WHV Announcement: Tom & Jerry Golden Collection Volume Two (Blu-ray) (DVD) (4 Viewers)

[Greg Chenoweth]

Ron: Any word from the WHV Marketing Director on answers for our questions? It'd be nice to hear something before the shutdown this weekend. Thanks.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Hi Greg! Trust that as soon as I get any word from WHV that I will pass it on here. I think that these things generally take time. I would believe the studio wants to carefully orchestrate their responses. This is something that doesn't take overnight. I would not expect any answers prior to tomorrow's shutdown, but if it comes you can bet I'll let all of you know.

 

[Timothy E]

Originally Posted by CDCB
Then that's just disappointing. Honestly, the removal and denial of these shorts from Golden Collection Volume 2 is more offensive than the shorts themselves.
Check out this image I made in protest:

With reference to this post by CDCB, I understand that the images on the above right ("what they let us see") are stills from cartoon shorts that were already released uncensored by Warner Brothers on The Tom & Jerry Golden Collection Volume 1.
The images on the above left('what they won't let us see") are stills from the shorts "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat."
If the studio is taking the position that the images on the left are offensive but the images on the right are not, I confess that I do not see the difference.

 

[Ruz-El]

I think we should remember too that the PR person is the messenger in this case and might not get a response to the concerns we've mentioned despite their intentions. Intentions which should be applauded since it would be far easier to ignore.

 

[steevo54]

I agree that various "spokesmen" are mere messengers for the company. I wrote Kevin Tsujihara, a very professional letter detailing my thoughts on the issue. To date, I have not heard back from him or his deputy. This amazes me, as it smacks of indifference to the consumer. Warner's is WELL aware of how we all fell about this issue. They CAN fix this and Blu Ray technology allows for content to be accessed with measures that ensure that. Corporate stupidity is rampant in present day America, once great corporations are circling the drain because they ignored the consumer. J.C. Penney is a classic example, they were once my favorite department store and I bought tons of clothing and household merchandise from them. The they get a "wonder boy" CEO from Apple who tries to sell general merchandise like he did i phones. Result? A disaster and the company is bleeding red ink. Merchandise is scant and it seems they are circling the drain, all because the CEO refused to listen to the consumer. Hear that Warner Brothers??? LISTEN to the consumer! We buy your product, you made it abundantly clear that this set was for ADULT collectors and labeled it as such. Make it COMPLETE or we won't buy it. Stop being so cavalier to your bread and butter.

 

[sewolawen73]

Hi Greg! Trust that as soon as I get any word from WHV that I will pass it on here. I think that these things generally take time.  I would believe the studio wants to carefully orchestrate their responses.  This is something that doesn't take overnight. I would not expect any answers prior to tomorrow's shutdown, but if it comes you can bet I'll let all of you know.

Orchestrate their responses? How long could it possibly take to orchestrate this response?: Loyal customers, we sincerely apologize at the error of our ways as we forgot that this collection was intended for the adult collector. We will immediately restore the 2 shorts in question as well as leave all remaining shorts restored and unaltered for the rest of the series. To show how much we appreciate your loyalty, accept this 20% promo code for the future release of Volume 3 as well as another 10% promo code for the forthcoming release of The Censored 11. Again, we sincerely apologize for our unfortunate error. Well, a guy can dream, can he? Let's see what they come up with.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by sewolawen73
Orchestrate their responses? How long could it possibly take to orchestrate this response?:
Loyal customers, we sincerely apologize at the error of our ways as we forgot that this collection was intended for the adult collector. We will immediately restore the 2 shorts in question as well as leave all remaining shorts restored and unaltered for the rest of the series. To show how much we appreciate your loyalty, accept this 20% promo code for the future release of Volume 3 as well as another 10% promo code for the forthcoming release of The Censored 11. Again, we sincerely apologize for our unfortunate error.
Well, a guy can dream, can he?
Let's see what they come up with.

I'm putting money on this:

Warner Bros. Home Entertainment carefully monitors all content it plans for release. While undertaking a review of "Tom and Jerry: The Golden Collection Volume 2," the company felt that certain content would be inappropriate for the intended audience and therefore excluded several shorts.

 

[sewolawen73]

I'm putting money on this: Warner Bros. Home Entertainment carefully monitors all content it plans for release. While undertaking a review of "Tom and Jerry: The Golden Collection Volume 2," the company felt that certain content would be inappropriate for the intended audience and therefore excluded several shorts.

Sweet Odin! I will officially lose it and laugh like a crazed madman if they hit us with that bullet after taking days to "orchestrate" a response!

 

[TravisR]

Warner's is WELL aware of how we all fell about this issue.

Yes, they've known how people feel for years and they continue to keep them hidden. That should tell everyone that their fear far exceeds all the complaints about them leaving out the cartoons. I'm all for people making their voices heard and I hope this set sells terribly but there is nothing that will make them release these cartoons again.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Guys, You know what? Give Warner a break for the moment. They were kind enough to offer to answer all your questions, and while they are away doing so, you continue to slam them in anticipation of the answers you think you are going to receive. It's no wonder why we have such a hard time getting studios to participate on these forums. Wait until they offer their response and then offer feedback based on that.

 

[Ejanss]

Yes, they've known how people feel for years and they continue to keep them hidden. That should tell everyone that their fear far exceeds all the complaints about them leaving out the cartoons. I'm all for people making their voices heard and I hope this set sells terribly but there is nothing that will make them release these cartoons again.

Secret is, Warner wants their cartoon and TV-rerun boxsets to be easy. (It doesn't help that "not enough", unquote, people bought the Yogi Bear and 30's Popeye 4-disk boxes as they thought would, and permanently scared the crap out of them for life. And yes, I'm still waiting for that second Huckleberry Hound box, even as an Archive.) "Collectors'" boxsets are very hard, you see, since they run to 3-4 disks per box, have to include everything, and make sure it's studio-restored. What a wonderful world it would be, Warner sometimes sits back and dreams, if people actually bought every boxset the way they do at Target: With just little 2-disk "theme" and Best-of sets, released quickly and with low turnaround profit, on shelves just every couple months at big holiday times, whenever they feel like it, with just a few easy handchosen 'audience favorites" instead of scholastically studying the catalog. Ohh, it's wonderful to dream... Problem is, every time they try to make that dream a reality, the Reality of collectors' audiences bounces back on them and kicks their hinder for it. We frequently see Warner get resentful and search for their undiscerning El Dorado anyway, in the hopes they can finally toss over their perpetual high-maintenance date: Every time a series or new cartoon comes out, it will first be as that mythical Cheap Best-Of, in the hopes there'll be enough Target mass-market audiences to make it more profitable than the collectors' audiences, and Warner can thumb their nose at the snooty Looney-box guardians and say "We don't need you anymore, THEY understand us at Wal-Mart!" Someday, they believe, it'll happen, and they can sit back and relax. But it hasn't yet.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by Ejanss
Secret is, Warner wants their cartoon and TV-rerun boxsets to be easy. (It doesn't help that "not enough", unquote, people bought the Yogi Bear and 30's Popeye 4-disk boxes as they thought would, and permanently scared the crap out of them for life.)
"Collectors'" boxsets are very hard, you see, since they run to 3-4 disks per box, have to include everything, and make sure it's studio-restored. What a wonderful world it would be, Warner sometimes sits back and dreams, if people actually bought every boxset the way they do at Target: With just little 2-disk "theme" and Best-of sets, released quickly and with low turnaround profit, on shelves just every couple months at big holiday times, whenever they feel like it, with just a few easy handchosen 'audience favorites" instead of scholastically studying the catalog. Ohh, it's wonderful to dream...
Problem is, every time they try to make that dream a reality, the Reality of collectors' audiences bounces back on them and kicks their hinder for it. We frequently see Warner get resentful and search for their undiscerning El Dorado anyway, in the hopes they can finally toss over their perpetual high-maintenance date: Every time a series or new cartoon comes out, it will first be as that mythical Cheap Best-Of, in the hopes there'll be enough Target mass-market audiences to make it more profitable than the collectors' audiences, and Warner can thumb their nose at the snooty Looney-box guardians and say "We don't need you anymore, THEY understand us at Wal-Mart!"
Someday, they believe, it'll happen, and they can sit back and relax. But it hasn't yet.

I don't think any of this has anything to do with the exclusion of these cartoons. As far as we know it has nothing to do with finding materials in good shape: which would be the difficult thing in doing a fresh boxset. It's a case of not liking what's depicted in the material: a totally different problem and one based completely on personal/corporate opinion.
And we all know what's said about opinions and how we all have one.

 

[Greg Chenoweth]

Guys, You know what?  Give Warner a break for the moment. They were kind enough to offer to answer all your questions, and while  they are away doing so, you continue to slam them in anticipation of the answers you think you are going to receive. It's no wonder why we have such a hard time getting studios to participate on these forums. Wait until they offer their response and then offer feedback based on that.

I agree, Ron. In the past, no studio would have ever offered to answer questions or explain their line of thinking for how these sets were put together. We don't know what their answers will be but they are willing to listen to us and hear our viewpoint - that is huge. They have offered to review the questions and now we have to give them time to answer them. They have to do this among the rest of their regular workload.

 

[trans8010]

I believe that has more to do with the advent of social media. Anybody can write blogs or start petitions and with reviews on amazon as a major source of information for studios and any corporate entity selling their products. This spreads awareness, and through awareness a demand for action. Before social media all we had was a telephone number or a letter writing campaign and while hundreds of thousands of letters and calls may have come pouring in to the PR departments, the heads could have ignored them and simply dlivered a statement that read the demand wasnt great for our cause and the company felt that the product will be released as intended by the studio and would be more cost effective. With the internet we now can safely estimate just how many in numbers our fanbase is and with that it makes it hard for Warner or any other company to make any kind of statement without any backlash.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

If Warner was worth giving the benefit of the doubt, this issue wouldn't exist in the first place; there'd be no need for us to discuss this here. As far as I'm concerned, even the nastiest and most insulting criticism over this is too flattering and lenient.

 

[Ejanss]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with the exclusion of these cartoons. As far as we know it has nothing to do with finding materials in good shape: which would be the difficult thing in doing a fresh boxset. It's a case of not liking what's depicted in the material: a totally different problem and one based completely on personal/corporate opinion.

Think it DOES have to do with it: T&J is not high on most cartoon connosseuir's lists, but Warner owns them as a Trademark, so Warner wants to sell them to parents who want to show them to their kids. Parents, of course, don't want all the icky 40's baggage, and wouldn't mind if it was "laundered" a bit, and aren't as completist about seeing every MGM classic archived, they just want to indoctrinate their offspring on the references they grew up with. That's the "easy" Dream Audience Warner sits back and searches for, and they didn't think there'd be enough core "collector" T&J fans to spoil their fun. (Heck, the parents bought the pirates and Oz movies, maybe they'll buy the old toons now, now that their kids have heard of 'em.) Of course, I'm speaking as a core Looney and Flintstones fan, and....they don't mess with us no more. Some cartoon fandoms, like the Disney fans who clamor for Song of the South or to have Pecos Bill get his cigarette back, drive studios to distraction with "You cut this, and I wanna see it back because it's neato and forbidden!"...Geez, that drives them right up the wall. (Insert last Bob Iger Disney-stockholders anti-fanboy joke here.) But what Bugs, Fred and Popeye had, and Huck and Quick-Draw sadly didn't, was a fandom organized enough to rush to the artistic defense of WHY the cartoon should be archived in its pristine form, and not simply slapped in a box and sold to parents at Easter family-video rush. Can T&J fans muster that much? (I don't know, I've never met any personally. ) I appreciate Warner reps taking the time to listen to us in the Forum (they used to, but became infamous later on for doing more talking than listening-- But to paraphrase any number of Corleones or Sopranos, it's a matter of respect.

 

[Ejanss]

Guys, You know what? Give Warner a break for the moment. They were kind enough to offer to answer all your questions, and while they are away doing so, you continue to slam them in anticipation of the answers you think you are going to receive. It's no wonder why we have such a hard time getting studios to participate on these forums. Wait until they offer their response and then offer feedback based on that.

Yeah, let's cut back a bit on the "Never Trust a Studio Over 30" paranoia except for those crimes which can be proven by evidence. There's a lot of wishful thinking where fans "bullying" studios are concerned (oh brother, did somebody actually use the word "Petition"? Haven't heard THAT one since the 90's! ). But much of the toon-fan paranoia of studios dates back to our demonizing of Eisner-era Disney in the late 90's, back when they were doing a fair amount of things worth demonizing for. By the time we had anime fans trying to fight back against Disney wanting to drop the Studio Ghibli's, we'd...just sort of gotten used to it. Whatever grievances I have against Warner (and their "Make the Collectors go away!" fears of more than 2 disks) have been clearly stated, and I hold them no grudge if they turn around and do something magnanimous for their intended audience. But--how can I put this?--remember when Warner was doing that anti-piracy ad with Wizard of Oz clips? One got the distinct impression that we were getting the very clear message of "We are WARNER, the Great and Powerful!...WHO ARE YOU??" And that sometimes, the fans are being given that message, along with the pirates. Eh, six o' one, they're both on the Internet. (Oddly enough, the ad would always cut the clips right before Dorothy saying "You ought to be ashamed of yourself, acting like a big bully!" ) And it's when they circle the wagons that studios create the vicious circle of paranoid fans. The Internet isn't for fan-wank petitions, it's for back and forth chat in a place where niche experts can gather. C'mon, Warner, would it hurt ya to come back for one of those HTF Studio Chats again, like in the good ol' days? Or are you too worried that you'd be deluged in fanboys asking for Censored 11 boxes and why Batman TV isn't on disk yet, and is that the image us unwashed "Collector" folk are starting to create?

 

[Kevin Martinez]

Hey Eric, I think you're going a bit TOO far with your rhetoric. Tone it down a notch and bring it back down to Earth.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Quote: Hey Eric, I think you're going a bit TOO far with your rhetoric. Tone it down a notch and bring it back down to Earth.

Yes, please. Let's stick to the topic at hand and remain respectful.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

In the event that WB sticks to their guns and refuses to readmit the missing shorts, where do the big home media sites go from there? Giving automatic negative scores to the T&J set, or better yet, refusing to review it at all are possible options. An open letter posted on the front page explaining the situation could also help. Something that would be appropriately punitive, but wouldn't give the set any free publicity that might help it sell.