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Has SVS met its match?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by EdNichols, Mar 8, 2004.

  1. EdNichols

    EdNichols Well-Known Member

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    I was lurking around the AVS forum and stumbled across a thread talking about a sub called Cantrabass. One person said it could out do their SVS. Does anyone know anything about this sub? Pretty impressive, 114 DB @ 16 hz. with 200 watts Here is a link.
    http://www.servodrive.com/contrabass.html
     
  2. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Well-Known Member

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    where's the link ?
     
  3. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    The Contrabass has been around for years, and yes, it will do 114 db at 16 Hz continuously...

    Has SVS met its match ? ... Well... The Contrabass retails for $5000 without an amp... or the same as two B4+ ...

    Both would be more subwoofer than any but the largest rooms can handle...
     
  4. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Well-Known Member

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  5. EdNichols

    EdNichols Well-Known Member

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    I wondered how much they were. I had not heard of them before. For that kind of money they better be good.
     
  6. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    I have not personally heard them... but they are a reasonable size, have gotten positive reviews (if you are a subscriber, Widescreen Review tested them a few years ago) ... owners love them... And you can rarely find them used... So my guess is they are worth it...
     
  7. Dan Halchak

    Dan Halchak Well-Known Member

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    You might want to check out theBland over there as well, he's got the B-DEAP 32s which are a step above the ContraBass...

    That or you could go for an Infinite Baffle!!! [​IMG]
     
  8. Edward J M

    Edward J M Well-Known Member

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    The Servo-Drive ContraBass was really originally intended for commercial applications. It has found its way into home theaters, though.

    Ditto for the SPL-BDEAP32. I think two of them are installed in the HT system of an AVS member ("the bland" IIRC). The BDEAP is a different animal (horn loaded woofers I think) than the ContraBass, though. Due to a structurally solid room, I think he's getting strong equalized response down into the teens with gobs of headroom.

    While these products have found limited (but very successful) use in HT systems, they don't really directly compete with or compare to the SVS products. With that said, I'm sure Mark Seaton could build a furniture grade version of the ContraBass or the BDEAP for considerably more $$.

    I would say better match-ups for the PB2-Ultra and the B4-Plus would be something like the Acoustic Visions Denali and Everest (although the Everest does weigh around 400 pounds).

    SVS has done custom one-offs in the past for private individuals, and Tom V. has also stated the B4-Plus is certainly not the most powerful subwoofer SVS has ever built - not even close.

    I guess in the end, every manufacturer is contrained by considerations other than sheer output capability. Buyer demographics, price, appearance and WAF, dimensions, weight, and packaging/shipping/handling just to name a few. Seems like SVS has managed this balancing act as well as anyone, judging by its meteoric success.
     
  9. EdNichols

    EdNichols Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how the Contrabass can do 114 db @ 16 hz with only 200 watts. The cabinet size isn't that much different than some other subs. I see that it has 2 drivers and 2 radiators but that sure is alot of boom.
     
  10. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Ed - The Contrabass has a much different belt drive motor system... than the usual magnetic based motors we are used to... their system generates a lot less heat, thus the contimuous 116 db...

    and Yes, the guys that work with Mark Seaton typically spend $100k or more on a theater room...

    You just made me think of something... how would the Denali stack up to an SVS sub ? ...[​IMG]
     
  11. Edward J M

    Edward J M Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Good one, Craig. Just what we've all been dying to know.

    Maybe if a fairy sprinkles some magic dust up your nose while you're sleeping, you might be inspired to conduct just such a comparison, and post it, say....over at HT-SPOT, for example.

    Just a thought........
     
  12. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Ed - Thought you would like that... hopefully we will be able to post results and pictures here...

    [​IMG]

    And for their price classes... the PB2+ and Denali are wonderful products...
     
  13. Mark Seaton

    Mark Seaton Well-Known Member

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    Hi Guys,

    The ContraBass is a unique animal for sure. It has been around since some time around 1989. Our designer tends to be about 10 years ahead of what people are actually making use of, and it is interesting to see that now, more than 10 years later, we are finally finding real justification for 1-4 ContraBass subwoofers in home theaters being built today. In terms of competition, the closest single unit monsters currently available would likely be the Genelec HTS6, the Wilson XS and the Everest, and possibly the B4+ when tuned to 16Hz or 20Hz.

    In the past few years, we have seen a real jump in low frequency performance expectations and requirements in soundtracks, and the latest crop of subwoofers are leaps and bounds beyond what was available 5-6 years ago. What really sets the ContraBass apart is it's ability below 25Hz, right on down to 14-16Hz. Just as important as its ability to deliver high levels, is the dynamic linearity at these levels. This comes from very minimal compression and the quite unique characteristic of being one of the only subwoofers to yeild lower distortion as power is increased. So far as the efficiency, that is where the ServoDrive mechanism allowed our designer Tom Danley to precisely match the system to maximize low frequency efficiency in the space available.

    Unfortuantely at the moment the pictures on the website are only of the old carpeted units, which look very "tour worthy." I am in fact waiting on the pre-production sample of the cosmetic re-work of the box. This should make for a cleaner look, and even allow the possibility of a premium veneer or finish option.

    Cheers,
     
  14. Mark Seaton

    Mark Seaton Well-Known Member

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    To Craig-

    I would much rather have you check out some full range speakers as compared to your K-Horns than lug another subwoofer down to the basement. [​IMG]
     
  15. terence

    terence Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mark,

    Has anyone or The Bland done a review on The Runts yet?
     
  16. Mark Seaton

    Mark Seaton Well-Known Member

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    thebland has been working on adjustments in the system since he recently upgraded his pre-pro. There is a thread on AVS Forum about the runts where this would probably get a better response. The runts aren't packaged as of yet for typical in-room use, but with a good deal of power, a front 3 of runts will easily allow one to really let a ContraBass or two breathe. Eventually we will re-package a very similar design for those who aren't building everything in. For those concealing the system, the little runts can scare you. [​IMG]
     
  17. terence

    terence Well-Known Member

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    Thx Mark.
     
  18. Arthur S

    Arthur S Well-Known Member

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    Mark

    Some of us are curious about the cost of the B-DEAP 32. Apparently it is one of the few speakers that can compete with a HSU 1220. As you may be aware, Don Keele measured 101 db @ 12.5 Hz with 150 watts input, and 110 db at 16Hz. These measurements included room gain.

    Never the less, very few subs can match that kind of performance. The bland has stirred the interest of a number of people and he posted a scope shot going down to 10 Hz.

    What is the price of admission on the B-DEAP 32?

    Thanks

    Artie
     
  19. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Well-Known Member

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    I half expected this thread to be about Infinite Baffle configurations. My IB blows my doors off for a very small investment in money (but a big investment in time and work - all of it fun!).
     
  20. Edward J M

    Edward J M Well-Known Member

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    The TN1220 was measured in a room at 2 meters with the mic halfway between the port and woofer.

    The output figures you quoted were for the short term maximum peak acoustic output, and distortion was not measured as part of that test.

    Keele measured the average sensitivity to be 83 dB @ 2.8V/1M - very inefficient (by two orders of magnitude) compared compared to the horn-loaded B-DEAP32 at anywhere from 100-110 dB @ 2.83V/1M.

    And at 16 Hz, he measured 104 dB with 22% (!) harmonic distortion. Hardly a noteworthy performance and certainly not in the same league as the dual 12", horn-loaded, ultra efficient B-DEAP32.

    While the deep extension of the B-DEAP32 will be largely dependent on the structural integrity/solidity of the room boundaries, and the room loading of the subwoofer itself, its extraordinary efficiency and extremely high thermal power handling allow the application of significant amounts of EQ to extend the response strong into the teens with tons of clean headroom still remaining.


    These two products really cannot be compared in terms of clean output; they are totally different designs and alignments.

    A much better match-up for the $1,700 dual TN1220 with the latest 400W x 2 amp, would be the $1,800 dual SVS 16-46 CS-Plus with the Samson 500 W x 2 amp and the SVS-01 Marchand Bass Interface Box. That's a match-up I'm sure many cylinder aficionados would be interested in seeing. [​IMG]
     

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