A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Great Escape -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[haineshisway]

They look fine to me.

They look fine to you because they are accurate to this film's look. These people and their caps - I wish it would stop, really.

And frankly, I would like the name of the person who first used the expression "teal and orange" - they should be run out of town on a rail. It's become the most cliched thing on message boards, and has replaced DNR, edge enhancement, OCN, O-neg, shadow detail, and crushed blacks as the comment du jour.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Listen.... I don't want to trash another site. We like the people who runDVDBeaver. However, after all the problems the screencaps that site has posted over the years has caused (and turned out not to be entirely true), I can't put faith into what gets posted there. People don't watch individual frames. a frame representsa blip of an entire sequence. I have seen many people question if the monitor thesescreencaps were taken from is properly calibrated. Again, people should not rely on screencaps. IMO, theyseldom give a true estimation of how an entire film's transferwill look.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The BD playing doesn't look like the screencaps to me color-wise especially when it came to some compound scenes.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Listen....

I don't want to trash another site. We like the people who run
DVDBeaver.

However, after all the problems the screencaps that site has
posted over the years has caused (and turned out not to be
entirely true), I can't put faith into what gets posted there.

Again, people should not rely on screencaps.

True, they really shouldn't use PowerDVD to make them, heres the thing though, we have someone who has worked on film colour timing saying there is something wrong with The Great Escape, we have someone saying he saw a recent showing in 4K and the blu ray doesn't resemble that showing and even Mr Harris and another poster mention aliasing in the image, something is amiss but no one knows what or why.

You also have to bear in mind screencaps viewed on a computer will look different to a blu ray film viewed on a calibrated large screen setup, i think screencaps are useful if taken correctly to show issues with edge enhancement or DNR, i like cap-a-holics who do a good job but i don't like DVD Beaver because they use awful software with inbuilt issues to take the caps.

 

[Robert Crawford]

True, they really shouldn't use PowerDVD to make them, heres the thing though, we have someone who has worked on film colour timing saying there is something wrong with The Great Escape, we have someone saying he saw a recent showing in 4K and the blu ray doesn't resemble that showing and even Mr Harris and another poster mention aliasing in the image, something is amiss but no one knows why or what.

Something is amiss to some while others such as RAH, have recommended the BD. We get these varying opinions on just about every BD release especially catalog titles.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Something is amiss to some while others such as RAH, have given recommended the BD. We get these varying opinions on just about every BD release especially catalog titles.

Not so, Mr Harris mentions aliasing, he mentions it looking digital rather than film like, something is not right, i always edit posts after posting, i edited my post slightly to what you quoted above, listen lets not pretend something is what it isn't, we have all watched great looking organic film like blu ray presentations in recent years, once again i ask why The Great Escape doesn't fall into that category, i don't understand the 4.5/5 score when there is aliasing never mind the digital look, i respect Mr Harris and think he calls it right most of the time but occasionally i don't agree with him.

Blu ray is a digital medium, yes, so what, so tell me why so many other films can look more like film, or we could get straight to the point and say someone either didn't spend the money on the blu ray release or messed up somewhere, why does a film like West Side Story get pounced upon but The Great Escape is given a pass, that's what i want to know.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Not so, Mr Harris mentions aliasing, he mentions it looking digital, something is not right, i always edit posts after posting, i edited my post slightly to what you quoted above.

He also "Highly Recommended" this release, but even if he didn't, the BD passed my HT test which counts over anything else somebody has to say about it.

 

[haineshisway]

Not so, Mr Harris mentions aliasing, he mentions it looking digital rather than film like, something is not right, i always edit posts after posting, i edited my post slightly to what you quoted above, listen lets not pretend something is what it isn't, we have all watched great looking organic film like blu ray presentations in recent years, once again i ask why The Great Escape doesn't fall into that category, i don't understand the 4.5/5 score when there is aliasing never mind the digital look, i respect Mr Harris and think he calls it right most of the time but occasionally i don't agree with him.

Blu ray is a digital medium, yes, so what, so tell me why so many other films can look more like film, or we could get straight to the point and say someone either didn't spend the money on the blu ray release or messed up somewhere, why does a film like West Side Story get pounced upon but The Great Escape is given a pass, that's what i want to know.

Simple question: Have you seen the transfer? Because there is no "teal and orange" and I don't care what a color timer says, because this transfer's color is right on the money for a film of its era - the color is correct. Whatever else one may think of the Blu-ray, and I like it just fine, the color is not at issue.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Simple question: Have you seen the transfer? Because there is no "teal and orange" and I don't care what a color timer says, because this transfer's color is right on the money for a film of its era - the color is correct. Whatever else one may think of the Blu-ray, and I like it just fine, the color is not at issue.

I didn't specifically mention colour timing and never once mentioned teal and orange, i am referring to the posts from previous pages, but anyways since you brought it up are you saying someone who worked in the industry is wrong, hmmm, okay well i think his opinion counts and is certainly as valid as yours or Mr Harris at this site.
Other people posting have mentioned certain things about the release, thus i don't get the highly recommended tag, it either looks like a new 4K scan or it doesn't, which is it, and if it doesn't then surely it's not as good as it can be and in 2013 we have higher expectations due to so many other classic films looking great on blu ray, looking good isn't hard these days, looking pristine great is. Yes i edited the post, many times, i always do.

 

[Robert Harris]

Not so, Mr Harris mentions aliasing, he mentions it looking digital rather than film like, something is not right, i always edit posts after posting, i edited my post slightly to what you quoted above, listen lets not pretend something is what it isn't, we have all watched great looking organic film like blu ray presentations in recent years, once again i ask why The Great Escape doesn't fall into that category, i don't understand the 4.5/5 score when there is aliasing never mind the digital look, i respect Mr Harris and think he calls it right most of the time but occasionally i don't agree with him.

Blu ray is a digital medium, yes, so what, so tell me why so many other films can look more like film, or we could get straight to the point and say someone either didn't spend the money on the blu ray release or messed up somewhere, why does a film like West Side Story get pounced upon but The Great Escape is given a pass, that's what i want to know.

I'm giving the BD a very decent grade, because we live in the real world, and it's a problematic film, owned by a problematic owner.

As such, it looks far better than I thought that it would. Grain structure aside, it looks quite good, with reasonably accurate color projected. The caveat is don't go more than 120 inches, or the image falls apart.

Is something wrong. Absolutely. Will 99% of the viewing public love the disc. Absolutely. Especially on smaller viewing devices.

I'm surmising here, and I generally don't do that. I'm thinking that the film went through a very decent 4k workout, and files were dedicated to Blu-ray. Somewhere between the 4k data and the Blu-ray, someone intervened to make it "better."

"That's all folks."

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Simple question: Have you seen the transfer? Because there is no "teal and orange" and I don't care what a color timer says, because this transfer's color is right on the money for a film of its era - the color is correct. Whatever else one may think of the Blu-ray, and I like it just fine, the color is not at issue.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about! Have you ever seen a two-color Technicolor film?

They're all teal and orange! What are you smoking?

RAH

 

[FoxyMulder]

I'm thinking that the film went through a very decent 4k workout, and files were dedicated to Blu-ray. Somewhere between the 4k data and the Blu-ray, someone intervened to make it "better."

RAH

Yes and that's the part i actually understand and is also why i don't agree with the 4.5/5 score.

 

[Robert Harris]

Yes and that's the part i actually understand and is also why i don't agree with the 4.5/5 score.

You have to understand the previously noted MGM handicap.

A 4.5 probably equates to a 3.2.

Unless the film falls into the water.

RAH

 

[FoxyMulder]

You have to understand the previously noted MGM handicap.

A 4.5 probably equates to a 3.2.

Unless the film falls into the water.

RAH

I will take note and remember for future reviews.

P.S. Bruce, no i haven't seen it, i'm relying on everyone here for the info and its been a little conflicting at times and that's why i have felt like posting and asking questions and ( probably ) being a pain in the ass, it isn't released here until June 3rd but i do want to buy it, i love this movie and that's why i want it to look as good as it can for this format.

 

[FrancisP]

A film preservationist, Torsten Kaiser, said this in a interview on another site.

"Let me start with The Great Escape. It was also for broadcast. I wish we could have gotten MGM to really go back and at least touch the material below the interpositive level. This is really something that they need to re-do. It should be a restoration project re-done from scratch – from negative scratch, so to speak – because it has things in there in terms of photochemical processing that are way more difficult due to, for one thing, the separation masters that were used for the creation of the intermediate negative, copying choices and choices of lenses; things that simply did not match. The problem was that MGM sent a master to the broadcaster that had been extremely, heavily de-noised by an outside vendor. But the greatest problem in The Great Escape is the colors. The colors were severely off in that MGM master. It was the same on the 2-disc edition DVD, so you have a bucket load of blue and magenta in there that does not belong. The uniforms are all wrong because of the color correction, and it's way too hot, meaning it's extremely contrast-y; burnt-out whites, crushed blues and blacks, and all. It exhibits red crush in some cases too, so it's completely screwed. We did a new color timing as best as we could, at least. The master, now, mostly looks really, really good."

While the picture is not horrible, it could be better. However this is likely as good as it is going to get.

 

[Lromero1396]

A film preservationist, Torsten Kaiser, said this in a interview on another site.

"Let me start with The Great Escape. It was also for broadcast. I wish we could have gotten MGM to really go back and at least touch the material below the interpositive level. This is really something that they need to re-do. It should be a restoration project re-done from scratch – from negative scratch, so to speak – because it has things in there in terms of photochemical processing that are way more difficult due to, for one thing, the separation masters that were used for the creation of the intermediate negative, copying choices and choices of lenses; things that simply did not match. The problem was that MGM sent a master to the broadcaster that had been extremely, heavily de-noised by an outside vendor. But the greatest problem in The Great Escape is the colors. The colors were severely off in that MGM master. It was the same on the 2-disc edition DVD, so you have a bucket load of blue and magenta in there that does not belong. The uniforms are all wrong because of the color correction, and it's way too hot, meaning it's extremely contrast-y; burnt-out whites, crushed blues and blacks, and all. It exhibits red crush in some cases too, so it's completely screwed. We did a new color timing as best as we could, at least. The master, now, mostly looks really, really good."

While the picture is not horrible, it could be better. However this is likely as good as it is going to get.

I believe this interview has been proven as not referring to the master used for the BD transfer.

 

[Robert Harris]

I believe this interview has been proven as not referring to the master used for the BD transfer.

Correct.

 

[haineshisway]

I didn't specifically mention colour timing and never once mentioned teal and orange, i am referring to the posts from previous pages, but anyways since you brought it up are you saying someone who worked in the industry is wrong, hmmm, okay well i think his opinion counts and is certainly as valid as yours or Mr Harris at this site.
Other people posting have mentioned certain things about the release, thus i don't get the highly recommended tag, it either looks like a new 4K scan or it doesn't, which is it, and if it doesn't then surely it's not as good as it can be and in 2013 we have higher expectations due to so many other classic films looking great on blu ray, looking good isn't hard these days, looking pristine great is. Yes i edited the post, many times, i always do.

It gets confusing all these posts. My problem with anyone posting anything critical about this or any transfer is if they haven't actually seen it. But I guess I may have actually been responding to whoever said teal and orange.

 

[haineshisway]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about! Have you ever seen a two-color Technicolor film?

They're all teal and orange! What are you smoking?

RAH

I was smoking some teal and orange cigarillos - if Edie Adams were alive, she'd be doing the commercials for them.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes and that's the part i actually understand and is also why i don't agree with the 4.5/5 score.

You admitted you haven't seen the BD yet, but you don't agree with RAH's score????