2004 Off-Season NBA Trades and Draft (1 Viewer)

[Casey Trowbridg]

Carlo explained the Kobe stuff a lot better than I. I don't know what could convince me that if he hasn't learned those aspects of the game from a guy like Phil than really who can you learn them from. Yeah, if you kept Shaq and traded Kobe for role players I think you're better off, because in the NBA there is only 1 Shaq and I'd rather him be on my side than not.

Oh, but Carlo I'd have to disagree with your assessment of Al Davis. Seeing as how not but 18 months ago his team was in the Superbowl, and he was named executive of the year in the NFL, I'd hardly call that senial.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Hey, I was just thinking that we need an off-season thread too.


BTW, HURRAY, it looks like the horrible "all of our team for T-Mac" deal is now dead. I had read online rumors 2 weeks ago that said Orlando wanted to move him to the West rather than trade within the East.


My next terrible fear would be that Indy would then try to get Francis because the number one complaint was lack of a creating scorer at PG and PG defensive speed. T-Mac was just the general "scorer" and was on the market, but a guy like Francis comes closer I think to what Joe 6 wants to see on the Indy roster.

I've heard nothing yet to suggest it happening anyway, I'm just saying.

You know watching game 6 the other day just reinforced in my mind the idea that Indy needs to do absolutely nothing, except maybe upgrade at the bench PG area, if possible. Fred Jones is ready to go at the 2, maybe Harrington wants out to start so you pack he and Bender for another solid 6 man type or a guy like Dampier if possible.


I think Shaq and Kobe end up right back in LA. Remember that when Bird dumped Isiah O'Neal was also pissed, but that all smoothed over once they worked together and started winning together.

Shaq basically can't be moved and Kobe won't be moved. End of story it appears.



Also, don't look for much from tonight's draft. The word is that the Bobcats want to take players that they can basically turn around and dump, either by letting the original team match and keep or by getting restricted FAs that could then be let go I guess.

Looks like they basically want their draft pick and a couple of strong FAs to build with.


Orlando getting the Francis/Mobley combo is good, though why bother drafting a big man down there if they wouldn't pass to Yao? As a pair these two are the best in the game playing together as a single unit. Too bad they don't generally like for the other 3 guys to barge into the party.


I think Phil's playing days in NYC could bring him back there. Doesn't sound like there is bad blood between Isiah and Phil at all, at least on a professional level like this. Most people think this might happen, but not until next season after a break similar to the post-Bulls version.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Hey, I was just thinking that we need an off-season thread too.


BTW, HURRAY, it looks like the horrible "all of our team for T-Mac" deal is now dead. I had read online rumors 2 weeks ago that said Orlando wanted to move him to the West rather than trade within the East.


My next terrible fear would be that Indy would then try to get Francis because the number one complaint was lack of a creating scorer at PG and PG defensive speed. T-Mac was just the general "scorer" and was on the market, but a guy like Francis comes closer I think to what Joe 6 wants to see on the Indy roster.

I've heard nothing yet to suggest it happening anyway, I'm just saying.

You know watching game 6 the other day just reinforced in my mind the idea that Indy needs to do absolutely nothing, except maybe upgrade at the bench PG area, if possible. Fred Jones is ready to go at the 2, maybe Harrington wants out to start so you pack he and Bender for another solid 6 man type or a guy like Dampier if possible.


I think Shaq and Kobe end up right back in LA. Remember that when Bird dumped Isiah O'Neal was also pissed, but that all smoothed over once they worked together and started winning together.

Shaq basically can't be moved and Kobe won't be moved. End of story it appears.



Also, don't look for much from tonight's draft. The word is that the Bobcats want to take players that they can basically turn around and dump, either by letting the original team match and keep or by getting restricted FAs that could then be let go I guess.

Looks like they basically want their draft pick and a couple of strong FAs to build with.


Orlando getting the Francis/Mobley combo is good, though why bother drafting a big man down there if they wouldn't pass to Yao? As a pair these two are the best in the game playing together as a single unit. Too bad they don't generally like for the other 3 guys to barge into the party.


I think Phil's playing days in NYC could bring him back there. Doesn't sound like there is bad blood between Isiah and Phil at all, at least on a professional level like this. Most people think this might happen, but not until next season after a break similar to the post-Bulls version.

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Here are some rumors that I read on CNN/SI a few minutes ago:

I'll start with the Pacers because they are really all I care about


The Indiana Pacers are "desperately" trying to trade Ron Artest.
-- New York Daily News (6/22)


Yesterday, Indiana talked about sending Al Harrington to Cleveland for the Cavaliers No. 10 pick in the draft. The Pacers would use the pick to select Oregon swingman Luke Jackson, a favorite of Larry Bird, president of basketball operations.
-- New York Times (6/22)


The only thing standing in between Rudy Tomjanovich and the Lakers head-coaching job is an interview with Kobe Bryant.
-- New York Post (6/22)


The Charlotte Bobcats have talked to the Knicks about acquiring Antoine Walker, who was left unprotected by the Dallas Mavericks for tonight's expansion draft, and sending him to New York.
-- New York Daily News (6/22)


Mavericks GM Mark Cuban says he'll make a move for Shaquille O'Neal.
-- The Dallas Morning News (6/22)


The Shaquille O'Neal-Kobe Bryant Los Angeles feud may continue as the Clippers are the NBA's "most ardent suitor" for O'Neal, who has requested to be traded from the Lakers.
-- New York Post (6/22)


Patriots quarterback Tom Brady denied reports that he is engaged to Bridget Moynahan.
-- Chicago Sun-Times (6/22)

(Note: Add this to my list of reasons why Tom Brady could be the world's luckiest man, yes...I am a Colts fan, too!)

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Here are some rumors that I read on CNN/SI a few minutes ago:

I'll start with the Pacers because they are really all I care about


The Indiana Pacers are "desperately" trying to trade Ron Artest.
-- New York Daily News (6/22)


Yesterday, Indiana talked about sending Al Harrington to Cleveland for the Cavaliers No. 10 pick in the draft. The Pacers would use the pick to select Oregon swingman Luke Jackson, a favorite of Larry Bird, president of basketball operations.
-- New York Times (6/22)


The only thing standing in between Rudy Tomjanovich and the Lakers head-coaching job is an interview with Kobe Bryant.
-- New York Post (6/22)


The Charlotte Bobcats have talked to the Knicks about acquiring Antoine Walker, who was left unprotected by the Dallas Mavericks for tonight's expansion draft, and sending him to New York.
-- New York Daily News (6/22)


Mavericks GM Mark Cuban says he'll make a move for Shaquille O'Neal.
-- The Dallas Morning News (6/22)


The Shaquille O'Neal-Kobe Bryant Los Angeles feud may continue as the Clippers are the NBA's "most ardent suitor" for O'Neal, who has requested to be traded from the Lakers.
-- New York Post (6/22)


Patriots quarterback Tom Brady denied reports that he is engaged to Bridget Moynahan.
-- Chicago Sun-Times (6/22)

(Note: Add this to my list of reasons why Tom Brady could be the world's luckiest man, yes...I am a Colts fan, too!)

 

[Robert Anthony]

Oh yeah, same here: Not only did he put together a team that was a major AFC threat for like, 4 years straight, and a Super Bowl contestant, but after a 4 and 12 season, went out and had one of THE best offseasons any team in the league had.

The Prince of Darkness hasn't gone senile quite yet. Although his fashion sense doesn't back that up

As far as the "proven winners" Franchise and Mobley--Francis, I'll give you. Mobley? WAY overrated. He reminds me of Sleepy Floyd or Danny Ainge. Very one sided, and not always on when he's playing that one side, anyway. And he seems to bring out the worst in Francis. Splitting those two up would be the best move a GM would make. At least for whoever got Francis.

oh, and I'd like to put forth another controversial opinion: Steve Franchise should have won the Slam Dunk contest that Vince Carter took. Yes, Carter had one of the sickest dunks of all time--but he wasted that in the first round. Everything else he did was so-so. Honestly.

Francis, on the other hand, wowed EVERY SINGLE DUNK, and he was getting WAY higher and jumping from way farther out. there was a self-alley-oop he threw where he took off from the 2nd block and went completely parallel to the ground, like he was laying on a board up there, BEFORE he caught the ball, and THEN brought it down to his feet before throwing it down.

The guy is like, 6-1.

He should have taken that contest.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Oh yeah, same here: Not only did he put together a team that was a major AFC threat for like, 4 years straight, and a Super Bowl contestant, but after a 4 and 12 season, went out and had one of THE best offseasons any team in the league had.

The Prince of Darkness hasn't gone senile quite yet. Although his fashion sense doesn't back that up

As far as the "proven winners" Franchise and Mobley--Francis, I'll give you. Mobley? WAY overrated. He reminds me of Sleepy Floyd or Danny Ainge. Very one sided, and not always on when he's playing that one side, anyway. And he seems to bring out the worst in Francis. Splitting those two up would be the best move a GM would make. At least for whoever got Francis.

oh, and I'd like to put forth another controversial opinion: Steve Franchise should have won the Slam Dunk contest that Vince Carter took. Yes, Carter had one of the sickest dunks of all time--but he wasted that in the first round. Everything else he did was so-so. Honestly.

Francis, on the other hand, wowed EVERY SINGLE DUNK, and he was getting WAY higher and jumping from way farther out. there was a self-alley-oop he threw where he took off from the 2nd block and went completely parallel to the ground, like he was laying on a board up there, BEFORE he caught the ball, and THEN brought it down to his feet before throwing it down.

The guy is like, 6-1.

He should have taken that contest.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I can't see Shaq agreeing to go to that sad-sack organization.

Do these New York papers know anything about the NBA?

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I can't see Shaq agreeing to go to that sad-sack organization.

Do these New York papers know anything about the NBA?

 

[Robert Anthony]

If it's Pete Vescey's writing?

..


...nope.

 

[Robert Anthony]

If it's Pete Vescey's writing?

..


...nope.

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Good article by ESPN on the Pacers:

Harrington, Artest were possible offerings

Associated Press
INDIANAPOLIS -- Larry Bird believes the Indiana Pacers made a better offer for Tracy McGrady than the package of players the Houston Rockets have proposed sending to the Orlando Magic.

"My personal opinion is they might have got a better deal from us," Bird said Tuesday when asked about the reported deal that would send McGrady to the Rockets for a package including Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley.

"Take nothing away from the guys that have been traded. I like our guys. I know our guys are talented and hard workers, but when you go after Tracy McGrady, you have to give up something, and the price was just too high for us."

The Rockets were said to be the leading candidate to acquire McGrady from Orlando, with officials from other teams saying Houston was offering a package including Francis, Mobley, Kelvin Cato and/or Bostjan Nachbar for McGrady, Juwan Howard, Andrew DeClercq and Tyronn Lue. Because of league salary cap rules relating to Francis' salary, such a deal could not be finalized until mid-July.

Both Bird and team CEO Donnie Walsh spoke with Magic general manager John Weisbrod late last week about McGrady, but did not hear back from him after their initial talks.

"No question, when you have a player like Tracy McGrady out there, you try to pursue it and see what it was going to take to try to get involved in it," Bird said. "Obviously they didn't like the players we put out there and really, we didn't get down to details. We just asked them what they would like and they threw some names out there and the price was really too high for us."

Reports have swirled for more than a day now that the Rockets and Magic are putting the finishing touches on their deal, but the Magic said they did not expect to make an announcement Tuesday night.

While Bird would not say which players the Magic asked for, he did say the Pacers have received a number of inquiries regarding forwards Al Harrington and Ron Artest.

Harrington, one of the top sixth men in the league last year, told Bird at their season-ending meeting that he would like to be traded if he wasn't going to start for the Pacers next season.

"There's a lot of interest in Al," Bird said. "We're not really shopping Al. I wish Al was happy here and everybody else was happy, but sometimes a change of scenery will do both teams some good."

Artest, the defensive player of the year, didn't help his case when he was fined for skipping his season-ending meeting with Bird.

The Pacers were also mentioned in rumors surrounding the Lakers' Shaquille O'Neal, but Bird wasn't optimistic that O'Neal or McGrady would land in Indiana.

When asked if they were out of the running for an available "superstar," Bird said, "At this point with Shaq and Tracy, yeah. We hear that Tracy's probably going to Houston, but you never know, something might happen. If he's out there, we're going to go after him."

Whether the Pacers get back in the race for McGrady or not, Bird made it clear that they will continue to be a player in the trade market, partly because of their considerable youth and depth.

"We have a lot of guys with a lot of talent," Bird said. "We can put packages together to go after these guys."

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Good article by ESPN on the Pacers:

Harrington, Artest were possible offerings

Associated Press
INDIANAPOLIS -- Larry Bird believes the Indiana Pacers made a better offer for Tracy McGrady than the package of players the Houston Rockets have proposed sending to the Orlando Magic.

"My personal opinion is they might have got a better deal from us," Bird said Tuesday when asked about the reported deal that would send McGrady to the Rockets for a package including Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley.

"Take nothing away from the guys that have been traded. I like our guys. I know our guys are talented and hard workers, but when you go after Tracy McGrady, you have to give up something, and the price was just too high for us."

The Rockets were said to be the leading candidate to acquire McGrady from Orlando, with officials from other teams saying Houston was offering a package including Francis, Mobley, Kelvin Cato and/or Bostjan Nachbar for McGrady, Juwan Howard, Andrew DeClercq and Tyronn Lue. Because of league salary cap rules relating to Francis' salary, such a deal could not be finalized until mid-July.

Both Bird and team CEO Donnie Walsh spoke with Magic general manager John Weisbrod late last week about McGrady, but did not hear back from him after their initial talks.

"No question, when you have a player like Tracy McGrady out there, you try to pursue it and see what it was going to take to try to get involved in it," Bird said. "Obviously they didn't like the players we put out there and really, we didn't get down to details. We just asked them what they would like and they threw some names out there and the price was really too high for us."

Reports have swirled for more than a day now that the Rockets and Magic are putting the finishing touches on their deal, but the Magic said they did not expect to make an announcement Tuesday night.

While Bird would not say which players the Magic asked for, he did say the Pacers have received a number of inquiries regarding forwards Al Harrington and Ron Artest.

Harrington, one of the top sixth men in the league last year, told Bird at their season-ending meeting that he would like to be traded if he wasn't going to start for the Pacers next season.

"There's a lot of interest in Al," Bird said. "We're not really shopping Al. I wish Al was happy here and everybody else was happy, but sometimes a change of scenery will do both teams some good."

Artest, the defensive player of the year, didn't help his case when he was fined for skipping his season-ending meeting with Bird.

The Pacers were also mentioned in rumors surrounding the Lakers' Shaquille O'Neal, but Bird wasn't optimistic that O'Neal or McGrady would land in Indiana.

When asked if they were out of the running for an available "superstar," Bird said, "At this point with Shaq and Tracy, yeah. We hear that Tracy's probably going to Houston, but you never know, something might happen. If he's out there, we're going to go after him."

Whether the Pacers get back in the race for McGrady or not, Bird made it clear that they will continue to be a player in the trade market, partly because of their considerable youth and depth.

"We have a lot of guys with a lot of talent," Bird said. "We can put packages together to go after these guys."

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Charlotte took a bunch of restricted free agents tonight which under CBA rules means those players are now unrestricted free agents and can sign with anyone. They didn't make a lot of noise with this draft and really I couldn't blame them for that.

As for Phil Jackson...why not prove to the world how good of a coach you really are? Go to the Hawks....of course after this last year with the Lakers, coaching a team with no talent like the Hawks might be easier and preferable.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Charlotte took a bunch of restricted free agents tonight which under CBA rules means those players are now unrestricted free agents and can sign with anyone. They didn't make a lot of noise with this draft and really I couldn't blame them for that.

As for Phil Jackson...why not prove to the world how good of a coach you really are? Go to the Hawks....of course after this last year with the Lakers, coaching a team with no talent like the Hawks might be easier and preferable.

 

[Carlo_M]

On the Al Davis side note, just wanted to say I think Gruden had a lot to do with that as well (and eventually got his ring). While the Raiders did resurface, it did so when he kind of took a back seat again, especially when Gruden proved himself as a coach. When Davis started to resurface again to bask in his team's glory...well we all saw what happened last year. And no, I won't use the Gannon injury excuse because you just can't go with a nearly 40 year old QB and not adequately back him up.

But hey, I've loved the Raiders since my family moved to the states in '78, so I've seen highs and lows. I do think that current success notwithstanding, Al's really on the decline. The Sapp move helps though...

 

[Carlo_M]

On the Al Davis side note, just wanted to say I think Gruden had a lot to do with that as well (and eventually got his ring). While the Raiders did resurface, it did so when he kind of took a back seat again, especially when Gruden proved himself as a coach. When Davis started to resurface again to bask in his team's glory...well we all saw what happened last year. And no, I won't use the Gannon injury excuse because you just can't go with a nearly 40 year old QB and not adequately back him up.

But hey, I've loved the Raiders since my family moved to the states in '78, so I've seen highs and lows. I do think that current success notwithstanding, Al's really on the decline. The Sapp move helps though...

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Regarding those Indiana trying to trade Artest rumors, here is a quote from David Aldridge on ESPN.com:


The AP article that Michael quotes only speculates that the Pacers may have offered Artest -- Bird never says who they offered in that article.

In other news, Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton turned down offers to play on the U.S. Olympic team. Carmelo Anthony is going instead of Hamilton. Maybe he'll get to play against Darko if Milicic's broken hand heals in time.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Regarding those Indiana trying to trade Artest rumors, here is a quote from David Aldridge on ESPN.com:


The AP article that Michael quotes only speculates that the Pacers may have offered Artest -- Bird never says who they offered in that article.

In other news, Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton turned down offers to play on the U.S. Olympic team. Carmelo Anthony is going instead of Hamilton. Maybe he'll get to play against Darko if Milicic's broken hand heals in time.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Dumars was interviewed on WXYT Sports Radio this morning. His major points regarding resigning both Wallace and Okur were:

• Detroit is currently not under the salary cap enough to offer restricted free agent Okur any more than the $5 million mid-level exception.
• The only way they can get under the cap enough to offer Okur more is by renouncing their "Larry Bird" rights to Rasheed, and he will not do this (Dumars' words, not mine).
• He believes that Okur's fair market value is right around $5 million (big surprise, since that is the maximum Detroit can offer him).
• Any team currently under the cap can offer Okur more than $5 million if they want to lure him away from Detroit, since the Pistons cannot match anything over this amount.

So, this means that if there is a team willing to overpay Okur a little bit, he's gone unless Rasheed leaves first. This is essentially what happened with Gilbert Arenas last season.