Jerry Beck on Stu's Show: Tommorrow at 4 (1 Viewer)

[Traveling Matt]

Originally Posted by ChrisALM
I don't recall hearing before the sets were released that they were not intended for the collector. I do remember hearing how these sets both contained cartoons that were "first time on DVD". A collector would be very interested in knowing that.

When the Golden Collections releases ended we were told WB was looking for a new way to market and release Looney Tunes. So, the first releases after the Golden Collections end are not aimed at collectors?

None of this makes sense to me. It sounds like WB is now backpeddling and trying to avoid a disc replacement situation.

They might be backpedaling from the collector stance, but not from the widescreen issue. The tech specs for Bugs and Daffy were no secret, so I can understand the resistence to do disc replacements.

Personally, I'll wait for the inevitable bundle repackaging of this series. It will give WB the opportunity to correct both the framing issue and the other point of contention: the double dips.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

The AR information on both the Bugs and the Daffy discs were "Standard Version". No mention of widescreen ANYWHERE. Unless the "original theatrical version" phrase was meant to imply it, in which case Warner was being duplicitous.

 

[ChrisALM]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt

They might be backpedaling from the collector stance, but not from the widescreen issue. The tech specs for Bugs and Daffy were no secret, so I can understand the resistence to do disc replacements.

Personally, I'll wait for the inevitable bundle repackaging of this series. It will give WB the opportunity to correct both the framing issue and the other point of contention: the double dips.

I can understand any company wanting to avoid a disc replacement because of the cost involved. If they already restored the material before they chopped it up, the restoration work is already done. That would mitigate some of the cost.

All of this is why I hated to see the Golden Collections series end. While not perfect, they were quality releases and there was a lot to like about them. Now look at what we are getting in their place.

 

[Traveling Matt]

Jerry returned to Stu's show last month with some DVD news. According to writeups found on the web...

• 
  The Roadrunner Super Stars disc is not cancelled, just delayed
• 
  Looney Tunes are coming to Blu-Ray later this year
• 
  The Censored 11 are coming to Blu-Ray ONLY, no DVD release planned
• 
  A Tom & Jerry Golden Collection is coming! BRAND NEW restorations, mostly original titles, etc.

A discussion about the show can be found here:





http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=16058

 

[Eric Peterson]

That's all incredible news, but with WB these days, I don't believe anything until I see it.

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt
Jerry returned to Stu's show last month with some DVD news. According to writeups found on the web...

• 
  The Roadrunner Super Stars disc is not cancelled, just delayed
• 
  Looney Tunes are coming to Blu-Ray later this year
• 
  The Censored 11 are coming to Blu-Ray ONLY, no DVD release planned
• 
  A Tom & Jerry Golden Collection is coming! BRAND NEW restorations, mostly original titles, etc.

A discussion about the show can be found here:





http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=16058

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Oh, so I'm supposed to buy the same old things all over again? What a frustrating hobby this can be!

 

[JoHud]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt
Jerry returned to Stu's show last month with some DVD news. According to writeups found on the web...

• 
  The Roadrunner Super Stars disc is not cancelled, just delayed
• 
  Looney Tunes are coming to Blu-Ray later this year
• 
  The Censored 11 are coming to Blu-Ray ONLY, no DVD release planned
• 
  A Tom & Jerry Golden Collection is coming! BRAND NEW restorations, mostly original titles, etc.

A discussion about the show can be found here:





http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=16058

By chance, I caught the entire show. A few more observations to add here.

• 
  Jerry confirmed he has been hired by George Feltenstein to work on the Warner Archive. He cannot confirm it, but he expressed a strong desire to to get a complete Bosko/Harman-Ising set when possible. He expressed hope that the renewed collaboration between the two can get more cartoon classics released through the program.
• 
  Jerry sounded very sure that the Censored 11 set is being prepared for release, stating that it is actively being worked on. The blu-ray exclusivity one part of the marketing's plan to make sure that it is only bought by adults and enthusiasts and doesn't end up in the hands of children. As in the previous broadcast, it is likely this set will include other "controversial" cartoons in the Warner library they have otherwise been unable to release.
• 
  The Tom & Jerry set will be restored from either existing negatives, or second generation masters. Mouse Cleaning, which is one of the two not released in the Spotlight collections, was named by Jerry in the show as one of the surviving negatives.
• 
  Supported rumors of a Mighty Mouse revival next year to capitalize on the character's 70th anniversary, in addition to increased movement in the future restoration of the Terrytoons library
• 
  Confirmed that the Mr. Magoo theatricals have not been released by Sony because they are not licensed to sell products entitled "Mr. Magoo" on them. Only Classic Media can. He can only hint that there has been "some movement" in getting Columbia's cartoon library released, as they were all restored in the late 90s.
• 
  There was nothing to update regarding Universal's Lantz cartoons.
• 
  Suggested a renewed possibility of getting Betty Boop titles released in the future due to the failure of the Fleischer company's failure in court to prove copyright claims. Recalls that the VHS set was only released by convincing the head of Lionsgate to release them, as the marketing head strongly against releasing them, assuming they were all public domain.
• 
  Hints that Warner Bros is planning an "Animation Explosion" for the Fall 2001 holiday season, with the Looney Tunes blu-ray set, The Complete restored T&J Collection, an "Essential Daffy Duck" DVD set, and likely more (possibly the C11 set). Jerry says the Superstars sets are being phased out for a Looney Tunes future in the Blu-ray format, and that the first Blu-ray set is planned to be frontloaded with the better known classics, so it is likely it will contain titles already released on the Golden Collections w/ a brand new 1080p transfer and restoration (hopefully fixing any of the DVNR that existed in the first golden collection)
• 
  Regarding the aspect ratio of all upcoming released (including the Blu-ray) he confirmed that "they won't be making that mistake again", referring to to strong backlash the first Super Stars set got for cropping for Widescreen. He defended to studio's decision to crop the 1950s cartoons, but agreed that 1955 should have been the cutoff date instead of including the 1953-1954 cartoons which looked worse due to very noticeable cropping in comparison. Future sets are all likely to in a Full-frame ratio with optional Widescreen when appropriate.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

George Feltenstein also mentioned in an interview that the rest of the Popeye cartoons might also be released as Blu-Rays.

I upgraded from VHS to DVD in large part because of the Golden Collection and other classic animation releases. The true successor to the Golden Collections being released on Blu-Ray will be the catalyst for me making the jump there.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

It's not Mighty Mouse's 50th Anniversary -- it's his 70th.

 

[JoHud]

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff
It's not Mighty Mouse's 50th Anniversary -- it's his 70th.

You're right. Edited.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Terrytoons are really the missing link with theatrical cartoons on DVD. What's taking so long? I love me some Heckle and Jeckle.

 

[ChrisALM]

There is a lot of good news here if it all pans out.

I will remain optimistic about Looney Toons on Bluray and wait to see what the release plan is. More Popeye would be great as well, hopefully continuing in the chronological order that is already established. The C11 would/will be great on Bluray, if it ever really happens.

Terrytoons have been MIA on DVD. I would like to see Mighty Mouse, Deputy Dawg, Heckle and Jeckle, Lariat Sam and Tom Terriffic.

The only disappointment is the Universal/Lantz cartoons appear to be stalled.

 

[Traveling Matt]

I really hope they see it fit to allow for a standard DVD release of new titles. I find it difficult to accept the logic of wanting to keep these films in the hands of collectors. Are Blu-rays currently keeping kids away in a fashion that DVD didn't?

 

[Ethan Riley]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt
I really hope they see it fit to allow for a standard DVD release of new titles. I find it difficult to accept the logic of wanting to keep these films in the hands of collectors. Are Blu-rays currently keeping kids away in a fashion that DVD didn't?

I think they meant for now that the Censored 11 is only on bluray because they don't want parents buying it for their kids and then freaking out over the content. And this is totally a topic unto itself, but I also think that when they said they're "phasing out" standard def in favor of bluray what they're really hinting at is that the industry is slowly phasing out standard def entirely. My prediction is that it will be a very slow process--much slower than when they phased out VHS in favor of dvd. The past year or so has seen a lot of releases as bluray only...

 

[Traveling Matt]

Originally Posted by Ethan Riley
And this is totally a topic unto itself, but I also think that when they said they're "phasing out" standard def in favor of bluray what they're really hinting at is that the industry is slowly phasing out standard def entirely. My prediction is that it will be a very slow process--much slower than when they phased out VHS in favor of dvd. The past year or so has seen a lot of releases as bluray only...

A niche market like classic animation is relatively narrow, unlike the market for mainstream movies. All classic animation has so far been released to DVD only, including the most recent Super Stars series. Switching formats now is like suddenly going from collecting stamps to collecting coins. Why can’t we collect both?



Aside from this issue, I think there are two important points regarding the LTs that have yet to be addressed. Besides the disc format, what is the future for collectors? Can we expect a new series that continues in the footsteps of the Golden Collections in terms of unreleased shorts? All the GCs were new-to-disc; would a Blu-ray series continue that tradition? Also, if the market for a Blu-ray series dries up the way the GCs did, what then? It’s unlikely we would acquire the remaining 600 or so unreleased shorts by that time.



The other, more simple question is one of target audience. After all this time, the Super Stars series is still not clearly defined. Is it for collectors or general consumers? The recent addition of both standard framing (for collectors) and widescreen framing (for general consumers) only makes the issue more confusing. Will there be a return to standards?





Abandoning DVD seems to simply add to the puzzle.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt

A niche market like classic animation is relatively narrow, unlike the market for mainstream movies. All classic animation has so far been released to DVD only, including the most recent Super Stars series. Switching formats now is like suddenly going from collecting stamps to collecting coins. Why can’t we collect both?


Aside from this issue, I think there are two important points regarding the LTs that have yet to be addressed. Besides the disc format, what is the future for collectors? Can we expect a new series that continues in the footsteps of the Golden Collections in terms of unreleased shorts? All the GCs were new-to-disc; a Blu-ray series would almost certainly contain double dips. If there is a Blu-ray collectors series, how will a balance be found? Also, if the market for a Blu-ray series dries up the way the GCs did, what then? It’s unlikely we would acquire the remaining 600 or so unreleased shorts by that time.


The other, more simple question is one of target audience. After all this time, the Super Stars series is still not clearly defined. Is it for collectors or general consumers? The recent addition of both standard framing (for collectors) and widescreen framing (for general consumers) only makes the issue more confusing. Will there be a return to standards?


Abandoning DVD only seems to add to the puzzle.

My speculations: the collectors' market is constantly shifting to bluray. Every day more and more of us are purchasing bluray players--and once you go blu, you can't go back! And as more of us have access to blu, more of us write to Warners and demand that classic oldies be released on blu. Warners knows this and is probably taking it into consideration when deciding what gets released on blu. Now when the majority of the collectors' market goes blu, they'll have no choice but to released this material on blu because that's the market they're trying to attract, right? That's what I think. And I'm not gonna weep, 'cause I've been blu for 2 1/2 years and I can hardly stand to watch standard def anymore...it literally hurts my eyes!!

I will offer a possible solution to your problem of the unreleased 600 vs. double-dipping: when the blu collections start, they should offer the unreleased 600 first--make those 600 unseen cartoons on blu--and when they're done, then go back and double-dip the stuff that was on the Golden collections. That way, if interest wanes, we'll have all the unreleased shorts on blu and will at least still have the other 400 on standard def. I think it's a win-win because people won't say, oh I'm not going to buy that on blu because I already have those same cartoons on the Golden collections.

 

[Traveling Matt]

What I think might work better would be to release the double dips to general consumer Blu-rays as a means to support the restoration of unreleased shorts for collectors sets.

Frankly, I don't think another series structured like the GCs would make it to all 600, regardless of format. I'm really surprised this hasn't received more attention from the collector base.

 

[bigshot]

Terrytoons are really the missing link with theatrical cartoons on DVD.

There are a lot of cartoons missing in action. There are many Fleicher films in the Screen Songs, Talkartoons and Betty Boop series that deserve release, and the Famous Studios cartoons have been very poorly served. Mintz, Screen Gems, UPA... George Pal Puppetoons... Features like Mr Bug and Coonskin... An ocean of B&W from most studios... Zagreb, Dave Hand UK cartoons, and other international animation, silent cartoons... Tons of great stuff.
My prediction is that the studios are phasing out standard def in a physical format and mastering new material to hidef, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily moving towards bluray. They are probably looking towards streaming ala Netflix. I think the selection of animation available might actually be not much larger in the future. Increased restoration costs and reduced revenue from streaming will probably make them focus on core titles and repurposing things that are sitting on the shelf rather than dipping into the vaults for new titles.
I think it's a safe bet that the upcoming WB bluray will be the same "50 Greatest" titles that have been released over and over. That isn't necessarily a bad thing for some titles like One Froggy Evening and the first batches of Clampett cartoons that were very poorly mastered on the DVD release.

 

[Timothy E]

Originally Posted by Ethan Riley

I will offer a possible solution to your problem of the unreleased 600 vs. double-dipping: when the blu collections start, they should offer the unreleased 600 first--make those 600 unseen cartoons on blu--and when they're done, then go back and double-dip the stuff that was on the Golden collections. That way, if interest wanes, we'll have all the unreleased shorts on blu and will at least still have the other 400 on standard def. I think it's a win-win because people won't say, oh I'm not going to buy that on blu because I already have those same cartoons on the Golden collections.

I would love to see them give us the unreleased cartoons first instead of making us buy the same shorts again that have been released already several times over on VHS, Beta, laserdisc, and DVD.

I fear that the first blu-ray collection will be a Golden Collection 1.5 with all of the same shorts we already have in our collections. I hope to be proven wrong. There are so many classic shorts that deserve to be seen that are still unavailable for viewing.

I was born after the classic Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies had ceased production, and I despair that I will not have the opportunity even in my lifetime to see all of those classic shorts because the studio will not release them. Look at the small percentage of those shorts that have been repeatedly re-released and repackaged for the last 30 years while a larger proportion of other great Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies have never been released.

The fact that the Censored 11 plus other unreleased shorts are expected on Blu-ray before the end of this year gives me some hope that the studio will make all of the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies available to us and future generations.

 

[ChrisALM]

It would be nice to know the game plan for releasing LTs at the beginning. With the GC's, I think I heard somewhere that WB originally intended to release ten volumes. Then we got to six, and the plug was pulled. The Superstars or Spotlight Collections are fine if there is an option for others (like me) to purchase sets that will ultimately include the entire library of 1000+ LTs. They can repackage these other sets of LTs however they want to market them and make money, if one has the another option to get all the LTs without double dipping. However, if the only option is to buy these repackaged sets, while 600 or so LTs are never released, then I am not sure whether to start purchasing this Bluray option or not. I went along with the Superstars until I found out they were cutting them up. I am finished with those sets. If I can be assured that I am on a path to ultimately collect all LTs on Bluray, then I am on board for the duration of the releases.