Laurel And Hardy - 21 Disc Box Set ! (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Neilson]

I'd appreciate it if you could find out, Mark, as I've heard nothing to indicate that the Beau Hunks appear on the UK set. They're actually a Dutch group, so it's possible that this is exclusive to their set. If some of the films are simply accompanied by organ, it's unlikely to be them.
They'd be most likely to play variations on the music that generally plays under the sound shorts and it's likely they'd be mentioned somewhere in the credits.

AMENDMENT : That said, looking back at some of the earlier posts here, there is some cause for hope that you might be right. Can anyone confirm this for certain ?

 

[Anthony Neilson]

By the way, for those joining the thread on this page, a full and comprehensive listing of the relative merits of the Dutch sets versus the R2 UK sets can be found on page 2, post no. 45.

 

[Mark Oates]

That describes the accompaniment on the silents perfectly. I'm chasing up further information, because there's no credit for the music anywhere in the box set.

 

[Mark Oates]

Pardon me for bump-posting, but I've been asking around and I thought the information deserved a fresh post.

I've had a word with Rob Lewis the webmaster of the UK Laurel and Hardy Appreciation Society - who helped Universal put the set together and whose expert Glenn Mitchell wrote the insert notes for.

Rob says he would assume the accompaniment tracks on the UK set are exactly the same as the Benelux editions as both sets are derived from the German masters done by Kirsch Media.

I quote the email he sent me on the question of Beau Hunks and the background of the releases:



If you get an opportunity, drop by Rob's website at:
http//www.laurelandhardy.org

Tell him I sent you

 

[Steve...O]

Altough I live in the USA, I am a member of Rob's tent (and have been for several years). He is a first class guy and I highly recommend joining (it's only $20 per year) if only for the excellent quarterly publication they put out.

I am thoroughly enjoying the UK set as I slowly make my way through it. However I will point out that several days ago the L&H newsgroup pointed out that the B&W version of "BlockHeads" is apparently missing some footage :frowning: which the colorized version includes! How this happened is beyond me since the German and Dutch sets (which use the same masters) are complete. I will try to e-mail Rob this week to see if he has any info on this.

I have quite a few of Micheal Agee's DVDs of the silents and they do look very, very good for the most part. Rumor has it that Michael is working on repackaging the set with improved source materials where available and including a bonus DVD. Unfortunately Mr. Agee hasn't returned any of my e-mails for more information.

I had heard the story about Hallmark wanting to destroy their Roach product (not just L&H, but Charley Chase as well). It makes me sick to my stomach. I had not heard that UCLA was involved.

Steve

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Good one, Mark !

On a less good note, this from www.blotto.nl

" Pardon Us doesn’t look too well in the Features set released by Universal Benelux. That’s because this ‘official’ version is not based on restored 35mm material, as opposed to the ‘extended’ version that was fabricated some years ago, using outtakes.
A pity…
But it was a good idea to include the German trailer of Pardon Us. "

 

[Derek_McL]

I thought the extended cut was now the "official" version : that would certainly make sense if thats the one thats been restored. The German disc allows you to play both cuts : I wonder if the Dutch will let you do the same ? If you look at the Blotto website the extra scenes are definitely there, it would surely make sense to allow you to play both versions. Rather weird and disappointing if the Dutch chose to only allow playing of the release cut??

Personally I think Pardon Us (1931) works much better in the longer cut despite a few duplications. I've never actually watched the release version from beginning to end so I couldn't comment on the quality but at least its there in the European sets. The extended cut certainly seems to be getting some recognition as the official version in the UK : as far I'm aware its the only one on the UK set.

 

[Paul Clifford]

I’ve been keeping my eye on this thread for a while now, it’s the best place I’ve found on the net to find info on l+h dvds. So thanks to all the posters for their info!

I thought I’d share some info of my own! Please excuse me if this has been posted before. Using an l+h filmography (from laurelandhardy.org), I’ve looked at the UK (using Universal UK press release), Dutch (using bastamusic) and German (using blotto.nl) DVDs, seeing what each has and hasn’t got in terms of content. The German set is still ongoing and the contents of the Dutch silents set is yet to appear officially. I will leave aside post 1941 material (mainly Fox features), which no set has, and the 3 lost features ‘Hats Off’, ‘Now I’ll Tell One’ and ‘Rogue Song’, note that only the UK set features these in any form so far (a stills selection from Hats Off).

UK SET

I found the scattershot ‘themed’ approach from the UK set actually covers most of their output. Here’s what the UK doesn’t have –

Lucky Dog (1921 silent) – this is on disc 20 of the German DVDs.
Pardon Us - original non extended version - which is on the Dutch set, with the deleted scenes seperately. German set has both versions.
Fra Diavolo – on Dutch set
Babes in Toyland – on Dutch and German set (disc 21)
Bonnie Scotland – on Dutch set
Flying Deuces – on Dutch set

UK set also has 2 cameos (On The Loose, On The Wrong Trek), 4 solo/related titles (Along Came Auntie, Thundering Fleas, Fluttering Hearts, Prudence), 6 Spanish versions, 1 French version, clips from 1 German version and the Tribute.

GERMAN SET

SO FAR, German set doesn’t have –

Laughing Gravy (extended)
Fra Diavolo – on Dutch set
Bonnie Scotland – on Dutch set
Flying Deuces – on Dutch set

German set also has the same 2 cameos as the UK set (On The Loose, On The Wrong Trek), 1 Spanish version, 1 French version, 4 German versions, 9 solo/related titles, the Tribute and some home movie footage.

Presuming the forthcoming Silents set will be comprehensive, the Dutch discs seem to have everything from 1921 to 1940 except -

Brats (original)
Pardon Us – extended (but has deleted material)

It also has 1 French and 1 Spanish version. Extras disc yet to be confirmed.


So, personally I’m now swaying toward the UK set, as it is pretty comprehensive, nicer boxes, menus, booklets (these are nice to have) etc. It’s missing Lucky Dog, 2 sadly lost films, and the original Pardon Us – I can live with that! It’s just a shame about the volume of it on the shelf, and the appearance of those darn colour versions. And if the discs were ordered in a more orderly way, it maight be clearer just how comprehensive they are! But I can understand they have to appeal to the mass market.

Hope this helps some of you. Please feel free to point out any mistakes! I have an Excel spreadsheet I worked all this out on, so can answer any questions too.

 

[Mark Oates]

If I haven't said it before, I'm extremely happy with my UK set, and I can't really fault the discs.

Some of the missing features/ shorts listed above are available through other distributors (such as Stonevision) under some kind of Public Domain dodge. I'm not up on the legal side of it, but maybe those copies preclude Universal issuing the films as part of their set.

Babes In Toyland is available as March of the Wooden Soldiers and is in acceptable condition. Lucky Dog, Flying Deuces and Utopia are also available. Quality on these discs falls pretty far short of the restorations, but they're better than nothing.

 

[BrianP]

Not trying to take this thread off topic but you need to check this thread out for making your Toshiba 4900 a true region free player, and do away with the remote hack with every non region 1 disc. Also there are some other good hacks being discussed that will help bring the most out of your Toshiba 4900 or 3900 DVD player.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=342250

 

[Steve...O]

Thanks Brian. I've tried to convert it to permanent region free without success using the download. I'll give it another shot. I definitely will make the modification to enable the player to resume playback at the point of shut off.

Back to L&H -

The Dutch set does include some features (Fra Diavolo, Bonnie Scotland) not on other sets. However, early reports are that these are unrestored versions which fall far short in quality of the restored films. There are rumors that Warner Brothers will put a L&H set out of the films they control which would include those two. Kino will be releasing a newly found pristine print of "Flying Deuces" in the US this summer. (An equivalent DVD is already available in France.) I've been told that one of the PD companies that puts out 50 film DVD collections by genre has a very good "Utopia" on one of their sets. Sorry, I can't remember which company does this (a google search of the L&H newsgroup should turn this up.)

For silents - I would recommend with going with the region free DVD series called "Lost Films of L&H) available from the USA. The quality surpasses anything that Kirchgroup did.

From what I understand "Now I'll Tell One" is not a completely lost film. At least one reel survives. Unfortunately it has not been made available for the home video market. Also, I prefer to think of "Hats Off" is merely temporarily misplaced. (I'm an optimistic guy.)
Doesn't the L&H portion of "Rogue Song" sill survive? I know the soundtrack for the film does. I think the L&H portion shows up in part as part of the Technicolor documentary which can be found on Warners' "Robin Hood" DVD.

Steve

 

[Derek_McL]

The Dutch set just has the short Pardon Us then, strange that one : I suppose we won't know for sure until the Features set is available (ie if the extra bits are just there without the ability to play them as part of the feature ?).

One or two minor corrections : Paul, Wrong Again (1929)is in the German set. I have it : its on the Pack Up Your Troubles (1932) disc. Don't quote me on this as I haven't seen the Technicolour documentary and don't know for certain : I believe only a trailer to The Rogue Song (1930) survives which may well feature Stan and Ollie prominently as their appearance in that film was definitely there to help the box office.

If you're going to include Pick A Star (1937) one other guest appearance in Hollywood Party (1933)(all the business of dropping eggs on Lupe Velez) is likely controlled by Warner too.Yes we'll likely get a set from them eventually though the opportunity to own all the Roach features on DVD now is tempting. Personally I wouldn't touch Utopia (1950) their last film with a barge pole.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

The features set IS available, Derek, but I've yet to see a review of it.

 

[Paul Clifford]

Thanks Derek, I wasn't aware Pick a Star was a cameo, and I'm using secondhand information for the German set, corrections appreciated and list amended!

Meanwhile, there is a pic of the 21 UK spines lined up here (apologies for not linking directly, but as a newbie I'm not allowed, so it's cut and paste I'm afraid!)

virginmegastores.co.uk/pws/ViewObject.vms?origin=pwssearchresult.jsp&event=link(pwsviewobject)&ot=review&ps_euk=555542

Not very exciting, but I was curious!

 

[Anthony Neilson]

OK, more by accident than by design, I ended up with the Dutch set of Sound Shorts.

It's absolutely great to have them all on three double-discs and the quality will come as no surprise to those familiar with the Kinowelt masters. The only real disadvantage, as anticipated, is that the menus and the booklet - which looks very informative - are all in Dutch.
Also, the design of the discs is pretty bad.

For me, though, given my groaning shelves, the fact that all of these shorts take up very little room is a major plus. It cost me about £55 for all three discs, bought from a shop in Amsterdam.

I have also seen disc 2 of the features set, and the news is less good. Both OUR RELATIONS and THE BOHEMIAN GIRL are the Kinowelt masters and look fine. BABES IN TOYLAND doesn't have the usual restoration intro and doesn't look so good, though it's still very watchable.
The quality of the BONNIE SCOTLAND print, however, is fairly atrocious. The transfer itself is fine but the print looks like its been under floorboards for a few decades - very poor. It settles down after a while and, again, it's watchable - there's probably no better version out there - but it certainly hasn't been restored in any meaningful sense.

One last caveat - the mail in form in the inserts is also in Dutch, so I've no idea how to go about getting that bonus disc. And I still have no idea what's on it.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

OK, more by accident than by design, I ended up with the Dutch set of Sound Shorts.

It's absolutely great to have them all on three double-discs and the quality will come as no surprise to those familiar with the Kinowelt masters. The only real disadvantage, as anticipated, is that the menus and the booklet - which looks very informative - are all in Dutch.
Also, the design of the discs is pretty bad.

For me, though, given my groaning shelves, the fact that all of these shorts take up very little room is a major plus. It cost me about £55 for all three discs, bought from a shop in Amsterdam.

I have also seen disc 2 of the features set, and the news is less good. Both OUR RELATIONS and THE BOHEMIAN GIRL are the Kinowelt masters and look fine. BABES IN TOYLAND doesn't have the usual restoration intro and doesn't look so good, though it's still very watchable.
The quality of the BONNIE SCOTLAND print, however, is fairly atrocious. The transfer itself is fine but the print looks like its been under floorboards for a few decades - very poor. It settles down after a while and, again, it's watchable - there's probably no better version out there - but it certainly hasn't been restored in any meaningful sense.

One last caveat - the mail in form in the inserts is also in Dutch, so I've no idea how to go about getting that bonus disc. And I still have no idea what's on it.

 

[Cees Alons]

Anthony,

Possibly I can help you with the mail form. If you have an opportunity to scan it, please put a link to a (readable) version up or (or send it by e-mail) or else you could fax the form to me (we'd have to PM about that).


BTW, I'm not a rabid fan of L&H, but I certainly want a representative and considerable sample of their work in my DVD collection, so I have been following this thread with great interest.
Would you now recommend those Dutch sets?

Cees

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Cees, thanks for that. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to do any of those things so I might have to go the analogue route i.e type it out and post it here !

Actually, despite this thread, I wouldn't class myself as a RABID Laurel and Hardy fan either. The Sound shorts are the ones I really love, along with SOME of their feature films and SOME of their silents. So because I'm still marginal about the merits of the competing sets,I've decided to take a piecemeal approach to the collection. I've got all the sound shorts now and I'm going to buy the UK discs that contain the films I like, and some of the better silents.
I've just bought the UK discs that contain SAPS AT SEA and PARDON US (which contains the extended version that reportedly ISN'T on the Dutch sets).

It has to be said that the presentation of the UK discs is quite beautiful, and infinitely better than the Dutch releases. They contain booklets, animated menus, soundbites on menu changes and great cover art. For aesthetic reasons alone, I'll be happy to have a few of these in my collection and - if I choose the right ones - there shouldn't be too many overlaps. I also suspect that the individual discs will start appearing at a much cheaper price quite soon - 2 for £15, that kind of deal.

So the short answer, Cees, is that there's no short answer. If you just want a representative sample of their work then the Dutch sets will give you that, with no frills. If you're a casual fan, the silent shorts (imho) represent their best work. The films are great but they're just longer variations on a theme - though I do think SONS OF THE DESERT is an essential purchase. If I had to buy one feature, it'd be that. Personally, I can live without features like THE BOHEMIAN GIRL, FRA DIAVOLO, SWISS MISS or BABES IN TOYLAND as I much prefer the duo in their own time period and without the crappy musical interludes. BONNIE SCOTLAND and THE FLYING DEUCES I just don't think are very good. Nobody but a die-hard fan is going to be more than vaguely interested in the foreign-language versions, and many of the Silents don't present the duo in exactly the form we're most familiar with. They also don't allow us to hear those fantastic voices.

The best of the Features - again, only in my opinion - are :

PARDON US / PACK UP YOUR TROUBLES / SONS OF THE DESERT
OUR RELATIONS / WAY OUT WEST / BLOCK-HEADS / SAPS AT SEA
and (with qualifications) A CHUMP AT OXFORD.

That's probably about as clear as mud, but that's my gameplan. I'm presuming that the Dutch bonus disc won't be so great, of course, but I'm probably wrong and it'll turn out to be fantastic. So I'm taking my time on the UK discs just in case. Should I decide to go for all the Dutch sets, I'll take you up on your kind offer and PM the details to you somehow.


( BTW, Kinowelt will be releasing a remastered FLYING DEUCES later this year.)

 

[Cees Alons]

Anthony,

Your position on L&H is roughly the same as mine, apparently.
I will mainly be going for the sound shorts and further some silent shorts and two or three Features.
There are also a few I want to own specifically because I saw them as a child (e.g. Dirty Work - still remember the unusual end). I already have them on VHS (some even in both B&W and *blech* coloured-in versions).

Thanks, Anthony. And I'm waiting for your text to (try and) translate.


Cees

 

[Anthony Neilson]

The bonus disc for the Dutch set is currently in production and should be available in October. It's rumoured to contain "cameo roles and home movies".

Have to say this "mail-in for bonus disc" scheme seems a half-assed way to go about things.