now, but I do a ton of music listening, probably 70/30 compared with HT. I've been into vinyl for a while and just recently got involved in SACD and DVD-A, hence the need for the 805s.

The B&Ws are excellent speakers and the trickle down technology from the Nautilus line to the CDMs and 600 series is very evident. If you are strictly in this hobby for HT, the 600 series may be all you ever need. If you get into critical music listening, you may feel the desire to upgrade eventually...even though, IMO, the 602s are stellar performers for their price with music.

Enjoy the new system, add more woofin' later..

Peace

#19 of 34 OFFLINE   jeff_coil

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Posted July 02 2003 - 11:03 AM

Frank- The 802 might be in my future......crossing fingers. I have some amp upgrading to as well. But I agree if not the 803 are the next step. Have you heard the Sonus Faber's? I have no clue where to audition these around here, would be worth a drive?
Take care

Oh one more thing who makes that center stand?

#20 of 34 OFFLINE   greg_bun

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Posted July 02 2003 - 12:37 PM

I am in a real dilemna now! I went to another store that sells B&W - they had the 600 series, CM series and CDM 7NT in the same room. First time I've gotten to listen to all together. I started comparing the 602/603, then went to the CM4 and finally the 7NT. I knew I could not afford the 7NT but wanted to hear it. So that was really out of the mix. I purchased the Ultimate Demo Disk from Chesky records - has a really good mixture of music and it tells you what you should hear on each track. On most tracks there was some difference between the 603 and CM4, with the CM4 always better. But on a couple, espically one by Monty Alexander there was a big difference between the 603 and CM4. The CM4 was much cleaner - this track has two distinct drum sets - I could not hear them with the 603 but it was very clear on the CM4. So, then I compared the CM4 and 602 with this track - while the CM4 was definitely better, I could hear the two distinct drum sets with the 602. That was suprising!

Has anyone else compared these series? What were your impressions? The CM series would be over twice as much as the 600 series.
1. If I went with the CM series - CM4 for front, CMC center and CM2 surround - would I need a better receiver than the Denon 3802/1082? They had a Rotel 1066 processor and some amp I had never heard of - something like Espirt.
2. Could I mix the 601 for surrounds with the CM4/CMC - while the exterior would look a lot different unless I went with the black ash on both, would it matter mixing the two series since the 601 would be just for surround.
3. What makes the CM series better than the 600? I noticed that the 600 series has a flowport in the front while the CM series port(s) are in the back. Does that make a big difference?