Serious problem with Onkyo HELP!! (1 Viewer)

[Jim De]

I'm new to HT and just bought an Onkyo S655 two weeks ago. The S655 is the same as the S650 package but has the Onkyo DV-C500 5 disk DVD changer. When I first saw this thread I was horrified and ran home to test out my LFI channel. I first put in a music DVD that had the DTS format along with several others. When I first changed my sub woofer mode to mode 3 I did not get any sound from my sub.

I got out the book and read all about it. Then I realized that my DVD player needed to be setup to output DTS. This was different than playing the disk and choosing DTS on the DVD disk menu. On the DV-CP500 you have to press stop and then access the DVD player setup menu. I selected DTS in that menu and then hit play on the disk and set the disk audio for DTS. The receivers DTS light illuminated and I got good sounding bass on my sub from the LFI track. I then tested the LFI track on a different disk using Dolby Digital. That worked fine also. When I set my DVD player to Dolby 5.1 and tried to play a disk that was not Dolby Digital or DTS on Sub mode 3 I got the choppy sound that others have described.

The manual states that the LFI channel is only for Dolby Digital and DTS. Also if a Dolby Digital or DTS track has been overdubbed or modified the auto sensing function of the receiver might switch to PCM mode and not output the LFI channel correctly.

When I calibrated I used the Video Essentials disk and was in sub mode 1. I have not tried calibration in sub mode 3. Does calibration need to be done in mode 3? This is my first post. Sorry about the length. So far I'm happy with my system. The wife loves it too.

 

[FrankWilli]

I'm a newbie here also, but I think Jim De has hit on something: my HTRS500 is hooked up to an Onkyo DV-SP500, and using Attack of the Clones as a test DVD I hear the same bass in sub mode 1 and in sub mode 3. I do remember specifically changing the DVD setup settings to Dolby Digital/DTS, as the factory default on the DVD player was Dolby Digital only.

Maybe the guys out there experiencing this problem can confirm your DVD player is putting out DTS signals as that may be the problems for some of you......but then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Jim De]

When I posted first, I did not realize that everybody is talking about the TX-SR500 receiver. Mine is a HT-R500. They physically look the same from the picture on the onkyousa web page. Are they the same or different? Maybe there is a problem with the TX-SR500 and not the HT-R500?

Everywhere I wrote LFI I meant LFE.

My hookup uses the digital coaxial connection from the DVD to the receiver. I need to find Attack of the Clones and see what the results are from that. Also I will see if I can calibrate in mode 3 with Video Essentials and let ya'll know. Some sound tracks seem much better than others for bass. I just watch Signs which is Dolby Digital and I had the sub mode in Mode 3. The bass was there but the movie just didn't have sound to knock the dust off of the walls.

 

[Mike Trueblood]

When I was testing my DVD player was set to Bitstream, there are no other output settings on my DVD player. My SR500 was detecting a DTS input or DD5.1 depending on my DVD, and still no output from the sub in mode 3.

I pluged a Harmon Kardon receiver into the same exact setup and it worked perfectly.

 

[DanaA]

As someone who was a long time lover of Onkyo products, it these stories are all true, I really have to wonder about what's going on over there. My personal opinion is that receivers should have been recalled with drop-out problems and the clicking problem. Look at how responsive Outlaw was with the hissing problem. Now, no LFE on a home theater receiver??? Do they realize how many future customers they might lose, including long time faithful users of their products? Right now, I'd be hard pressed to buy anything from them.

 

[Chris Sherman]

I called Onkyo this morning and got an RA# within 2-3 minutes. I bought my sr500 online it shipped from Torrance, CA , but luckily Returns are to Upper Saddle River, NJ only cost me 9 bucks UPS ground. I'm getting a credit for mine, no way can I live with this glitch. I went to my local Brick and Mortar store here and bought a Harmon Kardon AVR 225 for $400.00 from the same salesman who sold me my last two previous receivers, both Onkyo's, which have performed flawlessly for years. He knew all about the glitch and has taken several units back. No way Onkyo isn't aware of it. He is also a former Onkyo fan but now owns Harmon Kardon , we both feel the new Onkyo receivers aren't built like the old ones. Much lighter weight due to smaller capacitors , thinner cheaper heatsinks, etc. Probably explains why their power output 5 channels driven is so wimpy lately. I don't think I'd ever purchase a receiver online again even though I thought I'd done my homework I still got burned. On a happier note the HK is awesome actually sounds better than my Onkyo TXDS-676 at roughly half the list price. Costco online is selling the AVR 325's for $499.00 they are $799.00 anywhere else I've looked and you can return them to your nearest store if your unhappy for any reason. Personally I cannot see keeping a defective product although I'm sure Onkyo will be happy if you do. My brother bought a Denon 2801 online, unauthorized dealer, and it had the static popping glitch through the surrounds when playing in pro logic mode. The dealer offered to take it back but he decided it was too much bother so he lives with it, then again he's lazy. Good luck to all those who've gotten bum units.

 

[Kevin Goodwin]

Here's the lame e-mail response I received from Onkyo:

*************************************************

Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support.

An exchange would have to be granted thru your selling dealer if you have a defective unit. We have an FAQ that pertains to this issue.

Question:

I am not getting any bass out of my subwoofer when playing back a Dolby Digital from my favorite DVD when played back through my TX-SR500 receiver.

Answer:

First check to make sure that you have selected Dolby Digital 5.1 in the DVD Audio Setup Menu choices on your DVD player. Please note that when you select this audio option you must have your DVD player connected to your receiver using the coaxial or optical output. Next, you need to set the receiver up to correspond to the particular cable type that you are using. Please refer to "Setting the Digital Inputs" section that appears on page 23 of the user's manual. Finally, if you are playing back a true 5.1 channel signal that has a LFE (Low Frequency Effects)channel you should have set the Subwoofer Mode button on the front of the TX-SR500 to Mode 3. This will ensure that the LFE channel of the soundtrack is played back correctly. If you are in subwoofer modes 1 or 2 you will still get a subwoofer output, however in these cases it will be a summed output from multiple channels and not a true LFE output. Please refer to "Setting the Subwoofer Mode" on page 20 for further details on each subwoofer mode.

Note that this example also applies to the HT-R500 receiver that is found in the HT-S650, HT-S653 and HT-S655 Home Theater Packages.

*************************************************

They're blaming the problems on the customer. They're not going to admit there's a problem with the receiver.

 

[Jim De]

In a search to answer my own question, "Is it necessary to calibrate the subwoofer in mode 3(LFE)?" I found the answer in the FAQ's on the Ovation Software web site(makers of Avia Audio Test DVD's).
Here is the link:
http://www.ovationsw.com/avia_faq.html#audio
Here is an excerpt from what I found:
"When I use Avia's subwoofer audio tests, why I don't get any output from my subwoofer?
One must realize that LFE and low bass content are NOT one and the same thing. The subwoofer portion of the tests was intentionally placed in the main channels rather than only in the LFE. This allows more complete evaluation of how the sub integrates into overall bass reproduction.
In detail:
...
If the subwoofer test tone is recorded on the LFE, the test would not test handling of low bass content in the main channels. The test would produce subwoofer output no matter what size one chose for the speakers, but the test would be useless for the more important low bass content of the main channels. Hence, the AVIA subwoofer tests are recorded on the main channels rather than just the discrete LFE.
Getting no subwoofer output from AVIA is not a bug in the audio section. Many people don't fully comprehend the important distinction between getting overall bass management optimized vs calibrating only the LFE so they choose suboptimal speaker size settings.
...
What about the LFE level? That is preset at the factory relative to the other channels so setting the other channels for correct bass reproduction should also set the LFE correctly. In truth, there aren't a lot of machines that let you fine tune LFE level independent of subwoofer level anyway."
I suspect that other Audio Calibration methods are the same

 

[Bill**H]

Okay, in all fairness to the Onkyo TX-SR500 when you have it set to speaker Mode 1 you get the Bass from all channels. My crossover is set to 100 Hz, so everything below 100 Hz goes to the Subwoofer including the Point 1. Granted, when it's set to Mode 3 you will not get anything from the from the Subwoofer while playing a DD disk. If you are playing a DTS disk it works, but all you are getting is the Point 1 of 5.1. The output is about 3 or 4 DB down from what you would get if you were in Mode 1. This is understandable because your not getting any Bass from the other speakers. I am not happy about how this works (Mode 3 DD), but I can live with it by using Mode 1. I look at Mode 1 as setting your speakers to small.

My room is 11x33x8. I have the Onkyo speaker set and a Sony SA-WM40 Subwoofer, and it Rocks! I have no trouble reaching 105 DB peaks on the Radio Shack meter 14 feet from the front speakers, (I run the sub about 6 DB hot).

I know my system is "entry level". Do I want more? Why hell yes I want more, but until I can afford it, this works for me!
Guess I should say my receiver is a HT-R500. I think it makes more power than the TX-SR500 because it weighs more and it draws more Amps from the 120 volt line. I compared the manuals for both and the HT-R500 is rated at 100 watts RMS and also has a higher dynamic power output.
My Onkyo is not "Gnawing" at me, though it was when I first read this message.
How many other brands of receivers do you read about on this forum that have problems, quite a few.Yes there is a flaw, but it ain't that bad.

 

[Trent D]

When I was testing my DVD player was set to Bitstream, there are no other output settings on my DVD player. My SR500 was detecting a DTS input or DD5.1 depending on my DVD, and still no output from the sub in mode 3.

Mike,

I am having the same problem. No sub tone in mode 3 on THX audio test. Attack of the Clones opening scene sounds horrible (like a burp) in mode 1 and mode 3. What DVD player are you using. I have a Toshiba 2150 and am also using the Bitstream option through the digital coax. Could it be a problem between Toshiba and Onkyo? I wonder how many of the people reporting this problem are using Toshiba DVD players and the digital coax connection. I may have to audition a new DVD player, which is not ideal since the video is still great on my Mits 55859. Just a thought. Do you have a another DVD player to try? I do intend on notifying Onkyo of the problem as well.

 

[Mark Arrigo]

Trent,

It's not an issue between a Tosh DVD and the Onkyo. I had the exact same problem with a JVC DVD hooked up via optical to an Onkyo HT-R500. I also got the ultra annoying "burp" in the opening of Attack of the Clones (see my earlier posts in this thread. The problem lies in that models bass management. The HT-R500 and TX-SR500 seem to share the problem. They simply do not play LFE channels correctly. Onkyo replaced my receiver with TX-SR600 for $50 more (which was delivered yesterday). The problem is now gone (thank God).

Mark

 

[Trent D]

Mark,

Were you within your 30 day return period? I bought this unit on December 1, 2002. I would most definitely pay $50 for the SR-600. It seems to me this is a warranty issue as this unit is sold as a 5.1 receiver and not a 5.0 receiver.

 

[Mark Arrigo]

Yes, i was within the 30 day return period. Heck, my first call to them was about three days after I got the thing. I bought the original unit as part of a refurbished HTS650 home theater in a box system. They agreed to only replace the receiver since i was not about to ship back a 110 pound complete system at my cost. The SR600 they sent me was also refurbished. Took a few calls to finally get things moving. The first group of tech support people you get on the phone seemed pretty useless and even borderline rude at points. Things finally got moving when I talked with the sales dept.

Hope this helps,
Mark

 

[MattDA]

WOW!! You guys have uncovered a HUGE issue here!!

Just to let you know, I have the HTS650, which includes the HTR500 receiver (I believe the same as SR500) and it is completely unable to reproduce the LFE channel!!

I took all of these tests 1 step further. I put in Ice Age DVD because it has a THX optimizer, and ran the 5-channel surround test when running through the digital coax from DVD player to Onkyo... when it hits the subwoofer channel, no sound whatsoever from the subs... no matter if it is in Mode 1, Mode 2 or Mode 3. These receivers simply fail when trying to reproduce the LFE channel.

Next, I utilized the Analog 6-channel outputs from my DVD player to the Onkyo (this obviously uses the Dolby Digital converter in my DVD player) and ran the same 5-channel surround test and got a nice deep thumping when it hit the subwoofer channel. (I've now stayed up all night long re-wathcing DVD's using the Analog 6-channel to experience what I should have been experiencing all along... We are missing out big time everybody).

Apparently I have been one of those ignorant consumers that just thought Subwoofer Mode 1 was the way to go, but now I am really upset with Onkyo!! I just sent them a nasty-gram via their website... I'll keep you all posted if I get a response. I just don't think they can sell a product and label it DD 5.1 if it is completely incapable of producing the .1 LFE channel...

Let's keep this thread alive and others will become informed about this MAJOR FLAW!! I think there will be strength in numbers here.

Thanks for pointing this out everyone. This is a great forum.

 

[Jacqueline C]

I was thinking about getting the HTS 650 when I came across this thread. I have never had a HT and am not sure I understand the problem that you are complaining about well enough to make an informed decision as to whether this defect (with the mode 3 not working and mode 1 working) is bad enough to make this system not worth getting. Could somebody please explain what this problem would mean to me? Thanks

 

[AaronJB]

Jacqueline,

The problem seems to be with the reciever. One subwoofer mode that takes the bass from other channels and sends it to the subwoofer works, but the mode that's supposed to reproduce the actual subwoofer output (the .1 of 5.1) does not produce anything.

If you are/were looking at this set (HT-650), you may still want to consider the SKSHT-500 speaker set, which are nice speakers and not problematic, and pairing them with another reciever.

 

[DavePL]

I've been looking at the HTS-650 for awhile and ran across this thread as well as one on another forum.

One of the Mods on the other forum is in contact with Onkyo directly and says Onkyo was able to re-produce the problem in their lab. They think they've narrowed the problem down to a certain # of models made during a specific production run.

He's waiting to here from Onkyo on possible serial #s,dates etc. Also whether the problem can be fixed with a software or hardware swap-out. He thinks he may have more info by Tuesday. I'll keep everyone posted.

On a more positive note... Someone in the same forum posted today that he went to his local CC within the last few days and said they were aware of the problem and that the bad units had been sent back and new ones shipped last week and in the store.

He bought it, took it home,tested it and it worked! .LFE and all.

I know. Take it with a grain of salt. But I'm going to my CC and see what they say.

Stay tuned.

 

[brent_bdb]

OK, I've read about the LFE problem with the SR500 reciever of the HT-S650 HT in a box solution and it has me a little worried. I was planning this originally because 1) I don't have room for the 3 speakers behind me...so I only need a 5.1 system 2) I don't REALLY need component switching at this stage.

Now that I've heard of this issue, it makes me wonder if I should just ge the SR600 reciever(which doesn't appear to have the problem). If I do that, then it's a 6.1 solution and I don't have any speakers. Could I get the HT500 speakers (which I've heard good things about for the price) and just hook up the 5.1 to the SR600 since I don't have room for the 6th speaker? Would this solution work well? Any other suggestions if I go with the SR600 (but trying to keep total price less than $800-$1000?). I'd like to purchase from a store like Circuit City so I could return easily if problems

 

[Mark Arrigo]

Brent,
What you are suggesting is exactly what i ended up with after Onkyo exchanged the receiver that came with the HT-S650 in a box for the SR-600. So I have the HT500 speakers hooked up to a SR-600. The SR-600 works the way it should and sounds great. I have mine hooked up as a 6.1 since i bought Onkyo's rear center speaker for $40 off their web site. But the SR600 has the option of turning off the center back speaker (the 6 in 6.1) so it's just like having a 5.1 receiver. If your looking to save a few bucks you can get a refurbished SR-600 off the Onkyo web site for a decent price and last time i checked there was no sales tax (except NJ) or shipping charges.

Hope this helps

Mark

 

[Jacqueline C]

I've been reading up on the sr600 since it was mentioned in this thread and I too am seriously considering the SR600 receiver/SKshts500 speaker combo. THanks to the person who pointed out that you can turn of the back center channel on this model but I just wanted something clarified. If I buy the 600 and the 5 speakers, if the dved I'm playing says it has 5.1 dolby digital as an option do I select that, press a button or something on the reciever to suppress the center back line, and lose something? Or what actually would happen. Also, if the DVD gives a choice between 6.1 and 5.1 would it make any difference if I set it on 6.1 and suppress the center back, or if I set it on 5.1?

I will wait a few days to see if DavePL's source hears anything more before making a decision since the difference in price would be about $240 (probably more due to tax) because the only place that has the speaker set is Circuit City and I'd have to pay tax (I have an out of state source for the HTS650 combo , and the combo itself is priced so that you alomost get the speakers free.) But I'm sure I'd probably be very unhappy with the set if there's a whole line of sound that your not getting.

BTW what DVD would you guys suggest as a good test of whatever system I do get, to demonstrate the LFE? I'd hate to buy the more expensive receiver and wind up with the same problem although so far I haven't heard anybody complain about the 600.

Are there other recievers you'd recommend as a combo with the Onkyo speakers? I really like the way they look and they look alot more sturdy than the tiny satellites I've auditioned. The sound of course is what is important but with all the ambiant noise and horrific set up of the only place near me that has speakers it is hard to really tell what they sound like and I'm going a lot by research.

Lastly, am I write is iterpreting the data about the TX-sr600 this way: it can decode Dolby digital,AND Dolby Digital ES , DTS AND DTS EX right? It is NOT a choice between the 2 Dolby's or the 2 DTS's right? Because while it is nice to have the option to go to the newer ones, the majority of dvd s won't have those tracks for years yet.

Thanks again to the person who started this thread. I probably wouldn't have known there was a problem with the 650 for a long time then I'd have been livid.