The Outlaw 950 - Confessions of a Beta Tester (1 Viewer)

[Joe_H]

Damn now i'm going to have to save up some money again (just bought SVS 16-46CS+s). Oh darn lol.
BTW, what are the odds that Razvan or whatever was one of the beta testers?

 

[RAF]

By the numbers....

Quote:

Joe,
About the same chance as the 950 having a Firewire connector or two.

 

[Ken Shiring]

Well folks, I have been a lurker WRT the Outlaw 950 threads. Generally, they are a breeding ground for discourtesy :frowning: . I'd like to think I'm near the top of the 950 shipping list, so I have a bias towards Outlaw
However, I find Robert's subjective comparison to the Denon 5700 particularly instructive. The 5700 is an exemplary piece of hardware, and it makes a more than fitting comparison to the 950. I would like to comment here about a portion of Robert's review:

But then I realized that the music in the background was in sync with Jacintha's singing. (Print through sounds and music are usually more random than that). It finally dawned on me - what I was listening to was the music from her headphones! She was using musical queues to stay on tune so that when the piano joined in a bit later she would be on key. And the 950 was reproducing this!

That is one of the most striking examples I have ever heard of in a review. Man, if I had read just that passage and nothing else, I would have never have thought twice about waiting for this unit.
The 5700 has an SNR of 105 db ! In order for the 950 to reproduce this music more accurately than the 5700, this probably means that the 950's noise rejection is doing even better than that! My friends, 105 db SNR is a phenominal number - any piece of equipment that can do better may be an instant candidate for the audio hall of fame.
Great review Robert. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Forum.

 

[Will]

what are the odds that Razvan or whatever was one of the beta testers?

Not too likely.
Before we knew they were Outlaw beta testers, weren't the people who we now know as the beta testers, the most critical about him and his anti-Outlaw comments?
The people we now know are beta testers don't seem to have anything negative to say about the products from the Outlaws, or about the company. I'm sure the products and the company are good, but not faultless. What I am starting to wonder is if the Outlaw beta testers are allowed to say negative things about the product or the company....
What are they not allowed to disclose to us, now? Can they tell us everything, or only some things about the beta tests?

 

[BruceD]

John,

Can you answer a few questions on bass mgmt options?

- Can front, center, and surround channels be set at different xover frequencies? Like fronts 60Hz, center 100Hz, surrounds 80Hz?

- Can I save different xover setups for different modes? Like one setup for 2-channel and another for DD?

 

[RAF]

That is one of the most striking examples I have ever heard of in a review. Man, if I had read just that passage and nothing else, I would have never have thought twice about waiting for this unit.

Ken,
Thanks for the comments (and the kind words). I'm just reporting what I heard (or didn't hear). I'm also awaiting the bench testing of the 950. Although it's kind of ironic that there still isn't a spec sheet (although I understand why, because of last minute changes) I still am of the school that trusts my ears more than my eyes (reading specs.) Specifications are great to get you into the neighborhood. Performance gets you in the door.
Yes, I realize the SNR of the 5700 is an amazing 105db. Thus your point is well taken. Good call.

 

[Evan S]

Bruce, without even being a beta tester I can answer one of your questions. Yes, the Center, Mains and Surround speakers can all be set at a different crossover frequency.

As for saving the settings, RAF will have to take that one over.

 

[RAF]

Quote:

Unfortunately, No. (Unless I'm missing something. Remember, this is all done without the benefit of a manual. There might be some "hidden" controls that will be revealed later.) But since I like to run close to THX specs with my speakers I'm fine with 80-80-80 all around. Like I said, there have to be some differences between the 950 and units costing up to ten times as much. But I don't think that many of them fall into the category of how it sounds, for all practical purposes.

 

[RAF]

What I am starting to wonder is if the Outlaw beta testers are allowed to say negative things about the product or the company....

Will
I failed to see a little smiley disclaimer in you recent remarks and, as such, have to assume that you are serious and therefore do not appreciate the implications. For one thing, I certainly do not make it a practice of coming down on people who are constantly critical of any particular company (or else I would have gotten on your case long before this latest post of yours.) In fact, I welcome dissenting opinions as long as they don't start getting personal. Razvan stepped over the line in another area and one of the moderators (who probably doesn't even know who the "Outlaws" are) banned him.
In my estimation you are getting close to the line here by making ridiculous claims you cannot in any way substantiate. Maybe you just like to hear yourself talk, but if you really think there is some "conspiracy" here you really are not a good judge of people. While I can only speak for myself, I am certain that the people involved are honorable and are telling it like they see (or hear) it. If you are too cynical to believe that this is possible that's your problem. The final validation or refutation of what's being said here is to get a 950 and run it through its paces. With a money back guarantee this is almost a no brainer. But I really think that this is not the issue with you. Think about it.
'Nuff said.

 

[John Morris]

The people we now know are beta testers don't seem to have anything negative to say about the products from the Outlaws, or about the company. I'm sure the products and the company are good, but not faultless. What I am starting to wonder is if the Outlaw beta testers are allowed to say negative things about the product or the company....

Will: When I was released from my NDA earlier this evening, I was not advised or told or limited on anything that I could say. If you have a question, please ask and I'll give you my honest, experienced opinion. As for my previous posts on the Outlaw 950 release delays, as much as they irked me, how could I, knowing exactly the reasons for the delay and knowing first hand how good this pre/pro was, not try all I could to stop others from buying a different pre/pro before they listened to a 950? Heck, I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't try to even make Raznan wait for the 950. Finally, you may remember that I bought one of the first 1050 receivers, and then returned the 1050 because I thought it was too noisy to use as a pre-amp. Since then, Outlaw has supposedly fixed the noise issue on the 1050 but regardless, the 950 shares none of the noise problems that I heard with the 1050. As for 950 product faults, the ones that were identified during Alpha and beta testing were fixed, so not much negative remains to be said. Fixing those faults was the primary reason why the release of the 950 is taking so long...

 

[Mifr44]

Let's see now. A better prepro section compared to the Denon 5700. Equal or better surround processing than in the B&K Ref 30, plus superior analog bypass (CD,SACD) sound. This is getting awfully close to the Bryston SP1.7 I am waiting on, due around the end of March.
My head is starting to hurt again ...
Michael

 

[Curtis_Edwards]

RAF,

In an earlier post when asked what you were going to use as an amplifier you replied

Right now the Denon 5700 is serving in that role, but I'm exploring my options. I might look at the 770 or similar or some more monoblocks or something not yet available. I'm not in any rush since the front soundstage is taken care of for now and I believe that my pre/pro will serve me well for a while. Baby steps. Made possible by separates.

What is the 770 that you are referring to? Is this a possible 7 channel amp by Outlaw?

Thanks.

 

[Jason Watson]

Ok John, I was patient and did not press you for an SVS demo but now you gotta come through! And you with all your whinning about only having your Sens.HD600s to listen to. Hell man, I was feeling sorry for you!
Really, I had talked to Burke Strickland before Christmas about hosting a get-together at my place and we never put the wraps on it. Would you be interested in attending and then some of us diehards could make the trip to your place for a demo? C'mon, I know you wanna gloat
Jason

 

[John Morris]

What is the 770 that you are referring to? Is this a possible 7 channel amp by Outlaw?

Hi Curtis: Yes, the 770 is a new amp which is expected to ship concurrently with the 950. It has been announced as being 200w X 7 into 8 ohms... a real monster! I can't remember for sure, but I think the price was announced as around $1900. Check out the Outlaw site for more info.

 

[Vince Chan]

Robert,

On your review you said that "CD's, from SACD's, from DVD's, from LD's, etc. took on new life when processed through the 950"

When you were testing the CD sound performance, were you using the internal DAC's of the 950 or the DAC's of the CD player? If so, have you compared how the internal 950 DAC's sound compared to a high-end CD player?

John,

What are your opinions about the internal DAC's of the 950?

-Vince

 

[Scott-C]

My head is starting to hurt again ...

Yep, I almost had to go for the Excedrin Migraine a few minutes ago as I read and re-read this thread, key portions of the Outlaw site, and RAF's review of the 950. But it's great because it's all such good news!
My question for RAF, John, or anyone else who has a beta unit concerns your thoughts of the new Cirrus 7.1 DSP modes that were developed specifically for the 750. Obviously they seem to work really well for DVD soundtracks but can anyone elaborate on their qualities when used with DVDs? Not that I would expect them to equal Logic7, given the price of Lexicon processors, but how good is this mode in terms of its ability to manage accurate and enveloping pans across/around all of the channels?
In all the talk of the 950, I haven't really heard much about the 770 7-channel amp that will be the "mate" for the 950. Has anyone beta-tested one of these monsters? I'd love to know how the 950/770 combination sounds.
RAF/John, thanks for your comments thus far. I can't imagine how many people you've probably put at ease tonight with your words!

 

[John Morris]

Ok John, I was patient and did not press you for an SVS demo but now you gotta come through! And you with all your whinning about only having your Sens.HD600s to listen to. Hell man, I was feeling sorry for you!

Hehehehehe! Actually, I did go about a full month and a half without a pre-pro. BooHoo, all through the Christmas Holidays we used my daughters BoomBox for music. Ever listen to Andy Williams and Nat King Cole through a boombox? It kinda defeats the purpose... and, why else would I try hooking up my amp through the Sony 555es's headphone output? I was desperate! We took turns at my Christmas Party passing around the HD600s and watching DVDs using progressive video but with TV outputted stereo sound. UGH!
As for the local meet, as soon as I get my 950 final unit, with all the final software fixes and tuner, it's a deal. In the meantime, I'll also record some choice HDTV playback demos for the meet...

 

[Mifr44]

"RAF/John, thanks for your comments thus far. I can't imagine how many people you've probably put at ease tonight with your words!"

Well, for every one put at ease tonight, I am sure that are an equal number starting to second-guess their current or future prepro purchases. It would seem silly to have owned the Marantz AV-9000, then the Lexicon MC-1, and currently in the wait for the Bryston SP1.7, to now for the first time to consider the Outlaw 950. That's the situation I am currently in.

Does anybody have a link to the features that will be on the Outlaw 950?

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Will]

The final validation or refutation of what's being said here is to get a 950 and run it through its paces. With a money back guarantee this is almost a no brainer. But I really think that this is not the issue with you. Think about it.

I'm on the waiting list, looking forward to getting a call to give them my credit card info. Would like to hear both the good and the bad about the product, beforehand, from people with experience with it, such as the beta testers. However I was curious what the beta testers are allowed to say, at this point by the Outlaws, since there were restrictions on beta testers before and I wondered if maybe, perhaps, there were some restrictions still, but I don't know if that's the case or not. I hope this is a fair question to ask on this forum. If not, please let me know and I won't ask it anymore. I definitely am not trying to cross over the line and if I have, it was unintentional on my part and I apologize.

 

[John Morris]

My question for RAF, John, or anyone else who has a beta unit concerns your thoughts of the new Cirrus 7.1 DSP modes that were developed specifically for the 750. Obviously they seem to work really well for DVD soundtracks but can anyone elaborate on their qualities when used with DVDs? Not that I would expect them to equal Logic7, given the price of Lexicon processors, but how good is this mode in terms of its ability to manage accurate and enveloping pans across/around all of the channels?

Hi Scott! this is a tough question for me since I am at heart a DSP skeptic. I usually do not like using any DSPs for music, and almost always watch DVDs using the originally recorded audio mode. That said, I was suprised by how much I liked using the DPL2-CES(Cirrus Expanded Surround)for the playback of DPL and DD 2.0 encoded movie and TV soundtracks. I actually set up my unit so that it would default to the DPL2-CES audio mode when I selected my HDTV Tuner/STB. That way, it was ready for the Fox's and NBC shows that did not have a native DD 5.1 audio track and still allowed me to easily select the DD 5.1 mode for those that did. As for its' comparison to Logic 7, I just don't have enough experiece with it to make a fair comparison. I believe that one of the beta testers has done a comparison of the 950 with his MB-12, so when he posts, he may in fact let us all know how the 950's Cirrus Surround stacks up... Sorry I couldn't be of more help!