LOST season 2 discussion thread...... (2 Viewers)

[AlexSchwarz]

Okay guys, I have two questions .... and since I am in my first-run on DVD right now, please do not spoil anything that comes beyond the episode "The Hunting Party". Thanks!

1. Sawyer calls that beardy guy "Zeke"....is that one of Sawyer's nicknames he gives to people and "Zeke" is a cultural reference I (German) am unaware of? Or is "Zeke" plainly a name and the reason why Sawyer said it will be revealed later on?

2. So there was a Black Smoke-encounter in "The 23rd Psalm"....amazing scene, still wow. However, I think I remember reading that the producers said that the Black Smoke is NOT the monster....or is it? It sure made enough noise, smashing the ground in front of Mr. Eko, but it didn't rip out any trees and it didn't sound quite like the monster from season 1.

Plese help me out here before I continue watching, these two things are really bugging me. And I apologize for not searching the whole thread for answers, but I think it might be obvious why I wouldn't want to do that.

 

[Henry Gale]

1)Ezekiel is, of course, a book, and a character, in the Bible.
I take Sawyer's use of the name as a reference to the bearded man's Appalachian redneck appearance.

 

[Arild]

IIRC, the producers said that it IS the monster... 'course, what exactly it is we still don't know.

 

[Scott-S]

I do not think we know what the smoke is. There are a lot of theories. Everything from Ghosts to nanobots. The only thing I know is that they/it appear to be either controlled, or intelligent.

 

[Holadem]

Really. It sounds exactly like it to me... and what we all thought were the steps of some giant creature seems to actually be a series of explosions as Smokey is released from the ground. At least that's my interpretations...

Psalm 23 is probably my favorite episode so far.

--
H

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

It is true that the name Zeke ultimately refers back to Ezekiel, but I agree that it isn't relevant to Sawyer's use of it as a stereotypical name for a hillbilly type. He could have just as well used Jethro or Jedediah (also good Old Testament names) to make the same point. It is like calling someone who looks and dresses like he could be part of Tony Soprano's crew "Vito" or "Guido". I doubt there is any deeper meaning.

Regards,

Joe

 

[AlexSchwarz]

Okay, thanks for the info. I was a little confused whether "Zeke" may have been the person's actual name, but what you all said makes sense.

Regarding the smoke / monster: Hmm....I was acutally quite sure that I once read that those were two different things, but I was probably mistaken. So it IS the monster....okay.

Thanks!

 

[Ockeghem]

I haven't been able to find a discussion thread for the first season, only threads for seasons 2-6.

We watched episodes no. 3 and no. 4 tonight (Tabula Rasa and Walkabout). A couple of our youngest children (the ten-year old and eight-year old mostly) told us that they wanted also to watch the series with us this time around. They mentioned that they missed so much of the second and third seasons our first time through, that they felt 'lost' [ ] whenever they would sporadically watch an episode with us.


I truly am amazed at the writing and thought that went into this series. Tonight, we were seeing varying camera angles for scenes that had occurred twice (and in some cases three times) already, yet now we were viewing them from the perspective of other crew members. What I find interesting is thinking about whether 1) alternate angles were filmed initially simultaneously (in which case a lot of planning ahead would have had to have taken place); or 2) whether they were refilmed at a somewhat later date. I'm guessing the former occurred, but I really don't know for certain.

 

[TonyD]

I searched -- lost season 1 --

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/188408/lost-season-1-ongoing-thread-merged

it was the third answer.

 

[Ockeghem]

Tony,

Much appreciated. I searched "Lost season one" (I spelled out the number one) and it wasn't on the first or second page. I've added the post to the thread you linked.

 

[Ockeghem]

[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]I realized last night that I had been posting season two episodes in the season one thread. So, I’ve cut-and-pasted those posts from that thread into this one.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]We watched Man of Science, Man of Faith the other night. I recall the first time I saw this episode, and heard the Mama Cass track. I believed that we were beginning the episode with a flashback -- LOL.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]We watched Adrift and Orientation recently. I never tire of seeing the D.I. film. And now I have seen that man in a commercial (I saw him in one during the Super Bowl, then again tonight).[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]We watched Everybody Hates Hugo and ...and Found a few nights ago. It sure didn't take us long to get back to The Other 48 Days and Collision. We saw both of these episodes only a couple of weeks ago. It was really interesting to rediscover that Ana Lucia is dropped into the pit (undercover) before we see The Other 48 Days. I had forgotten that.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]We recently watched Abandoned, and will be moving on to The Other 48 Days (one of my personal favorites) and Collision next. I have to say that I appreciate Maggie Grace's acting abilities. I have noticed quite a range, especially when she's in scenes consisting of heart-wrenching moments like having to deal with Boone's death or when she is having exchanges with her cruel step mother. During the show's first eight or nine episodes, I saw a whiny young woman with more than one axe to grind. But during her moments with Sayid, her expressions are varied and her reactions toward his genuine caring for her are quite impressive. We loved the scene where she doesn't accept the money from Boone, in which we thought she was superb. She pulled at our heartstrings bigtime last night, and this is to her credit as an actress.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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[SIZE= smaller][COLOR= #303030]We watched The Other 48 Days (another of my personal favorites) and Collision last night. Even though I’ve seen these episodes several times, I picked up a couple of tidbits that I missed the first or second time viewing them. The footage showing the reuniting of several relationships was done very well. I liked how Michael was recognized by Vincent the moment he saw him. And the timing is particularly meaningful, given how Vincent was with Shannon virtually all of the time after Walt left on the raft and before her death, and only now is reunited with Michael. (I also liked how Shannon befriended Vincent at just the right time with regard to Walt, and how we were treated to a similar story by Locke, his mother, and the stray dog that came to stay with them for years after a death in the family.) Beyond this, the reuniting of Rose and Bernard, Sun and Jin, and Jack and Ana Lucia were all particularly poignant. Jack was ready to go into the jungle fully armed with revenge on his mind until Mr. Eko uttered two words: Ana Lucia – which stopped Jack in his tracks.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched What Kate Did, The 23rd Psalm, and The Hunting Party last night.

I loved the scene where Sawyer doesn't believe that they have not been rescued, and what he says as he comes outdoors. Here he is with the girl he loves (Kate) and on a gorgeous island amidst beautiful weather. LOL.

Another line I really liked was the one uttered by Sawyer during the famous 'line in the sand' segment: "You and me ain't finished, Zeke" (or something to that effect when he is speaking to the 'bearded' Tom). Knowing what occurs down the road, I appreciated this line even more now than the first time I heard it.

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched Fire and Water and The Long Con last night.

I found the episodes to be interesting and thought-provoking. Baptism was one of the topics that was addressed, and some of the questions that were asked by Claire were quite profound (about entry into heaven based on this act, whether her baby would obtain entrance, and how she could ensure it as well for herself). Some portions of the dialogue spoken by Eko regarding John the Baptist's reason for baptizing Jesus were not even close as far as what is conveyed in the ancient texts; however, Claire wasn't in a position to press him on this point, and this is afterall a fictional context. I appreciated the scene, and the inquiries made by one of my favorite characters in the show. Eko administered baptism to the child as we cut away from the scene.

The first time I saw what Locke did to Charlie (after Charlie thought he had to baptize her baby), I found it to be out of line. But this time around, I think I understand Locke's motivation a bit more clearly. I remember thinking back when I first saw the episode how I believed that Locke was either possessed or otherwise compromised. (N.B.: I loved the scene with 'Aaron' -- and not Moses -- in the basket floating in the water.)

In The Long Con, I was very pleased to see what Sawyer did to both Jack and Locke. Both deserved what was coming to them, and I felt that they needed to be dropped down a peg or two. Usually I really like Jack and Locke, but there pointless bickering often becomes annoying. Sawyer (by collaborating with Charlie) gave them both what they deserved IMO. And I really do like the character of Ana-Lucia. I like her mental toughness, which is probably due in part to her profession before she became stranded.

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched One Of Them and Maternity Leave last night. There really is something special about Michael Emerson's abilities in this show. He really does seem to know how to get under the viewers' skin. It's amazing how he can turn things around that are said to him to suit almost any purpose he might have. I believe Eko had the only method known that can thwart this, and that is not to let Henry (Ben) speak.

One of the highlights of the episode for me occurred when Tom ('Zeke') is shown not to be pleased with how Ethan is handing the situation with Claire. He refers to Ben almost in fear. Yet Ben is at this point in the Hatch -- beaten, bruised, and safely captured. Thankfully, Ben has no way of ever getting out of there.

It was neat seeing another Hatch last night. As I may have mentioned, I almost freaked when I saw 'Dr. Rom' in this one. The sound effects used when Claire was remembering events (brought about by Libby's hypnotizing of her) were similar to those used in Roswell. And the appearance of the white room and the semi-torturous circumstances were eerily reminiscent of that show. It was good to see that Locke also has personal demons that he needs to work through -- but again, these were brought to the forefront by the most dangerous man (to this point) on the island, Ben.

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched The Whole Truth, Lockdown, Dave, and S.O.S. tonight.

Those numbers certainly do show up a lot, don't they? In Lockdown and Dave, they were repeated many times (especially by the 'inmate' in Hurley's and Libby's sanitarium-like agency).

It was fun watching Jack and Sawyer play cards tonight. I really wanted to be in that game as I am an avid fan of all kinds of poker.

S.O.S. was interesting. This is the one where we get a backstory for Bernard and Rose. It was enjoyable, and much slower-paced than what we have seen recently. At the end of the episode we get the return of Michael, and we will learn more from him about 'The Others' in the next episode (Two For the Road). Jack and Kate also get caught in a trap (probably set by Danielle, and not 'The Others'); it was a funny scene, seeing how they got out of this one.

BTW, I love the heiroglyphs. I did the first time I saw them years ago, and they still resonate strongly with me whenever I see them in the Hatch.

 

[Ockeghem]

We watched three more episodes last night: Two For the Road (easily the most hard-hitting episode of the series for me thus far), ?, and Three Minutes. Michael's plan really does have some holes in it, but he is able to fool just about everyone. It was interesting to see Eko and Locke on their quest through the jungle (in order to fulfill Eko's dream and to find Locke's purpose again). Locke now found himself in the position Boone was in when Locke was assured he knew what was going on and Boone had no idea what was occurring. Now Locke is uncertain, and has very little confidence in the island, the Hatch (even going so far as not referring to it as 'his Hatch' any longer), and in pushing the button.

I'm happy to see them using Eko more, and I liked finding out a bit more information about 'The Others.' It was fun seeing Alex in the flashback on the island. The alternate angles were interesting, and seeing her exchange with Kate was illuminating.

I am really uneasy seeing Michael now (for obvious reasons). I can't believe what he did. One murder was intentional, while the other one appeared to be accidental. In any event, two characters that I really enjoyed seeing are now gone.

Tonight, we are going to wrap up the second season, ending with the two-part finale, Live Together, Die Alone. This will be my third time seeing the finale to season two.

Synopsis:

Live Together, Die Alone--

Afer discovering something odd just offshore, Jack and Sayid come up with a plan to confront "The Others" and hopefully get Walt back. Meanwhile, Eko and Locke come to blows as Locke makes a potentially cataclysmic decision regarding the "button" and the hatch.

http://lost-tv.com/episodes/season02.html

 

[TravisR]

For me, the end of Two For The Road was one of the most surprising moments in the history of the show.

 

[Ockeghem]

^^^

Yes, it was. Even watching it for a third time last night, I didn't like the ending. I understand that major (or even secondary) characters almost have to 'die' in most writers' minds to drive a show forward, but I wish there were another way. It's interesting to me how even in a fictional context such decisions can effect loyal viewers such as myself.

 

[Sam Favate]

Originally Posted by Ockeghem

I didn't like the ending. I understand that major (or even secondary) characters almost have to 'die' in most writers' minds to drive a show forward, but I wish there were another way.

But there is another way! I think Lost is a terrific show, but it fails by killing off so many characters (and always during sweeps!). It's overkill (no pun intended). You really tapped into my biggest complaint about the show. I absolutely despise shows (and movies) that kill off major characters in an attempt to lure an audience, and which don't give those deaths much meaning. Yes, I know real life has its moments of random tragedy, but this isn't real life -- it's supposed to be well-written entertainment. I'd argue that none of the characters deaths on Lost advanced the story in a meaningful way, and most were surrounded by plot loopholes.
I am especially talking about Charlie - we are meant to think that he couldn't have escaped, sacrificed himself for the sake of the rest, etc, but he very clearly could have jumped on the other side of that door and slammed it shut.
With very few exceptions, death is nothing but easy drama. It's a way of making the audience think they are feeling something - manipulating an emotional reaction - but when those moves don't ring true, you end up with a series of gimmicks, and that's what the deaths on Lost have been.

About the only death I can think of that worked dramatically is

Spock in Star Trek II, and maybe K'Ehyler (sp?) in The Next Generation.

 

[Ockeghem]

Sam,

I agree with your sentiments above. I would say that it is my only complaint with the show. Receiving answers to questions that have been posed during the run of the series doesn't even come close to a meaningless (albeit fictional) death for me. BTW, I agree with the second spoiler as well. Both were very effectively done -- and both had considerable meaning.

As to the first spoiler? Silly. There really was no reason to have that occur in my opinion.