The Rocket RS 750 Signature Speakers Are Here!!!!... (1 Viewer)

[Jimmy Harmon]

I know I really should let this slide, but . . . the major problem with analogizing other things that are bad for you with second-hand smoke is that with everything else it's a decision you are making for yourself. With second-hand smoke it's a decision you are making for yourself and everyone around you. The only real choice non-smokers have is to stay home or outdoors.

Math is really not going to prove anything because it can't tell us what the toxic or carcinogenic exposure level is over a specific number of years. I'm no expert, but I don't think that anyone can tell us that for sure at this point. I believe there is disagreement in medical and scientific circles over how bad second-hand smoke is and at what levels and over how many years it is likely to be toxic or carcinogenic, but I do believe there is a general consensus that it's not a good thing. It will also vary from person to person. Stats will only tell us so much. For instance, I have asthma so it may affect me differently than it might someone else. If I get lung cancer from second-hand smoke, I'm not really going to care how many other people it had no effect on.

That being said, I would prefer that the free market system would be the solution as opposed to government regulation (i.e., smoking bars and non-smoking bars would co-exist to appeal to different customer bases). Choice is a good thing so I don't think a total ban is the answer.

 

[Craig Chase]

Jimmy, I agree with your final paragraph, but not your first. You say an anology was not valid, then said it does not matter how many other people die from 2nd hand smoke if YOU get cancer from second hand smoke. Well... I am sure none of the pedestrians wanted to die, either. Shall we ban cars, then?

Of course, you then go on to agree with the "free market" deciding... which is a good thing.

As far as this 2nd hand smoke debate... Every site I have looked at lists direct smoking as being the highest, by far, cause of lung cancer, with 117,000 deaths per year attributed to smoking. ALL non-smokers were listed as getting cancer from second hand smoke... or 3000 per year. This was from the CDC... basically, if no direct smoking cause is evident, it is second hand smoke (aka junk science). Common sense ALSO would point to the concept that there would be a LOT more problems from 2nd hand smoke if it was as bad as some suggest... but the anti-smoking crowd has made it SO PC to bash smokers that common sense is history.

Anyway... Frank ?

 

[Jimmy Harmon]

Hell no we shouldn't ban cars. We should ban pedestrians.

I would add that although I would prefer the free market system create a choice, unfortunately it hasn't done so, at least where I live. The libertarian side of me is at conflict with the non-smoker side. I think I could agree with some government regulation to provide for smoking bars and non-smoking bars, but how to fairly achieve that is a big problem. Maybe make it more costly to license a smoking establishment, give licensing and/or tax discounts to non-smoking establishments, or create a lottery for smoking bar licenses. Unfortunately, the first two might not accomplish the goal and with the third you risk "lottering" someone out of business. Basically, I'm still undecided.

I do know that I hate the smell that me and my clothes have after leaving somewhere smoking is allowed. It really sucks for leather coats and other things that have to be dry cleaned. Can't be much better for your lungs.

Anyway, lot's of good points made on both sides. Now let's let the reader decide . . . oh wait, we are the reader. :b

As you said, how are those Sig 750's, Frank?

 

[Jimi C]

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[frank manrique]

quote:

Wow; this fine thread took a nose dive rather quickly!
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Not really, my friend. Is actually good to "vent" our personal views, even in places like this Forum from time to time, about important issues such as what Craig is talking about, re: freedom of choice and the dangers of tyranical laws impossed on us by those who definitely seem to have have ulterior motives doing so (i.e., using the smoking issue as an excuse for their hidden agendas).
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quote:

Back On Topic: How's that review coming, Frank? And I do hope your recovery is progressing nicely.
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The "review" is coming along just fine...albeit at a slow pace. :b

Am recovering quite well, which is great, yet I'll have to go back to work fairly soon...when the doctors release me back to do so, but I think I'll use some of my yearly vacation time off (hey, I've earned it! ) to prolong having so much fun a bit longer.

Thank you for the well wishes; I greatly appreciate them!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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MichaelDDD - As I said earlier, Frank is free to tell me to knock it off anytime.
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Craig, see my post above!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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Well....we agree on that one. Women who smoke are
unattractive to me. Then again, they are probably unattracted to me too....so its a draw.
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Curtis,

That's some really funny s... :b er, dog poop!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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As you said, how are those Sig 750's, Frank?
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The 750s are doing fine...just fine! Report coming soon...to a HT near you...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Craig Chase]

Frank - I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you doing this review. Now I GET to sit back and harass someone else's review...

Seriously, with your experience with the film industry and a LOT of high end products, I cannot wait until you post results... your review will be done before I even GET a pair of 750's here... and knowing you, it will be a GREAT read.

 

[Kevin_Breeze]

Craig, you know I like you and enjoy reading your posts, and I also sympathize with your position as a club owner, but I have to totally agree with Curtis and Jimi on this one. Its actually a sensitive issue for me.

When I was reading Craigs, math and reasoning about how it basically doesn't affect you at all in the club, I had to keep rereading to see if he was joking. Sorry but the formula is leaving out many many things. I don't have to do the math I know for real life experience how smoky most clubs and bars get and believe me it really does affect you a lot.

Me personally, I get instantly conjested and feel like I can barely breath..sometimes I start sneezing and the whole nine. Before the ban I hated nothing more than sitting at a bar and having someone's smoke go right in my face (this is one thing your math arguments do not account for... The smoke is not perfectly distributed. ) Than going home and having my clothes reekof smoke. It didn't end there, I could feel it in my nose & throat for at least another day - during that time my voice even changed tone (no exagerration).

I'll never understand the tunnel vision views of some smokers & its advocates. If you want to smoke, fine thats your choice but why should you have the right to blow it in my face or in the air I am trying to breathe?? Why should I be the one to have to go outside to get fresh air instead of the smoker going outside to pollute that air, where it can truly be distributed to not really affect people...I say if you want to do it, do it in private or away from anyone who doesn't like it in their face. Designated smoke rooms and the like are fine, but in no way do I think smokers should have free reign, which in reality rapes non smokers of their right to breathe the free air. How anyone can possibly argue the opposite is beyond me. IMO, the whole driving force behind the argument is not driven by common sense or whats right or wrong, its simply driven by $$

Lets face it, most club/bar owners are against it simply b/c it hurts business b/c of the simple fact that many if not most people who go to a bar do smoke and these people NEED to smoke, so they almost can't even go to the bar at that point. But don't forget smoking is an epidemic. The people who were strong enough & lucky enough to escape its addictive jaws should not be punished by the people who didn't. At the same time the people who don't want it arent punishing the people who do smoke, we are just saying not in my face please.

I think the car analogy is apples and oranges. I think a better car analogy is should it be me and my friends right to take the catalytic converters off of our cars pull it into the bar and leave them running b/c we personally enjoy the smell and sound of it while we drink our beer??

For me, thats about the equivalent, and again I find it ridiculous that people think it should be their right to blow smoke in my face if I want to go out to a bar or restaurant. Why should we be the ones who are forced to either suffer the discomforts and health risks or be forced to stay home or go outside??

 

[Craig Chase]

Kevin, My whole point is that the GOVERNMENT should not be the decider here. YOU vote with your feet, and go to a bar where you ARE comfortable.

Personally I HATE the smell of cigarettes, and HAVE left plenty of too smoky bars.

I just won't tell the government to tell the bar OWNER what he HAS to do with his business.

The math is correct, by the way.

And Kevin, If YOU bought a bar, and wanted it to be ENTIRELY non-smoking, I would consider that YOUR decision.

Freedom comes with a price, guys.

 

[Kevin_Breeze]

Yeah but at the same time this isn't the Wild West either. We all have to obide by the government & state regulations. Just like my car example, we all have to have catalytic converters on our cars and pass smog tests.

In terms of club and bar owners, its just like anything else...I mean the governments force you to obtain a liquor License right? You can't sell to minors, you have to adhere to fire codes, you can't allow people to have sex on the tables... Just b/c you own a business doesn't neccesarily mean you should have the right to allow anything to go on in it. Obviously you have more freedoms within your own home, but this is a business open to the public of legal age.

I know it sucks for you b/c it hurts business and as I stated, I sympathize with that, but I do feel its the right thing to do. Its very raw basic common sense when you really sit down and think about it and take money out of the picture.

As far as the math being correct, if I am sitting at a bar and the guy next to me is smoking and the cigarette is sitting there burning in the ash tray (the cigarette is not always in the persons mouth with him inhaling it nonstop) and the smoke from it is drifting directly in my face (very common), you still think your math is sound???

 

[Craig Chase]

Kevin, yes, the math is sound.

And based on what you just said, cigarettes should be banned. Government licenses people to sell them, collects taxes on them, then tells private business owners they cannot let law abiding people in. That is anti freedom.

Government does not tax fire, sex, and minors are just that, minors.

Kevin, If you like this law, fine. Just understand that at some point, the same people will take awsy something YOU enjoy, too.

 

[frank manrique]

quote:
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Seriously, with your experience with the film industry and a LOT of high end products, I cannot wait until you post results... your review will be done before I even GET a pair of 750's here... and knowing you, it will be a GREAT read.
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Craig,

I may have certain experience with film technologies...but least I might have given the wrong impression have to clearly state that I never worked in that industry (if I did I would have already met one of my heroes, the Dean of American film restoration: Robert Harris! although I did meet film luminaries such as Marlon Brando--'da man! --Quentin Torentino and, just recently, George Chakiris of West Side Story fame, at a very old cinema house located in Hemet, California, which is partly owned by a good friend of mine, as well as been at the home of the late Mr. Feldman, the producer of The Wild Bunch movie).

However, I would be awfully tactless and rude if I were not to acknowledge the praises you have seen fit to bestow upon me, and for that I indeed thank you, Sir!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Kevin_Breeze]

See thats just it. They ARE allowed to enjoy it, but not at the expense of others in public places.

You are allowed to own alot of things (and everything is taxed) that arent allowed in certain settings. Should we be able to bring AK47's on airlines?

Just b/c the government allows us to sell and purchase it doesn't mean we should be able to take it anywhere and do whatever we want with it.

 

[Craig Chase]

Kevin, I have sat next to many a smoker. You can see the wisp of smoke, and easily avoid it.

A PRIVATELY owned bar is not a PUBLIC place. Going into one is not mandatory. It is a CHOICE.

The free market will decide. All you need is to do is go into another bar, one without smoke. Or go into one with a separate lounge. Or with smoke "eaters".

What you are buying into is losing a freedom that YOU want gone.

Another areas that is being eye-balled:

Adult Beverages... 30 years ago, they banned tobacco from TV... and said they were not after smokers... they lied. Today there are efforts to ban alcohol ads... someday, when they ban public bars....

Remember, I am NOT a cigarette smoker, I just love freedom... even yours... (ok, you are cool, ESPECIALLY yours) ...

and the AK47 was an overreach. stop it...

 

[Kevin_Breeze]

For the sake of not going back and forth all night long, I will just agree to disagree.

Peace my friend

 

[Craig Chase]

Forget peace... let's fire up a cigar...

And if YOU ever open a bar and want to only let in blonde women, I will be there fighting for you right to run YOUR business the way YOU see fit...

and to make sure only blondes get in, of course...

 

[CurtisSC]

I wouldn't mind getting a wisp of a blonde, or a blonde in my face though....

And at this point in my life, I don't think a blonde would be unhealthful.

 

[Craig Chase]

Curtis... A blonde will kill you LONG before a smoke will.