The Outlaw 950 - Confessions of a Beta Tester (1 Viewer)

[John Morris]

Curious what the beta testers are allowed to say, at this point by the Outlaws in that if there are still restrictions

Hi Will! See one of my previous posts(post 31) for the answer on this. I was taken by suprise by our release from the Outlaw NDA and so did not have my review completed at this time. Although I plan on posting my entire evaluation of the beta2 950 (almost go to gold final)unit tomorrow, what do you want to know about the unit tonight? What specific questions do you have about the 950?

 

[John Morris]

Does anybody have a link to the features that will be on the Outlaw 950?

Hi Michael! Here is a link to the latest press release and other info on the 950 - 950 CES Press ReleaseHope this is of some help! If you have any other questions, LMK.

 

[Scott-C]

Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

Hi John, you were a great help! I appreciated what you wrote. I've never been a big DSP fan for music or movies either, and always opt for the originally recorded mode too. But if this new Cirrus 7-channel DSP mode improved upon a basic DD5.1 or DTS5.1 soundtrack by increasing the soundstage and panning capabilities, I'd be up for it. So, you're right - it will be very interesting to hear the comments of the beta tester who (hopefully) compared this unit to the MC-12. On the surface, it does seem like a funny comparison though, doesn't it (from a price perspective)? If the two units are even remotely comparable, from a sound quality perspective, it's a victory for Outlaw and (and to the factory-direct business model).

It's very interesting (and noteworthy) that you appreciate some of the DSP modes on the 950 enough to make them your defaults. That alone says a lot!

Ah well, now my decisions are even harder! (note to self: buy more headache pills tomorrow)

Thanks again for your comments!

 

[Trevor_J]

Rob, John

thanks for sharing your impressions and taking the time to post your reviews. I am currently using a very dated Yamaha 2092 as a pre/pro that I have been wanting very badly to replace so I could at least accomodate DTS encoded movies. I have been watching the 950 saga for a while now and given all the positive things you guys have to say about the 950 I am very happy that I waited.

I just have a quick question. Can you access the surround modes via a direct button on the remote or are the modes selected via a toggle?

 

[Evan S]

This unit could possibly be the Cabbage Patch Doll version of the 2002 audio pre-pro. Hell, I could get mine in the first batch and probably ebay the sucker for $1500 based on all the hype and the initial shortage of supply compared with demand.
Scott, I'm with you. I had just convinced myself that the Anthem AVM-20 was the one for me, but I had to save for it. Maybe now I'll get the Outlaw just for kicks and never turn back!?!?!? Man, what could I do with that extra $1700? New bedroom bookshelfs? Hell, I could put together a passable (and completely built from scratch) 2 channel bedroom SYSTEM with the savings.
I was secretly hoping the Outlaw would get these kind of favorable comments because I like to save a buck just like the next guy. I almost feel like a kid going to school during the last week of classes. I was getting used to the wait, now these last three weeks or so are going to take forever:frowning:

 

[John Morris]

And Merc, I pretty much confirmed that you were an "insider" when you said that you had a reliable source that said Rotel was having problems with the noise floor on their new pre. Its a relief that the insiders turned out to be beta testers instead of employees.

LarryB: I don't think I can ever truly be an industry insider... I am just too much of a rebel and occasionally too damn blunt with my opinions. I have bitten the hand that tried to feed me much too often. That is why I was suprised(yet very happily so)to find that Outlaw picked me to test their 950. I am very picky and can occasionally be a pain in the ass, yet Outlaw said that that was exactly what they wanted in their beta testers. They said that they wanted us to kick the tires, and turn the dang car upside down to find the existing and potential problems with the 950. Maybe, if the delays are any sign, we were too tough... NAH!!! As for my sources... over the years I have tested and demoed a myriad of gear from almost every manufacturer. Okay, okay, I never got my hands on any Levinson, Wilson/Watt, Meridian, or Krell gear, but I can dream. In the meantime, I've made some friends over the years and occasionally can call them for advice and info on future products. Now-a-days, no company operates in a vacuum and almost everyone talks to each other so it is not too hard to find out what AT is doing by talking to Outlaw, or vice versa. (j/k!)

 

[John Morris]

Can you access the surround modes via a direct button on the remote or are the modes selected via a toggle?

Trevor: Here is an image of the part of the temporary remote which is being currently used with the 950. Link Removed. As you can see, DD, DTS, Night Modes, Surr 7.1(non-DD-EX) and Direct mode are all selectable directly using individual remote buttons. When there are a few selections within each category, they are selectable by scrolling through the choices. However, and this is really cool, if you have selected a source input and are playing a disc(like DVD or CD), the selections will only include those which are compatable with the selected source and media. This makes scrolling almost non-existant and very easy to choose an available mode.

 

[Will]

I am just too much of a rebel and occasionally too damn blunt with my opinions. I have bitten the hand that tried to feed me much too often. That is why I was suprised(yet very happily so)to find that Outlaw picked me to test their 950. I am very picky and can occasionally be a pain in the ass, yet Outlaw said that that was exactly what they wanted in their beta testers. They said that they wanted us to kick the tires, and turn the dang car upside down to find the existing and potential problems with the 950

Maybe I'm a bit of a rebel too.
Anyway, here are my questions about the 950:
How does the FM tuner section compare to stand alone tuners? I'm one of those rare (?) people who likes to listen to FM sometimes. Also, does the 7.1 moniker on the Model 950 means there is a decoding mode on the Model 950 that outputs 7 discrete channels? (I had read before somewhere that it only decodes into 6 discrete channels.)

 

[John Cain]

Hi RAF and John M.
Many thanks for your posts and info, they were exciting to read, and are much appreciated.
I have two questions for you folks.
I'm really curious how the 950 performs with DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 DVDs, being playing through 7.1 speaker set-ups. IOW how does the 950 deal with two extra rear speakers on non 6.1/7.1 DVD's?? (I hope I made my question clear.)
I'm not talking about DPL2, but rather some mode to provide the rear speakers with some sort of signal, on 5.1 source material, and how well that works.
Question 2:
I have two separate amps I'd like to have the 950 switch on. I know the 950 has one remote switch on jack, but it also has another one for a remote zone. Can I use both of these to power up two separate amps, both sitting side by side?? Are these jacks operated by the remote, or do they automatically power on, on power up??
Many thanks guys, I'm now hoping to have the 950 by St. Patrick's Day!!
-- John

 

[John Morris]

Can anyone comment on how the FM tuner compares to stand alone tuners? Also, is the 7.1 mode on the Model 950 basically 6.1 with dual mono in the 2 rear channels, as was suggested in earlier posts in previous threads, or are there ever 7 discrete channels going out?

Will: FYI, although I thought that Robert may have already mentioned this... problems with the tuner were identified during testing which required alteration of the tuner boards which are not in either Robert's nor my unit. As a previous owner of two MD-101As and a Parasound TDQ-1600, I know what I like in a good tuner, and although I highly doubt that the 950s tuner will sound like an MD-101A, I am hoping it will perform like the Parasound TDQ-1600. Outlaw has promised me that the tuner problems have been solved according to our requests, and based on my relationship with them, I believe them, but, as of now to my knowledge, this piece to the 950 puzzle is yet to be reviewed by an outside source. However, this piece, the FM tuner, can not be a deal breaker for me, as the value of this pre/pro as a two channel/multi-channel music preamp and as a 5.1/7.1 movie processor is already overwhelmingly convincing to me as the pre/pro to buy. Nonetheless, the FM tuner is important to me and as soon as I can get my tuner board replaced in my beta unit, I will report back on my findings.

As for the discrete rear surround channels, I can verify that they receive discrete audio signals. All you gotta do is run the initial speaker calibration for proof of that as it allows individual volume calibration of the four rear surround channels independently. Hope this was of some help! If you have any others... please LMK.

 

[John Morris]

Many thanks guys, I'm now hoping to have the 950 by St. Patrick's Day!!

You are quite welcome! I only hoped that I could be of more help... maybe, over the next few days I will be...

 

[Will]

As for the discrete rear surround channels, I can verify that they receive discrete audio signals. All you gotta do is run the initial speaker calibration for proof of that as it allows individual volume calibration of the four rear surround channels independently. Hope this was of some help! If you have any others... please LMK.

Are there any surround modes that decode into 7 discrete outputs, like Logic 7 does, on the Model 950?

 

[Serge Breton]

very exciting news indeed. I'm interested in the HONEST reviews between the 950 and the higher priced processors like the B&K 30 prepro. I'm eager for you lucky dogs to divulge the sonic character of the 950, subtlelties and a "revealing sound" is a pretty vague description but i know the reviews are coming and am eagerly anticipating them. Bring it on!
I may wait for this prepro after all but hopefully the beginning of March will be the deadline and those in the first batch receive their processors and a quality pair of interconnects to boot! Three months of waiting for Outlaw will be a small price to pay if the 950 is indeed this good!

 

[Patrick R. Sklenar]

Robert & John M.,
hehehe Now you know how I felt during the 1050 beta test ... and you've only been unmasked for about 12 hours! It only gets better!
Will,
Back during the 1050 beta test, I had signed an NDA as well, but Outlaw felt they were too new and unknown and kept asking me to post my opinions and findings even during the beta program. In my case there were a few issues that I was asked not to mention until the beta test was complete and they knew they had them fixed ... which I did. The 950 beta testers were kept under a much more restictive NDA than I and thus the beta test is complete as they have started posting ... Considering how things worked during & after the 1050 testing, I honestly believe these guys have not been told to hold anything back.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Two nights ago I decided to watch (actually "listen" to) the LD of the Le Miz London Concert - one of my all time favorite musicals/operas/whatever. In particular I wanted to see how the 950 handled the digitally recorded stereo sound. What was supposed to be ~ 10 minutes of listening turned into a 3 hour session. I couldn't put it down. Never have I been able to make out every single word of every single song in this concert (including the chorus productions.) Unbelievable clarity of sound.

Ha ha ha funny thing I found myself doing the same thing in the auditioning of my Sherwood AVP-9080 when I got it last month. I'm amazingly happy with the older 5.1 Sherwood, and would have interest in the 950 if it was a better match for my system. Alas, it would not be a good fit for me.

 

[Scott-C]

Scott, I'm with you. I had just convinced myself that the Anthem AVM-20 was the one for me, but I had to save for it. Maybe now I'll get the Outlaw just for kicks and never turn back!?!?!? Man, what could I do with that extra $1700? New bedroom bookshelfs? Hell, I could put together a passable (and completely built from scratch) 2 channel bedroom SYSTEM with the savings.

LOL - Evan, you and I must be on the same wavelength! As soon as I had read the great initial reviews of the 950, I started thinking about what I could do with all the money I'd be able to save. I even went an extra mental step and imagined the money I'd save if I bought the 950/770 combo...it sure would make it that much easier and quicker to upgrade my speakers! Like you I was looking at the AVM-20, and also the MC-1, and thinking both of these would be good choices for me. Now I'm not so sure...

It sure sounds like the Cirrus 7.1 surround modes do a great job on 5.1 sources and that's important to me.

I know the Outlaw site mentions some sort of theater re-equalization features built into the 950. Are these features selectable/defeatable by the user? Exactly what is available here in terms of options? Did it work well on soundtracks that would normally be harsh in a home theater environment?

 

[John Morris]

I'm eager for you lucky dogs to divulge the sonic character of the 950, subtlelties and a "revealing sound" is a pretty vague description but i know the reviews are coming and am eagerly anticipating them.

Serge: One of the toughest things I've been trying to do is to describe what "nothing" sounds like. Revealing is accurate to the point that whatever you put into the 950, it passes on to your amp. This preamp adds no grain, no hiss, no sonic character that can be called 950-like. It doesn't add an edgy solid state or tube-like quality to the audio. It adds Nothing more, and nothing less. It is like trying to describe what perfectly still, perfectly clean air smells like...

Will: I do not believe that I will get a new tuner in my beta unit but that my next 950 will be a final production model which I will get when they ship.

 

[Gene Lockaby]

(Though this was written last night, it was not posted then due to, believe it or not, a power outage. Had to write this twice. Gotta get that UPS.)

I’m the fifth of five beta testers for the 950, and here I am on Monday night February 11, knocking out the report I thought I’d be making sometime in November. Among other things I can tell you – for those of you who waited, this product was worth the wait.

AFAIK I’m the token Lexicon guy in the beta group, and as such my main function in the group has been to answer the question “How close is the sound to the MC-12”. I can’t report much else tonight since the Beta 5 unit arrived here only Saturday morning.

I can tell you that the answer is - close, very, very close – way too close considering the difference in cost of the two. Outlaw has Outdone themselves on the 950 in many ways, but their greatest achievement is simply the way this thing sounds.

I am an admitted fool for Lexicon's Logic 7 processing, in all of its variants. The MC-12 is truly all you've read about and more. After spending two years with a Lex DC-2, and the past four months with the MC-12, I was expecting to feel the need to be polite and generous in an evaluation of a substantially 'lesser' product. Be assured, this definitely is not the case - certainly with respect to sonics.

Given the short time I’ve had, the following amounts to little more than a ‘first impression’ of the unit. As you know, you really have to live with these things awhile in order to really learn what they can do.

The Beta 5 unit arrived here around 10 AM on Saturday morning after having spent a very cold night in transit. I removed the cover to let it breathe as it warmed up, but also to get a look inside.

This thing is built like their Model 750 amp (a tank). I bought one of their early model 750, to power the output of my DC-2. Impressed with its performance, I was interested in how they would execute their first pre-pro. Further, I needed a pre-pro to drive my old 750 power amp in my dad's new HT.

The 950's extremely solid construction makes you think you’re looking at a commercial/professional grade piece of electronics, not typical consumer grade stuff. The boards are bolted down solid to the heavy chassis. Despite all the function, there is plenty of room in there to breathe.

After a couple of hours of slow warm up to ambient temp, I slid the unit in my open rack just above the MC-12, transferred the coax from my Toshiba SD9200 to the Coax-1 input on the 950, and transferred all the output interconnects to my amps.

Supporting the MC-12 in my system are a Proceed HPA-3 powering the L/C/R, and NAD 218 THX (2) powering the sides and rears in Lex’s 7.1 arrangement. Speakers are all Definitive Technology – BP 2000 L/R, C/L/R 3000 center, C/L/R 2300 sides, and BP 2004 rears. In addition to the subs in all the speakers, are a DefTech PF 15, and a SVS 20-39.

Setup, including switching the interconnects, took all of a half hour. I was surprised to find built in test tones for level matching all channels (I use a Radio Shack analog SPL meter) in addition to speaker distance settings for time alignment calibration. Then it was on to bass management and setting crossovers all around. All of this was available via simple to follow OSD menus. Despite no manual at all and a prototype remote w/stick on labels, we got through setup in no time at all. I was expecting a LITTLE struggle after all. Of course switching over interconnects for all the other components, zone 2 etc., will take considerably more time. I'll get to that later this week.

I spent most of two afternoons listening to a mixture of 2-channel CD's and 5.1 DVD’s, switching the coax and amp interconnects back and forth between the MC-12 and the 950, being careful to level match the two. The big news is that the differences I hear between the pure 2-channel sound of the two are very subtle, not the substantial difference I expected to find.

Sonically the 950 is right there with the MC-12, based on this very short audition time. Sonically, it is definitely not a lesser product. In a few very trite words – “This thing ROCKS!’ And I don’t mean ‘For the money, it rocks,' I mean it ROCKS! For any money. Clarity, detail, soundstage, imaging, extension, dynamics, amazingly low noise floor – it’s all there in abundance.

Understand, I’m not claiming the 950 the equal of the MC-12 in all respects. Far from it. It was, of course, never intended to compete with the function and flexibility built into the MC-12. I am saying though that for pure sonic output – it is right there. It is competitive at a very high level.

Regarding multi-channel processing, I’m looking forward to spending some serious time continuing the side by side comparison of the two, Logic 7 vs. CES. Especially looking forward to checking out the DVD-A performance.

It’s an outstanding first impression, though, and well worth the wait, I’d say.

Regards - Gene

 

[Will]

Were any of the beta testers able to beta test the tuner part of the 950?

Also, are there any surround modes that decode into 7 discrete outputs, like Logic 7 does, on the Model 950?

 

[Brian Corr]

RAF,

Great to hear your comments as I have a similiar set-up (denon 5700, M&K 150's).

This was the confirmation I needed. The 5700 is going up for sale!