Babylon 5 newbies? (Richard Biggs - RIP) (1 Viewer)

[TheLongshot]

They only give one award for dramatic presentation, and it's usually guaranteed to be a movie.

That's actually finally been changed this year. They now have a "Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form" category for TV. No Farscape, but the pilot for "Firefly" got nominated.

Jason

 

[Mike Broadman]

Just to add something about the way the series is structured: even if you know what will happen, it creates a different kind of suspense. It's like a Hitchcock movie- the audience knows what some character is planning and how it will end, but watching it unfold is thrilling.

Ideally, IMO, you can get the most out of it by first watching the series in the order it was released (ie, In the Beginning after season 4) while knowing absolutely nothing going in; then watch it again. You get to experience it in two different ways.

 

[Holadem]

Eric, Thanks.

Actually I knew the importance of the Hugos for written Sci-Fi, I just didn't know if they carried any weight as far as TV or film were concerned. I finally saw the featurette, that was some stiff competition!

--
Holadem

 

[Craig P]

Be aware there's a lot of that going on - some of it apparent (you just know there's more to A Voice in the Wilderness, don't you!), but some of it not. And while some of the set ups are for the story arc, some are just for smaller purposes, like maybe for one episode that has nothing to do with the arc.

There are even setups that never pay off -- we theorize about what they were originally intended to lead to, and why it didn't happen. There are really two major changes in the cast that lead to this, you should know them when you see them.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Just finished S2 yesterday, doing the last 2 discs in rapid succession. Generally terrific stuff, but the last 2 episodes were a huge letdown. The Inquisitor episode was just plain unsubtle and ham-handed; once he said when and where he was from, it was obvious who he was. JMS didn't need to keep coming back and hammering us over the head with his identity. The finale with the Kosh revelation was going exactly where I feared it would from the foreshadowing. Cheap, trivial crap. I expected better from this excellent setup. I suppose I'll go on to S3 but these last 2 episodes really left a bad taste.

 

[Mike Monti]

That's part of what's good about the show even though you think the "secret of the vorlons" has been revealed there's actually much more to it and let it be know that your issues with Sebastian have come up before. I offer This link as the only defense. BTW this Midwinter site is the next best thing to sliced bread. They stay away from spoilers so it's safe and I highly recommend reading each episode's page after watching the ep.

Needs to be made into a book.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Thanks for the link. At least they did fix the subtitles on the DVD so they say "East End" instead of the erroneous "West End" spoken by Sheridan.

One thing completely unexpected is that I'm enjoying Stephen Furst more and more; he's really doing a great job with the character of Vir and providing him a lot of depth.

 

[Julie K]

The Inquistor episode didn't do much for me either.

I greatly enjoyed the finale however. I think the fact that everyone saw something different means that this relevation may not be the complete answer. Not to mention that fact that someone's been doing quite a bit of meddling it seems.

 

[Rob T]

I've always enjoyed The Inquisitor episode. It's pretty much a 2 person stage play. "Intersections into Real Time" (season 4) is the same way.
or maybe it's just because I like hearing about different theories about Jack and what happeened to him.
There's quite a few good lines in the episode too. Mostly spoken by Jack though.

 

[Quentin]

I don't find the Kosh revelation at the end of S2 to be cheap or trivial...but, it IS somewhat derivative. Still, I like the idea of the Vorlons being so involved in our evolution. Particularly, when we learn the entire truth about them. It's very DUNE.

But, JMS (and a lot of TV in general) DOES tend to bash you over the head a lot. He's not a subtle writer very often...but, the vision and scope of the show tend to make up for it.

 

[Paul McElligott]

Just finished S2 yesterday, doing the last 2 discs in rapid succession. Generally terrific stuff, but the last 2 episodes were a huge letdown. The Inquisitor episode was just plain unsubtle and ham-handed; once he said when and where he was from, it was obvious who he was. JMS didn't need to keep coming back and hammering us over the head with his identity. The finale with the Kosh revelation was going exactly where I feared it would from the foreshadowing. Cheap, trivial crap. I expected better from this excellent setup. I suppose I'll go on to S3 but these last 2 episodes really left a bad taste.

Odd, because those episodes are generally considered to be among the best of series, let alone season 2. I agree that the revelation at the end of "Comes the Inquisitor" was a little ham-fisted but other than that I have no complaints.

 

[Eric C D]

Re the Vorlon revelation: those that had it figured out ahead of time - good on ya. Even if you consider it derivative or obvious, have you considered the implications? And I'll be curious what you think after it's all played out. If you aren't happy with where they've left it, please remember what season 2 was about.
From the season 2 intro: It was the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind...the year the Great War came upon us all.

And one other thing about The Fall of Night that I reflected on while rewatching. When I originally watched it, I was totally blown away by the space battles. Not to start a ST/B5 fight, but compare it to the battles from TNG. It made the ST types raise the effects bar for DS9 and Voyager. Now, I'm more jaded, but at the time - wow! And hey, I'm still scared by the Shadow ships and just agape by the things that "walk near Sigma-957" (way back in Mind War).

There are a lot of concepts in Bab 5 that are old hat to people who've read a lot of Sci Fi. But I *do think* that JMS et al do a better job of presenting these themes in the media of television than I have seen before. For comparison, the Terminator is just a retelling of a classic sci fi time travel paradox story - heck, I've read variations on that theme at least a dozen times before I ever saw the movie. (hope that didn't spoil it for anyone). The surprise was that they turned into a nice tight action movie.

Re Comes the Inquisitor - I'm in agreement that it's not my favorite (even if I want to try to like it as I knew the guest star in high school). There are other eps I don't like that others love, and some that I love that others don't. That's why they have horse races.

Re JMS hitting over you on the head - he discusses it in his commentaries (which you may still want to avoid until seeing the whole series for the reasons discussed before). He basically says it was tough to try to mix a large story with the episodic approach necessary for people just tuning in - that it lead to a lot of repititous exposition. I think the effect is magnified when we can go directly from one episode to another without even a week in between. "yeah, yeah! you just told me that last hour - I don't need to hear it again!" I've had moments like that while watching the DVDs. But I'm still not asking them to re-edit it into a hundred-hour mini-series.

The real enjoyment to me this time figuring out what happens next, it's enjoying what I might have missed the first time around. Also, watching the characters (and actors) develop. Boy, they all seem so rough in the first year compared to later on. For example as noted recently, how Stephen Furst grows into Vir. I don't mean to be trite by going to the more leading roles, but Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas give two of my favorite acting jobs anywhere, anytime. A simple "Fah!" stands up to "You want the truth, you can't handle the truth" (OK, saw an ad for A Few Good Men last night). They're such a good duo playing off each other, maybe JMS can write them "Grumpy Old Aliens" as a vehicle in a few more years.

Fah!

Eric

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Perhaps some of my disappointment with the finale is that given the thematic material thus far, not to mention the episode names, I was expecting this to be a very dark resolution/cliffhanger to the season, and it didn't play out that way at all. Instead one is left with the feeling that, oh, OK, everything's fine after all. I just ended up with the same empty no-progress feeling that Trek induces, and that had previously been so nicely dodged. Maybe that's not how seasons 3-5 end up, but I'm not feeling compelled to continue to find out.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Rob_T, the comparison to Intersections in Real Time is good. I like Inquisitor, but absolutely love Real Time. It is easily a top 3 episode in my book.

I'll admit I didn't really guess who Sebastian is the first time I saw it up until right before he said it, so I can understand him going that far (you know, for idiots like me ).

Stephen Furst gets even better. The first half of season 4 is his best.

(even if I want to try to like it as I knew the guest star in high school).

Which guest star, Wayne Alexander (Sebastian)?

That guy is great- he plays many alien roles on the show and is possibly the most frequent guest star on B5.

 

[Julie K]

I just ended up with the same empty no-progress feeling

 

[BrianW]

I suppose I'll go on to S3 but these last 2 episodes really left a bad taste.

"Bad Taste" is one thing. "Horrible Puke" is another. I think B5 is a magnificent series, but one of the MOST impressive things about the series is how "Not Bad" each episode manages to be.

In even the best, most acclaimed television series that last five years or longer, there are many regretable, embarrassing, and stupid episodes that border on (or dive right into) unwatchable quality.

With B5, there are a few episodes that may occasionally dip into mediocrity, but you will NEVER find a "Spock's Brain" in the entire five-year run!

Well, "Infection" comes close, but that's the only one, I swear!


As for the revelation in the season 2 finale, just remember that with three years to go, you've got a lot of ground to cover. Season 2 just gets the ball rolling...

 

[Mike Broadman]

JulieK, your guess about the Shadow ships are on the right track. However, like many things in this show, there is a twist. Reading some of your posts in the After Hours Lounge, I think it's one you'll enjoy.

 

[BrianW]

Julie also hit on something that is sorely missing from ST, especially Enterprise. Who would have thought after three centuries in space that any of the aliens we encounter would be more technologically advanced than we are?

As for the Shadow ships, I believe their surface is derived from a CG texture called "Dog Nose."

 

[Eric C D]

Which guest star, Wayne Alexander (Sebastian)?

That guy is great- he plays many alien roles on the show and is possibly the most frequent guest star on B5.

Not as momentous as The Coming of Shadows perhaps, but they do not "unring the bell" in B5. And think of where they are in regards to where the series started.

Now I am not putting down your dissatifaction. If they haven't done their job and gotten your interest, then it isn't worth your time. Heaven knows there's a lot of series many people like that I just don't get or am willing to spend time on.

toodles,

Eric

 

[Joshua_W]

"The Fall of Night" is, in many ways, a "dark" episode. It's just not apparent.

In many ways, the episode deals with the loss of innocence. The Vorlons are revealed. The Shadows have been outed, and not longer have to work in secrecy. Sheridan defied both Earthforce and Earthforce's newfound allies. That's not something that will be forgotten or forgiven.

"The Fall of Night" is the calm before the storm.