Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Need Help With Speaker & Furniture Placement


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
11 replies to this topic

#1 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 01 2003 - 04:05 AM

Hello everybody!

I’m finally going to be ordering the last of my equipment and setting up my home theater, but I don’t know where to place the speakers and furniture in my room. I’ve spent so many hours trying to figure out where to put the furniture that I get a headache every time I think about it. I need your help!

Here is a to-scale layout of my living room:
[c]Posted Image[/c]

I’ll be posting the information regarding my furniture and speaker placement in separate posts so that it isn’t all one huge post.
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#2 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 01 2003 - 04:07 AM

— Speakers —

I don’t think speaker placement is going to be that big of a deal, but I thought it would be interesting to hear some different opinions.

Equipment:
57” Toshiba 57HX81 RPTV
Harman Kardon AVR-525 A/V Receiver
1 x JBL S-CENTERII Speaker (CTR)
4 x JBL S-38II Bookshelf Speakers (LS, RS, RLS, and RRS)
2 x JBL S-312II Floor-standing Speakers (FL and FR)
SVS 20-39 PC-Plus Subwoofer (SUB)

This is what I have planned:
Tom, from SVS, suggested the placement of the subwoofer.
[c]Posted Image[/c]
Click here to download the original Photoshop .PSD file.

The S-38II’s would be hung on the wall using small DIY shelves tilted at an angle as to direct the sound towards key seating, but someone told me that they thought the rear speakers should be closer to the key seating. I think that would be kind of hard to do; I would have to hang them from the ceiling somehow. From what I’ve heard about the JBL S-38II’s, there are no mounting mechanisms on them at all.

What do you guys think? BTW, how high up the wall should the speakers be?
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#3 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 01 2003 - 04:08 AM

— Furniture —

This is how I have it setup right now, but the furniture needs to somehow face the new position of the TV (shown in the speaker layout above):
[c]Posted Image[/c]
Click here to download the original Photoshop .PSD file.

As you can see, there are three recliners and two sofas. I want the recliners to have a good view of the TV, as well as at least one sofa…

…see how frustrating it is? Posted Image Posted Image

Feel free to mess with the above image and move stuff around—that’s what I’ve been doing. If you can’t post the image after you’ve changed it around because you have nowhere to host it, email it to me at gamemaster128@attbi.com.

BTW, the fireplace is actually directly under the mantel. The area that I have labeled “Fireplace” on the layout is just the tiling that surrounds the fireplace. Therefore, I could place furniture on it, but it would block off the fireplace and just look… funny.
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#4 of 12 OFFLINE   sean_pecor

sean_pecor

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 137 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 05 2003

Posted May 01 2003 - 06:30 AM

The door / doorway / mantel placement is dreadful for Home Theater seating...

Do you own this house?

If you do then get rid of that fireplace. You live in Portland, Oregon right? Do you really need to stoke a fire in a place that rarely (if ever) sees below freezing temperatures? Posted Image I'm sure it looks good, but if it's just for show then there are other ways to make a living room look nice, like for example a grand piano, some framed art, a reading nook, etc.

With that said, here is my suggestion (the rear sofa would be put on a riser so the people could have an unobstructed view of the TV) :

Posted Image


I moved your TV out of it's corner position because that position is terrible for 5.1 surround sound. Plus, with the TV angled in the corner there is no good way to get 1 sofa and 3 recliners in view of the TV without blocking your front door.

Sean.
President, Lead Developer
Digital Spinner, Inc.
http://www.digitalspinner.com

#5 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 01 2003 - 08:49 AM

Quote:
The door / doorway / mantel placement is dreadful for Home Theater seating...

Do you own this house?

If you do then get rid of that fireplace. You live in Portland, Oregon right? Do you really need to stoke a fire in a place that rarely (if ever) sees below freezing temperatures? I'm sure it looks good, but if it's just for show then there are other ways to make a living room look nice, like for example a grand piano, some framed art, a reading nook, etc.

It gets below freezing quite a bit during the winter here in Portland. It just doesn't get very far below zero, nor does it stay below zero for very long. Believe it or not, we do get snow every once in a while.

Yes, I own this house. I don't really need a fireplace, but this house is at least 80+ years old (owned it for 28 years), so I'm sure it was originally used quite often. The fireplace and chimney are completely made of brick and mortar from the basement all the way to the rooftop. There would be no easy way for me to get rid of it. Sure, it could be done, but it would cost a few grand and might compromise the house's structural integrity. I would have to reinforce everything... I don't think it would be worth the time or the investment.

Quote:
I moved your TV out of it's corner position because that position is terrible for 5.1 surround sound. Plus, with the TV angled in the corner there is no good way to get 1 sofa and 3 recliners in view of the TV without blocking your front door.

I know for a fact that I described my situation in great detail above, but I'm guessing you kind of skimmed through it since there was a lot to read.

Anyway, I know that is a bad position for a TV with surround sound. That is why I said this:
Quote:
This is how I have it setup right now, but the furniture needs to somehow face the NEW position of the TV (shown in the speaker layout above):

BTW, this is going to be a 7.1 setup, not 5.1. Look at my second post that talks about the speaker placement so that you know what I was referring to and where I want everything to be.

I posted that speaker & TV layout first so that you could help me figure out where to put the furniture after knowing where the speakers & TV would be located at.
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#6 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 02 2003 - 01:38 AM

[c]Posted Image I thought you guys would me more willing to help me. Posted Image[/c]

Well, I guess I'll share with you three different possible layouts that I've come up with. I was hoping that someone could come up with some better ideas.

[c]Posted Image[/c]

[c]Posted Image[/c]

[c]Posted Image[/c]

Proposed Portable Riser Dimensions:
5' long
8' wide
8" high?
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#7 of 12 OFFLINE   sean_pecor

sean_pecor

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 137 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 05 2003

Posted May 02 2003 - 03:14 AM

Sorry I didn't read your first request completely Posted Image Here is another concept to consider:

http://extranet.digi....uggestion2.png

You could build a portable riser for at least the closest sofa, and perhaps another for the rear that is somewhat larger. Other issues addressed are: the center recliner has a direct line of sight and the best viewing position. The other recliners are angled 30 degrees, giving a non-claustrophobia inducing view of the room from the front door. You could put a nice round coffee table to service the 3 recliners.

Sean.
President, Lead Developer
Digital Spinner, Inc.
http://www.digitalspinner.com

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   Larry Chanin

Larry Chanin

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 218 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 24 2001

Posted May 02 2003 - 06:02 AM

Derek,

My room dimensions are very close to what you have, but I don't have enough height to build a riser. Click on my signature below to see a diagram of my layout.

I favor your next to last layout. Contrary to what your friend suggested, I believe you need a minimum of 6 feet between the rear seating and your rear surround speakers for a 7.1 configuration.

In narrow rooms such as ours I think it would be helpful to use dipole side surrounds to avoid that "IN YOUR FACE" effect from being too close to a speaker. If you must go with direct radiating side surrounds I would mount them higher than I would with dipoles and aim them over your head, i.e., not directed at the listener.

For the rear surrounds I went with direct radiating and pointed them down toward the listeners since they are more than 6 feet from the nearest listener. In that way they don't over power the important sounds coming from the front array.

I think you'll find if you were to draw a scale profile of your room with sight lines that you will run into trouble with only an 8" riser. The reason is that the screen on a rear projection TV doesn't sit high enough to provide clear sight lines from the rear seating. I suspect that even with a 12" riser you will encounter some line of sight problems.

As a quick rough approximation take my profile drawing and draw sight lines to my HDTV. You'll see what I mean.

Good luck.

Larry
Larry's Home Theater

#9 of 12 OFFLINE   sean_pecor

sean_pecor

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 137 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 05 2003

Posted May 02 2003 - 03:24 PM

Quote:
I favor your next to last layout. Contrary to what your friend suggested, I believe you need a minimum of 6 feet between the rear seating and your rear surround speakers for a 7.1 configuration.


Nope. Dolby simply recommends the rear surrounds to be within 60-90 degrees of the listening position (30-45 degrees for left and right). This has more to do with how far they are apart from eachother, in relation to the listener,

Sean.
President, Lead Developer
Digital Spinner, Inc.
http://www.digitalspinner.com

#10 of 12 OFFLINE   Larry Chanin

Larry Chanin

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 218 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 24 2001

Posted May 03 2003 - 08:23 AM

Hi Sean,

I assume you are referring to Dolby's guidelines regarding their Surround EX standard which state:

Quote:
If you use a single rear surround speaker, center it behind the listening area at the same height as the side surround speakers, preferably above ear level. If you use two back surround speakers, which give a more diffuse and natural surround effect, they should be at least four feet apart (creating an included angle of about 90 degrees to the listener), also centered behind the listening area and at the same height as the side surround speakers.

However, Surround EX is not a true 7.1 presentation in which the rear surrounds are in stereo. Derek is planning on using a Harman Kardon AVR-525 which has LOGIC 7 processing, one of the best 7.1 processes available. It delivers stereo surround back signals. This is much superior to Surround EX which delivers a mono surround back signal to both rear speakers assuming you are using two speakers.

With stereo rears I don't think you would want to be seated too close (say two feet or less) to the speakers for the same reason that you wouldn't sit two feet from your front stereo speakers.

Dennis Erskine, a respected home theater designer, usually recommends a distance of 8-10 feet which admittedly is frequently difficult to achieve in typical rooms.

I have a Lexicon MC-8, which also uses LOGIC 7 processing. Many of the Lexicon owners like to have the listeners a respectable distance from the rear speakers because having stereo rears they space their speaker wide apart. The wider the spacing the more distance you will want, to maintain a somewhat equilateral triangle between the speakers and the listener.

Here is an excerpt from a white paper from Dr.Griesinger, the designer of LOGIC 7:

Quote:
Rear speaker placement is somewhat less critical. Here the main goal for both film and music is to produce a diffuse and enveloping soundfield. The height of rear speakers will depend on both room size and furnishing.In general, placement of the rear speaker(s) above the listening area can be very effective. Note, however, that placing these speakers too high in a narrow room, or at the ceiling, may reduce the spaciousness of the sound.
For maximum envelopment the rear speakers should be widely spaced — preferably near the side walls.

Now having made these points, nevertheless I have to conceed that the Harman Kardon users manual recommends not placing the rear speakers over 6 feet from the listener. Posted Image Oh well, I guess the manual writers didn't get around to reading Dr.Griesinger's paper. Posted Image

Larry
Larry's Home Theater

#11 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 03 2003 - 10:37 AM

Quote:
Sorry I didn't read your first request completely Here is another concept to consider:

http://extranet.digi...suggestion2.png

You could build a portable riser for at least the closest sofa, and perhaps another for the rear that is somewhat larger. Other issues addressed are: the center recliner has a direct line of sight and the best viewing position. The other recliners are angled 30 degrees, giving a non-claustrophobia inducing view of the room from the front door. You could put a nice round coffee table to service the 3 recliners.

Sean.

Thanks for your suggestion Sean. I already thought about doing something like that, but I decided that it wouldn't be worth the trouble to make another riser just so there would be one more place to sit. If I didn't make another riser, I would have lost two additional seats that I would have had if I went with my second layout.
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread

#12 of 12 OFFLINE   Derek Iverson

Derek Iverson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 191 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 10 2002

Posted May 03 2003 - 11:08 AM

Quote:
In narrow rooms such as ours I think it would be helpful to use dipole side surrounds to avoid that "IN YOUR FACE" effect from being too close to a speaker. If you must go with direct radiating side surrounds I would mount them higher than I would with dipoles and aim them over your head, i.e., not directed at the listener.
I WOULD use dipole surrounds, but JBL doesn't have any in their Studio series. I want all the speakers to match (same manufacturer and speaker series) so that they don't sound different.

I think I'll be mounting all my surrounds near the ceiling and pointing them towards the listeners. Since my side surrounds will be much closer to the listeners than the rear surrounds will be, I'll probably not angle them as greatly.
Quote:
I think you'll find if you were to draw a scale profile of your room with sight lines that you will run into trouble with only an 8" riser. The reason is that the screen on a rear projection TV doesn't sit high enough to provide clear sight lines from the rear seating. I suspect that even with a 12" riser you will encounter some line of sight problems.

As a quick rough approximation take my profile drawing and draw sight lines to my HDTV. You'll see what I mean.

You're right. I wasn't sure that it would work either; that is why I put the question mark at the end of my proposed riser dimensions above. Based on my calculations, a 12" riser should work perfect for me, but I made a to-scale profile with just the TV and sofas to make sure.

http://diverson.home....om-profile.gif

Looks like it will work. Posted Image
BTW, the placement of the small heads above the sofas are based on where my head is at when I sit on them (I'm about 5' 11").
My Home Theater
My DVD Collection

“JBL S-Series + SVS = ” - Phil Iturralde
----------------------------------------------------
The Portland, OR & Vancouver, WA HT Meet Thread


Back to Members' Theaters, HT Projects, Remotes, Seating, Accessories & Lighting



Forum Nav Content I Follow