Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing Initiatives Based on Strong Fourth Quarter Unit (1 Viewer)

[Dave>h]

quote"Of course people use their PS3's machines to watch movies. The issue has always been just how many." end quote

Answer: Proportionately speaking, given the amount of PS3's sold and the amount of movies purchased, not that many. However, apparently more than all the stand alone HD DVD owners combined.

For those with PS3, am I correct that it can only pass lossless audio via HDMI? No analog 5.1's?

 

[bigluigi]

I guess my point is....I can say with absolute certainty that 100% of the people that bought the, oh....lets just use the HD-A2 as an example, watch movies on their machines. O.K.??? Will you give me that?

 

[Paul Arnette]

Movies? Yes. HD DVDs? Not necessarily.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

RE: Warner's view of the PS3, I wonder if they don't also like the fact that most (nearly all?) PS3's have built-in WiFi, instead of requiring a hard connect. If they are seriously pushing internet features, I'd think having WiFi built into the player would be a big plus -- that's almost like having Profile 2.1, if you ask me, even though I don't really care about the internet interactivity myself.


Yes, it only passes lossless audio via HDMI -- *and* it apparently only does that *after* conversion to uncompressed PCM instead of passing the digital audio untouched, which may or may not matter to you.

And no 5.1 analog out -- just stereo out if you get the breakout cable.

_Man_

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Based on how what they are saying, I would be very surprised if they are no longer manufacturing them. Toshiba thinks they still have a chance. As to new models the 3 series just came out in October so they should be current until 2008 CEDIA. We will have to wait for then to know about any future models. I don't believe that Toshiba is reducing the price to blow out inventory as part of a strategy to discontinue the format. Toshiba is a big enough company that if they wanted to get out they would just discontinue the format, take a one time write off and move on. They wouldn' start a new expensive marketing campaign to empty the wharehouse before they shutter it.

 

[BrettB]

Jerry : What happened to my stereo ? It's all smashed up .

Kramer : That's right . Now it looks like it was broken during shipping and I

insured it for $400 .

Jerry : But you were supposed to get me a refund .

Kramer : You can't get a refund . Your warranty expired two years ago .

Jerry : So were going to make the Post Office pay for my new stereo ?

Kramer : It's just a write off for them .

Jerry : How is it a write off ?

Kramer : They just write it off .

Jerry : Write it off what ?

Kramer : Jerry all these big companies they write off everything

Jerry : You don't even know what a write off is .

Kramer : Do you ?

Jerry : No . I don't .

Kramer : But they do and they are the ones writing it off .

Jerry : I wish I just had the last twenty seconds of my life back .

 

[Zack Gibbs]

In a recent article, I wish I could remember what it was but I don't atm, Blu-ray player figures were being discussed and they noted the inclusion of 3 million PS3's (this was from a Sony representative I believe). I thought it odd because I think there had been some 6-8 million PS3s sold so far and I wondered if 3 million was an estimate of how many were used primarily, or heavily, for Blu-ray movies? If so I'd say that sounds about right.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

_Man_

 

[Sanjay Gupta]

Actually the 6 - 8 million sales figures for the PS3 are worldwide sales figures while the US figures are approx 3 million plus. Thus the 3 million figure in question is the US sales of the PS3. Anyhow, even if one were to take a very low figure of maybe 20% of PS3s being used for watching HD, it adds upto afigure greater than all standalone HD-DVD players sold so far. No matter how you look at it, it would be stupid of any studio to totally disregard the large number of PS3s already sold. More importantly the PS3 is now selling at a much faster pace than before.

PS: Personally I have a very strong feeling that this drop in prices is no more than a liquidation sale and for Toshiba to buy time to negotiate terms with the BDA to withdraw from the market.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Can you point me to the rumors about PS3 dropping to $300? I'm curious.

But even w/out an actual price cut, one can still get a PS3/40GB for roughly that price right now if one makes use of the current Sony credit card promotion (though the promo is not exclusive to PS3) -- that's how I bought mine a few weeks ago. If a price cut is coming, I imagine they'll wait til after that promo ends (or people will end up buying the PS3 for just ~$200).

Interestingly, the $15 DVD Guys in downtown Manhattan very recently slashed their PS3 prices, and you can get a PS3/40GB for $300 from them. I remember talking to them about it just before I bought mine. A couple of my coworkers are tempted to buy one at that price.

_Man_

 

[Paul Arnette]

Said rumorage:

VG Rumors

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Hmmm... Very interesting indeed. And looks like we will find out for sure next week. I wonder if the $15 DVD Guys got a leg up on this considering the timing of their price cut.

_Man_

 

[Fozziwig]

The change in market share is very dramatic. The charts from NPD illustrate what happened in December (which seems to have been a contributing factor in the WB decision) and then what happened following the Warner announcement:

The first set shows whole of December 2007 (left) and first 2 weeks of January 2008 (right):



The second set shows the dramatic change that occured following the Warner announcement. Wk.1 January 2008 (left) and wk.2 (right):



That's a pretty stunning move by any standards.

Of course the new Toshiba price cuts came into effect on Monday January 14th, so the effect of those cuts won't be seen until we get the next set of NPD numbers.

Although the new Toshiba price cuts are dramatic it's worth remembering that there already were many great deals on HD DVD players through December and in the weeks leading up to the new pricing strategy.

For example, Amazon in December:

A3 + 10 free HD DVDs = $178.52
A30 + 10 free HD DVDs = $246.34
A35 + 10 free HD DVDs = $345.51

Amazon prices on these players today:

A3 = $125.00 (3rd party seller)
A30 = $165.81
A35 = $263.66

I'm assuming the mail-in offer for the 5 movies + 2 free in the box still applies on these players, although Amazon doesn't say that there are any movies with the player.

The best prices on Amazon today for Blu-ray players are:

Samsung BD-P1000 - $259.99 (3rd party)
Samsung BD-P1400 - $329.98
Sony BDP-S300 - $346.65

It's going to be interesting to see how the next few weeks play out with the reduced price Toshiba players in the market.

 

[Patrick.C]

Has anyone heard if the 5 free offer will be extended beyond Jan 31? If not, the 28th - 31st of January will be the prime time to buy a PS3 and take advantage of both the price cut and the 5 free offer. On the other hand, it might be worth the gamble to wait and see if the 5 free offer is renewed, in hopes that the selection will get better.

 

[FrancisP]

This is all based on the premise that PS3 owners want to play movies on their video gaming systems. When you look at the sales figures for blu-ray, it doesn't support that. Also X-Box has been purchased by millions but only around 200,000 hd movie adapters have been purchased. Also the number 1 selling game system does not play hd movies at all.

It's also clear that the gap between hd-dvd and blu-ray has decreased. The sales on HP 5 was 1.2-1 for bluray and hd-dvd. Bladerunner sales on hd-dvd and blu-ray was essentially even. I would also point out hd-dvd sold around 120,000 players in a pre-Black Friday sale so December sales were probably slower. Even then, I know nothing about this group and how they derive their numbers. Generally someone creates a model and uses some data. If the model is flawed then the numbers are flawed.

While the Warner annoucement hurt hd-dvd sales it was not the biggest contributor. Rumours abounded, no doubt started by blu-ray, that Universal and Paramount were dropping hd-dvd entirely. That was what probably killed
sales.

Bottom line is that Warner did not switch to blu-ray because of sales. It was Sony's checkbook. Apparently Warner and Fox was very close to switching to hd-dvd before Sony pulled out their checkbook. If blu-ray sales were so good, they wouldn't have had to do this.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

It was not a factor in the WB decision. Sony's offer expired on the 4th which is when WB made their decision and the monthly December data was not available.

 

[Paul Arnette]

I'm sure, as usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. However, it should be a relatively simple matter to determine how big an impact the rumors of Paramount and Universal dropping HD DVD affected sales by looking at the next few weeks sales figures. That said, I'm sure the next rationale will be Paramount and Universal didn't sell any new HD DVD titles during those weeks, right?

 

[Fozziwig]

Warner backs Blu-ray exclusively - 1/4/2008 - Video Business

Strange. According to you he can't have seen the NPD data. But he says he had seen the NPD data. Furthermore he raises the matter of sales of set-top players unprompted indicating he feels it is significant. I agree it can be debated whether the player sales numbers informed the Warner decision, not that it really matters anymore.

I hope you won't be offended if I choose to believe Ron Sanders.

 

[Robert Crawford]

You can believe whomever you like as those of us that know the details aren't in the mood to debate what happen any further.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Warner said the "fourth Quarter". That doesn't necessarily mean they had the last 2 weeks of December sales data in full.

Adam's comments are not disproven by that article.