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Dual SVS PC-Plus 16-46 VS. P2B+ ??


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#1 of 29 OFFLINE   Tom_Maher

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Posted May 19 2003 - 08:26 AM

I currently own an SVS PC-Plus 16-46. While it is a great sub with excellent lows, it lacks the oomph of some other subs (such as Klipsch for instance). I had intended to add another to get both deep lows and the oomph I was looking for, but then of course, the P2B+ is right on its way. Would two SVS PC-Plus 16-46s deliver both deeper lows and more oomph than a P2B+? Or would it be a waste of money to spend another 875 for a setup inferior to that delivered by the P2B+? Thanks for all the help!
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread lightly because you tread on my dreams. -- Yeats

#2 of 29 OFFLINE   TommyL

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Posted May 19 2003 - 08:52 AM

man, lacks the oomph? everything calibrated properly? what are you hitting on the old spl meter....the 16-46 is set to give you those low/lows....but I haven't heard it not give you a kick in the ass Posted Image I'd email TV, and see what he thinks...give him room size, and placement...fax it if ya can...he'll help you decide what to do...tom

#3 of 29 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted May 19 2003 - 09:32 AM

By "oomph"" do you means spl's ? I know the low end is there. I'd think the PB2+ would crush the spl department..
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#4 of 29 OFFLINE   Tom_Maher

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Posted May 19 2003 - 09:51 AM

It certainly has the lows and I can feel it shake my pants and and rattle the walls. What it lacks are the 'booms' of other subs, the loud 'feel it in your gut' kind of bass that Klipsch provides (though I prefer controlled low bass to loud 'boom' bass if I have to choose between the two, which is why I originally went with SVS over Klipsch). I find it very hard to describe and the best comparison I can draw would be between what I hear/feel now and a Klipsch sub with louder more boomy bass. Essentially, I'm looking for both the low pant shaking of the 16-46 with gut wrenching booms. I suppose I want to hear my bass as much as I can feel it. I hope I have made some sense, heh Posted Image. Thanks again!
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread lightly because you tread on my dreams. -- Yeats

#5 of 29 OFFLINE   Chip E

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Posted May 19 2003 - 10:04 AM

Tom, sounds like your looking for spl's. The PB2+ is just the ticket.. I'm going to order one and plug one port to get the kick in the chest you want and some serious LFE rumble. Posted Image

I bought an original 20-39PC over two years ago for the best of both worlds.. time for an upgrade. Posted Image
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#6 of 29 OFFLINE   Lynn Little

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Posted May 19 2003 - 10:09 AM

"What it lacks are the 'booms' of other subs, the loud 'feel it in your gut' kind of bass that Klipsch provides (though I prefer controlled low bass to loud 'boom' bass if I have to choose between the two, which is why I originally went with SVS over Klipsch)."

Maybe what you really need is a 25-31 PC+ (or two). Or maybe something besides a SVS. I have twin 16-46PC+s in my HT, and I can't imagine wanting more "booms"...
Lynn Olan Little

#7 of 29 OFFLINE   Lynn Little

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Posted May 19 2003 - 10:24 AM

BTW, when I said, "Or maybe something besides a SVS.", that sounded a bit rude. Sorry about that! That was NOT my intention.

"Would two SVS PC-Plus 16-46s deliver both deeper lows and more oomph than a P2B+?"

Having never heard a P2B+, I can't say. What I can say is that twin 16-46PC+s are an absolute joy to hear/feel! Not the least bit boomy, but what bass is there to be reproduced, is done so in a truly unforgettable manner.

"email TV, and see what he thinks...give him room size, and placement..."

I'd do that before I went much farther. Even when I only had a single 16-46PC+, I was blown away by the performance. Then again, I have the PERFECT corner in my HT...
Lynn Olan Little

#8 of 29 OFFLINE   Tom_Maher

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Posted May 19 2003 - 10:26 AM

Just to clarify, I currently only have one PC+ 16-46. I love the sub, but it doesn't quite deliver the boom I've heard from other subs (though I do love the lows it can get). Essentially, I am asking whether it would be better to purchase a second PC+ 16-46 or to sell my existing 16-46 and get a P2B+. If dual PC+ 16-46s will give me the lows I get now AND the boom I'm looking for, I would not hesitant to purchase another. If, however, the P2B+ (at 1,200) is a bigger hitter alone than dual PC+ 16-46s (totalling about 1,750 together) it would make more sense to simply sell my current PC+ and pick up a d P2B+.
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread lightly because you tread on my dreams. -- Yeats

#9 of 29 OFFLINE   TommyL

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Posted May 19 2003 - 11:24 AM

tom...the answer is simple...email tomV at SVS...trust me, he will NOT oversell you at all...his email is: tomv@svsubwoofers.com

#10 of 29 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted May 19 2003 - 11:47 AM

Tom I think the PB2+ with the 25 Hz tune might just be the ticket. I went with a 25-31cs+ for just the reason you speak of. It caries punch that wont quit and has plenty of extension for my tastes. It really does have authority in the lower freqs. (Room Gain) No it wont go as low as the 16-46 but packs the slam that some like and no boom. You can always play around with the tuning of the PB2+ also. Considering what your looking for in bass? I think you would really like the PB2+ or a 25-31+. Of course the PB2+ would be better and give you more options and headroom. Posted Image Good luck and Tom V would most assuredly suggest the right sub for your tastes.

#11 of 29 OFFLINE   Tom_Maher

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Posted May 19 2003 - 12:16 PM

Thanks once again for the help. I have fired off an email to SVS describing exactly what I am looking for as per your suggestions. Hopefully with their help I can find the subwoofer package I am looking for!
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread lightly because you tread on my dreams. -- Yeats

#12 of 29 OFFLINE   Zack_R

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Posted May 19 2003 - 01:06 PM

Quote:
Just to clarify, I currently only have one PC+ 16-46. I love the sub, but it doesn't quite deliver the boom I've heard from other subs (though I do love the lows it can get).


Have you tried reversing the phase and checking the difference in SPL at the seating location? I can't stress, at the seating location , enough when you perform this test.

For example if I have my Ultra with a normal polarity hook-up, the bass output is tremedous through all sub frequencies when I am standing in-between and beside my front speakers. However when I move back to the seating location 13-14 feet away, all that strong bass disappears. When I reverse the polarity the exact opposite happens. There is hardly any bass up front, in-between, or directly beside my speakers but when I move back to the seating location the bass level is tremendous. The SPL meter verifies what my ears and body are telling me. Loss of the boom factor will normally occur around the crossover frequency, 65 -100 Hz typically. The reason you may not have bass defeciency down low is by that time your front speakers have been rolled off enough that the cancellation factor is reduced / eliminated.

This was the very same impression I had with my Ultra before I reversed the polarity. It would shake the house on the Toy Story 2 intro but would be absent on most music material.

Just trying to help because boom (clean boom) is not necessarily a result of achieving high SPLs but instead avoiding cancellation in the boom frequencies. Even at low volumes I get plenty of clean boom.Posted Image

#13 of 29 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted May 19 2003 - 02:24 PM

Yes that does remind me Zack that if My mains are not toed just right I get cancellation going and the TV with the center on top has to be positioned just so also to get the best performance in my bass.

#14 of 29 OFFLINE   Kip Lackey

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Posted May 21 2003 - 01:01 PM

I went with the SVS 20-39PCi to get a bit of the low end as well as some "oomph". Fit my budget and I fully expect it to crush my Boston PV400 just like the SVS animation showsPosted Image

#15 of 29 OFFLINE   Gordon Groff

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Posted May 23 2003 - 12:38 AM

I'm guessing you need more in the "upper" low to get what you're looking for here. The 16-46 is tuned for the lowest of the low. My Ultra (tuned at 20) gives incredible, dynamic "punch"!!

Like others have said, check your placement and other possible issues first.

Gordon
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#16 of 29 OFFLINE   Frank Carter

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Posted May 23 2003 - 05:14 AM

I wonder if it's possible for SVS to make custom ports for you that would tune it a little higher. This might give you the extra impact you're looking for. When messing with the tuning on my Ultra, I did notice there was a bit more impact with the stock 20hz tune than with the 16hz.

This way you could see if you'd be happy sith something that's tuned higher like the PB2-Plus w/out selling your current sub. It's worth an email to TV.

#17 of 29 OFFLINE   Richard Little

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Posted June 23 2003 - 11:07 AM

Anybody experimented and found an answer the original question?

#18 of 29 OFFLINE   Zack_R

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Posted June 23 2003 - 12:04 PM

Well another way to get more oomph would be to increase the bass level on your receiver a couple of dbs or just boost the sub level. I'm sure the 1646 plus has enough headroom to take some bass and/or sub level boosting. Beyond doing that, the Klipsh sub may produce more harmonics in the higher bass frequencies and that can make the bass sound more pronouced, albeit less accurate.

From what I've read about ported subs I don't think there would be too much of a difference between a 25 hz tuned sub versus a 16 hz tuned sub until around 40Hz or so when the 25 Hz tuned sub begins to utilize the ports. I'm thinking the oomph Tom may be missing is more in the 60-80 hz range.

I think the 16Hz Plus sub sub is capable of putting out over 100 dbs of spl in most rooms between it's tuning poing and the typical 80 Hz crossover. On a calibrated system. This would be considered very loud for music.

Quote:
I did notice there was a bit more impact with the stock 20hz tune than with the 16hz.


Frank, the difference in the stock tuning of my Ultra and the 16 Hz setting is literally zero from 94 hz down to 28-29 Hz. From the 29Hz to 16 - 17Hz range, the stock tune has anywhere from a 1 to a 7db advantage. Once I get beyond 16 hz the lower tuned setting has the advantage. I'd say the average difference between those frequencies is around 4-5 dbs.

So for movies and certain music their could be a significant difference. But for most music there is minimal difference in the two tuning options from a frequency curve standpoint. However,I don't know if the lower tune affects group delay, transient or other subwoofer speak. If it does, this could make the stock tune sound better even though the frequency response idicates there is minimal difference.

#19 of 29 OFFLINE   JohnRuggiero

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Posted June 23 2003 - 02:52 PM

Sound related technologies has a new kind of subwoofer that goes into the hyrosonic range 6-40 Hz but using water in enclosed vinly bags . A specially designed woofer produces sound pressure (within the enclosure) that acts on the water inducing sound vibrations in the fluid. the vibration readly couples to the substrate on which the inclosure rests. thus a sinusoidal input toe the SRT/IBS sub will produce a sound pressure in air as was as a vibratory displacement in the liquid at the same driving frequenies with little or no distortion. In other word you feel the sound in your guts (as well as your whole body even your cloths) as well as hear it. It is in many Cinemas now and they are just getting into the home theater market. they have a Home theater version IBS-10 and IBS-8. the web site is www.soundrelatedtechnologies.com I am getting one by the end of next week and I will post my review once I get it. It might be something you may want to look into.

#20 of 29 OFFLINE   JohnRuggiero

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Posted June 23 2003 - 02:56 PM

Sorry the web site is www.soundrelatedtech.com and their phone # is 1-800-718-5716 thanks John





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