Babylon 5 newbies? (Richard Biggs - RIP) (1 Viewer)

[Eric C D]

It's irritating beyond belief that Straczynski spoils the ending of the series in his commentary to episode 13.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about it, but that would be a problem for those of you enjoying it for the first time. I've noticed that in general about commentaries, so it's proabably a lesson for all of us in other like situations.

Mark, Julie, or other newbies: here are a couple of other things to know. If anyone else remembers some ways to help others enjoy B5 for the first time, please chime in as well.

1. The pilot (The Gathering) is on a two-show disk with another movie (In the Beginning). Do NOT watch "In the Beginning" until after Season 4. (nitpickers will say you can watch it earlier, but it was produced between season 4 and 5, so most think it belongs there).

2. If you haven't gotten into Season 2 yet; quick-like, put a wrapper around the box set, hurry through the menus, and don't watch the credits for the first two episodes. (This is just a minor spoiler, so don't worry too much about it).

I started reading this thread to see what people new to the experience think of the show. BTW Mark, if you're enjoying S1, you are *really* going to be in love with the show by the end of S2. Hope you all have fun!

Eric

 

[Julie K]

Eric,

Thanks for the warning but unfortunately I didn't know about that before I picked up "The Gathering/In the Beginning". "Hmmm....In the Beginning - sounds like an early episode!" ARRGHH! Anyway, I'm getting rather cranky over the number of spoilers and am swearing off commentaries until the end of Season 5.

But as for the show itself, I'm loving it. I loved Season 1 and was dubious when people told me it would get even better. Hey, it was already terrific, how could it get better? But after watching Season 2 (in 3 days) I see now they were right. I don't know how I'm going to manage the wait until Season 3.

But I have one little inconsequential, non-arc spoilerish question - do we get to see more of the pakmara(sp?)?

 

[Eric C D]

Smarmy spoilerish (if you haven't finished season 2 yet) reply to Julie:

You'll see more of the Pakmara than you will of the Markab.

More sincere reply:

If I remember, like the the other non-aligned worlds they are dealt with as a species, not much as individuals. But don't want to say if anything happens to them as a group or not. To answer either way tells things.

But you had to like them when the Mimbari body was missing, don't ya.

 

[Rob T]

do we get to see more of the pakmara(sp?)?

No. They're mostly just in the background walking around and in the council meetings.

 

[MikeMcNertney]

I can understand being upset about the commentaries. What you have to remember though is that they are meant more for fans of the series (who are presumed to know what happens) than for first-timers. It would make the commentaries much less interesting if they couldn't discuss how the episode affected later events.

I'd say just avoid all commentaries until you've seen it all the way through, then go back for the insights. I would guess that would be true for pretty much any series

 

[Julie K]

Eric,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I really had to laugh when they got their stomachs pumped when the Minbari body went missing and then again with the very brief glimpse of their restroom facilities in one of the Season 2 episodes
I'll be happy with more little things like that.

But in your first response lies one of the reasons I really like this show. Horrible things happen that cannot be undone and sometimes no one is able to put things right. Watching the show I sometimes fall into the mindframe of other SF shows and think, "Ok, so-and-so is going to do this-and-that and save the day in the last 10 minutes." Only that doesn't seem the rule in B5. Most refreshing.

 

[BrianW]

Watching the show I sometimes fall into the mindframe of other SF shows and think, "Ok, so-and-so is going to do this-and-that and save the day in the last 10 minutes." Only that doesn't seem the rule in B5. Most refreshing.

Oh, goodness... Such innocence. (No offense!) I have no idea what to say, except: Please, please, please stay away from spoilers. Just another SF TV show, this is not.

 

[Julie K]

Just another SF TV show, this is not.

)

Oh well, it's hard to be a B5 newbie - all we can do is babble our love of the show while you guys tell us the best is yet to come

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

I don't know if you can call them spoilers but if you pay attention there are many instances of foreshadowing, starting with the first episode. But I won't spoil the moments of foreshadowing by telling you what they are. In most cases, when the foreshadowed event comes to pass, you'll be reminded of it.

 

[Tony_P]

IMO, the best part of B5 is/was the character arcs. There are very few stereotypical characters on that show. Like in a great novel (and that's pretty much what B5 was planned to be), the characters and their personal journeys are the most important parts of the story.

 

[BrianW]

How true. I've always been drawn to and touched by stories in general in which characters are not the same at the end of the story as they were at the beginning. Stories in which characters experience a change of heart I find especially compelling.

As far as B5 goes, as Julie has noted, it's very refreshing to watch a SF TV show without a Big Red Reset Button that they push at the end of every episode.

Then again, maybe I just like stories in which #### happens to the characters as much and as often as it happens to me.

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One more reason I appreciate B5 - and I'm sure Julie can appreciate this - is because...
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comment on the portrayal of technology on B5 follows. I don't consider it a spoiler, since you should be aware of these thing after watching the pilot, but avoid if you wish.
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...the space ships move in Newtonian, rather than aerobatic, fashion, and light-based weapons are instant-on and don't appear to have a 30kph propagation speed.

 

[RickGr]

B5 hits its zenith during season 3 IMO. Early season 4 is good but 3 is the tops.

 

[TheLongshot]

Watching the show I sometimes fall into the mindframe of other SF shows and think, "Ok, so-and-so is going to do this-and-that and save the day in the last 10 minutes." Only that doesn't seem the rule in B5. Most refreshing.

Farscape also has some of that as well. It is nice to be able to not predict how the episode will end (Unlike Star Trek..).

Jason

 

[Mark Zimmer]

The spoilers about the series ending didn't seem to me to be a connecting-the-dots though, but just a gratuitous comment that easily could have been omitted or referenced in a slightly more obtuse manner. Or at least a warning given that there would be GIGANTIC spoilers present.

Anyway, I'm skipping the commentary to Chyrsalis, much as it pains me to put away the set incompletely watched. On to S2....

 

[Mike Broadman]

Most of the people buying the DVDs are already probably familiar with the series, so I don't consider the commentaries spoilers. But, yeah, newbies should avoid them for now.

I think the actors commentary didn't really have any, though.


Lots of people die in this series. It makes all the talk about sacrifice and the grand speeches in the show actually mean something.

 

[Eric C D]

I rewatched In the Beginning over the weekend to see how much was spoiled - I knew the primary item, but wasn't sure what might have been said or implied. Was glad to see the major items aren't touched - you are pretty well back on track by the end of S2. Has anyone who knows the whole story listened to the the Signs and Portents commentary and care to give a non-spoilage answer as to how bad that was? If not, I'll try to do it soon (probably over the Memorial Day weekend).

On the note of a show without a big reset button (where things happen to people - sometimes to those you care about); 24 is getting soooo close to this concept. But besides that willingness to have a story with real danger to the principals, I thought that B5s ability to use single-episode, self-contained stories to set the stage for later developments was one of the mechanisms that made the show more interesting.

[a small example, spoiled to protect those who haven't gotten through S2, ep 2]Dr. Franklin using the machine from The Quality of Mercy to heal Girabaldi

Be aware there's a lot of that going on - some of it apparent (you just know there's more to A Voice in the Wilderness, don't you!), but some of it not. And while some of the set ups are for the story arc, some are just for smaller purposes, like maybe for one episode that has nothing to do with the arc. There was one concept that introduced in S1 that pays off in S3 in my favorite single episode of B5 - not the popular favorites having to do with the story arc, but just an individual story, much like the great SF short stories of Asimov and Clarke that forced you to reconsider values or think about deep concepts. I'm sure I'll gush about it some time after S3 comes out.

enjoy,

Eric

 

[Holadem]

Eric, what episode is that? No spoiler, just the name.

--
Holadem

 

[Mike Broadman]

From what I remember, the commentary for S&P wasn't really that bad regarding spoilers, but still best to avoided for one who truly wants to experience the show cleanly.

 

[Eric C D]

I couldn't resist sitting through the S&P commentary to check. Mike is right - it really wasn't *that* bad.

Mark, this is for you or anyone else who happened to watch the S&P commentary - anyone else, it might imply what was discussed:
[I'm staying obtuse in case someone who didn't listen to the commentary decides to read this anyway - go away! :smile:] All JMS does is confirm that those specific things he talked about are going to come true. You'll see them repeatedly throughout the series in different ways anyway, and be pretty sure they will happen before they do. As JMS says, the interesting part is why or how they happen.
Between the two problems (S&P commentary and "In the Beginning"), ItB contains bigger spoilers, but those events are over sooner, so it's a trade off.

P.S. Holadem, I sent you the response by email.

enjoy,

Eric

 

[Eric C D]

OK, back to our regularly-scheduled discussion.

Holadem asked if the Hugos are a "worthy" award, for what he considers perhaps the best episode of a TV show he's ever seen.

The Hugos are the premiere award in Fantasy and SF. It's pretty much the Acadamy Award for written SF. The list of Hugo Award winning SF novels is pretty much a list of the greatest SF of all time. They only give one award for dramatic presentation, and it's usually guaranteed to be a movie. That Coming of Shadows won over Apollo 13 (imho one of the finest science movies ever made) is an even greater kudo. It's not like it was a walkover.

The previous year, B5 kind of screwed up because multiple episodes were nominated, and they stole votes from each other.