2004 Off-Season NBA Trades and Draft (1 Viewer)

[Jan H]

The only way the Knicks are involved is if another team is in the mix. The Knicks have absolutely nothing the Lakers need or want.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It seems like the Knicks are involved with rumors of just about any available player. However, they are over the cap, so NY's options are limited unless they can get a team to take some of their bloated contracts off their hands. I think Isiah is just trying to get some air time by inserting himself into all these rumors.

The funniest Knicks rumor I heard was Phil Jackson taking over as coach. Considering the bad blood between Jackson's Bulls and Isiah from Thomas's playing days in Detroit, there is zero chance of this happening, just as there was zero chance of Isiah staying on in Indiana when Larry Bird came back.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It seems like the Knicks are involved with rumors of just about any available player. However, they are over the cap, so NY's options are limited unless they can get a team to take some of their bloated contracts off their hands. I think Isiah is just trying to get some air time by inserting himself into all these rumors.

The funniest Knicks rumor I heard was Phil Jackson taking over as coach. Considering the bad blood between Jackson's Bulls and Isiah from Thomas's playing days in Detroit, there is zero chance of this happening, just as there was zero chance of Isiah staying on in Indiana when Larry Bird came back.

 

[Andy Sheets]

Yeah, that was my thought when I saw that rumor. I guess if he held Vernon Maxwell together for as long as he did, maybe he could get Kobe to settle down

Not sure how I feel about the T-Mac to Houston rumors. It seems odd that the Rockets, after finally making the playoffs, would trade away such a huge part of their team that they would probably be going backwards for at least one season instead of building on their accomplishment. I know they were criticized for lacking consistent scoring, but that's a bit too much to deal just to get that - their defense and depth would almost totally disappear, I think.

Edit:

More news...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1825839

Looks like it's not certain but nonetheless very close to happening. Francis, Mobley, and Kelvin Cato for McGrady, Juwan Howard, Lue, and a throw-in. If the deal goes through, I'll wish the players luck but I can't stand Juwan Howard. Bad enough the Rockets have Maurice Taylor, now their getting this guy...blech!

 

[Andy Sheets]

Yeah, that was my thought when I saw that rumor. I guess if he held Vernon Maxwell together for as long as he did, maybe he could get Kobe to settle down

Not sure how I feel about the T-Mac to Houston rumors. It seems odd that the Rockets, after finally making the playoffs, would trade away such a huge part of their team that they would probably be going backwards for at least one season instead of building on their accomplishment. I know they were criticized for lacking consistent scoring, but that's a bit too much to deal just to get that - their defense and depth would almost totally disappear, I think.

Edit:

More news...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1825839

Looks like it's not certain but nonetheless very close to happening. Francis, Mobley, and Kelvin Cato for McGrady, Juwan Howard, Lue, and a throw-in. If the deal goes through, I'll wish the players luck but I can't stand Juwan Howard. Bad enough the Rockets have Maurice Taylor, now their getting this guy...blech!

 

[Seth_L]

Doesn't anyone listen to a thing that Joe Dumars says? He says and has said on more than one occasion that they can resign everyone on the team and stay under the cap.

 

[Seth_L]

Doesn't anyone listen to a thing that Joe Dumars says? He says and has said on more than one occasion that they can resign everyone on the team and stay under the cap.

 

[Justin Lane]

A similar trade involving Frances and Mobley for Iverson was rumored before the start of last season as well. Houston has not been happy with that backcourt for some time (though I am not sure Iverson would be an upgrade, he would have at least drawn more attention then either Mobley or Frances, freeing up Yao in the interior).

McGrady, Frances, and Mobley have all proven themselves to be able to put up good numbers, but none of them have proven themselves to be winners. If McGrady gets to play with Yao, he better start being part of a team putting up some wins and deep playoff runs as there will be no more excuses and he will be exposed as a fraud.

As for Shaq, I see him playing out this year in LA, then probably having to opt out and become a free agent after next year. His wishes of being paid at the same level are not going to happen though. Even as a free agent (or through a trade), no-one has 30 million under the cap to sink into one player, meaning he will have to stay with the Lakers if he wants to be paid.

The scenario I would hate to see would involve Shaq playing out this year as a Laker, opting out next year freeing up 30 million in cap space allowing the Lakers to sign another top flight free-agent, and then Shaq eventually coming to his wits and resigning with the Lakers, which they are allowed to do even if they are over the cap.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

A similar trade involving Frances and Mobley for Iverson was rumored before the start of last season as well. Houston has not been happy with that backcourt for some time (though I am not sure Iverson would be an upgrade, he would have at least drawn more attention then either Mobley or Frances, freeing up Yao in the interior).

McGrady, Frances, and Mobley have all proven themselves to be able to put up good numbers, but none of them have proven themselves to be winners. If McGrady gets to play with Yao, he better start being part of a team putting up some wins and deep playoff runs as there will be no more excuses and he will be exposed as a fraud.

As for Shaq, I see him playing out this year in LA, then probably having to opt out and become a free agent after next year. His wishes of being paid at the same level are not going to happen though. Even as a free agent (or through a trade), no-one has 30 million under the cap to sink into one player, meaning he will have to stay with the Lakers if he wants to be paid.

The scenario I would hate to see would involve Shaq playing out this year as a Laker, opting out next year freeing up 30 million in cap space allowing the Lakers to sign another top flight free-agent, and then Shaq eventually coming to his wits and resigning with the Lakers, which they are allowed to do even if they are over the cap.

J

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Only if everything works out perfectly. That means (1) Charlotte needs to take Elden Campbell or Corliss Williamson in today's expansion draft to free up cap space, (2) no other team throws $7-8 million and a promise of starting at Okur, and (3) Okur still wants to play for Larry Brown.

While Detroit can go over the cap to sign Wallace by invoking their "Larry Bird" rights, they cannot go over the cap to match an offer for restricted free agent Okur. And this does not even cover whether Rasheed wants to come back -- I do not believe anyone knows what he's really thinking.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Only if everything works out perfectly. That means (1) Charlotte needs to take Elden Campbell or Corliss Williamson in today's expansion draft to free up cap space, (2) no other team throws $7-8 million and a promise of starting at Okur, and (3) Okur still wants to play for Larry Brown.

While Detroit can go over the cap to sign Wallace by invoking their "Larry Bird" rights, they cannot go over the cap to match an offer for restricted free agent Okur. And this does not even cover whether Rasheed wants to come back -- I do not believe anyone knows what he's really thinking.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Brandon M, you want to know why my opinion of Kobe has changed?

How's about passing up open team mates to take stupid shots. Pouting on the court during games....playing for himself and not his team...I saw enough of him during this season to realize that he plays a type of game that I'm not liking and that he's not a team guy. He's all about Kobe not the team he plays for.

I didn't fall for what Rosan said, I already thought that Kobe was a selfish brat long before yesterday, I just put that there as a statement someone made. Hell, I'm seeing this Kobe has a bad attitude stuff pop up more and more, so that tells me I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

If I were Kobe, I'd be sending Malone and Peyton thank you cards for the rest of my life. Thanking them for convincing Shaq not to beat his ass, which I'm sure Shaq would've been fully capable of doing.

My opinion on Bryant is this, he's one of the top players in the game, and when the game is on the line he's the first guy I'd take to try and make the last shot. However, that doesn't change the fact that he's worried more about Kobe and how good Kobe looks than anything else.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Brandon M, you want to know why my opinion of Kobe has changed?

How's about passing up open team mates to take stupid shots. Pouting on the court during games....playing for himself and not his team...I saw enough of him during this season to realize that he plays a type of game that I'm not liking and that he's not a team guy. He's all about Kobe not the team he plays for.

I didn't fall for what Rosan said, I already thought that Kobe was a selfish brat long before yesterday, I just put that there as a statement someone made. Hell, I'm seeing this Kobe has a bad attitude stuff pop up more and more, so that tells me I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

If I were Kobe, I'd be sending Malone and Peyton thank you cards for the rest of my life. Thanking them for convincing Shaq not to beat his ass, which I'm sure Shaq would've been fully capable of doing.

My opinion on Bryant is this, he's one of the top players in the game, and when the game is on the line he's the first guy I'd take to try and make the last shot. However, that doesn't change the fact that he's worried more about Kobe and how good Kobe looks than anything else.

 

[Carlo_M]

As a Laker fan, I just hope that Dr. Buss isn't pulling an Al Davis. Promising career as an owner that spiralled into senility towards the end.

Looking at this as a whole the last few years:

1. He brings Phil in to tame the ShaKobe situation.
2. A year later, he chooses Phil over Jerry West...the gosh-darned LOGO of the NBA, and not only one of the greatest players, but one of the greatest execs and talent judges in NBA history.
3. Four years later, chooses Kobe over Phil, one of the best coaches in NBA history, owner of 10 NBA championship rings, nine as a coach, 3 in the last 5 years, and a finals participant in one of the 2 years they didn't win. Kobe meanwhile has consistently garnered the accolade of "Best One-on-One Player in the League"--but you don't have to dig very far to see it's a backhanded compliment as well. Oh, and he's got a pending criminal trial too.

I know people can look at NBA career lifespan and say Buss is doing the right thing. Yes, O'Neal ain't getting any younger and will be dominant for 2-4 years max. We all know that when big men fade, they fade fast.

Kobe, if he stays out of prison (and can you imagine those pickup games in the yard if he doesn't! ) will still be in his peak for 3-5 years and then probably still be very effective until his mid thirties (that's 10 years total). If he learns how to cope with an aging body like MJ did, he could add 2-3 years to that.

But in watching Kobe play for his entire career as a Laker, and I catch nearly every regular season game as well as playoffs, I can say this: Kobe has matured. But ***not as much as you'd expect from a player of his caliber***. Eight years now and he still flashes selfishness on a regular basis. This is not like MJ when pre-Pippen & Co, when MJ ***had*** to be the offense. Kobe does this with the best center in the league by his side, and even when they had a young and spry Fisher, an effective Rick Fox, a sharpshooting Glen Rice, etc. on the floor. His great assist games, getting his teammates involved, are pointed out because they are the exception and not the rule.

Sure, O'Neal demands the ball. But that's to set up the triangle offense. In eight years of watching them together, I honestly can't remember a game where I thought Shaq "shot us out of the game" by forcing bad shots. I can think of a lot of times I can say that for Kobe, and quite a few within the last year. O'Neal has learned to wait for the defense to set up and commit. If they collapse on him, that ball goes out to the open shooter more times than not. If they play him one-up, why shouldn't he have carte-blanche to shoot? That's exactly the matchup they want. But no, more often than not, the ball is now in Kobe's hands, yo-yo'ing at the perimiter, trying to do his best MJ fall-away shot despite the double and triple teams that teams are now employing.

Eight years and Kobe still hasn't learned that aspect of the game. He is a selfish player. Maybe Rudy T. will be the right fit and finally teach Kobe team ball. But I doubt it. If Buss will dump a 9-time winning coach for his Golden Sun, what kind of weight is a 2-time winner like Rudy T going to have?

Please note: this is not a knee-jerk reaction to the finals that just happened. I've had this love/hate relationship w/ Kobe from the start. I've seen his highs and lows, but he'll take you through both consistently. At least O'Neal is consistent in his on-court performance (not in terms of numbers but how he plays and understands the needs of a particular game).

I've not felt O'Neal lost a game for us by being selfish. He's lost games because he didn't shoot well, but they were still "high percentage shots" that just didn't fall. Kobe has on numerous occasions shot us out of games and taken the team out of its rhythm (or failed to establish one) with his style of play.

The problem is Kobe's got three rings, and I'm sure he thinks it's because of him and not The Big Fella that he's got the hardware.

If the Lakers do indeed become his team, if Shaq skips town, and if Kobe continues to refuse to learn how to play team ball, he will learn that #34 was the key to those rings.

 

[Carlo_M]

As a Laker fan, I just hope that Dr. Buss isn't pulling an Al Davis. Promising career as an owner that spiralled into senility towards the end.

Looking at this as a whole the last few years:

1. He brings Phil in to tame the ShaKobe situation.
2. A year later, he chooses Phil over Jerry West...the gosh-darned LOGO of the NBA, and not only one of the greatest players, but one of the greatest execs and talent judges in NBA history.
3. Four years later, chooses Kobe over Phil, one of the best coaches in NBA history, owner of 10 NBA championship rings, nine as a coach, 3 in the last 5 years, and a finals participant in one of the 2 years they didn't win. Kobe meanwhile has consistently garnered the accolade of "Best One-on-One Player in the League"--but you don't have to dig very far to see it's a backhanded compliment as well. Oh, and he's got a pending criminal trial too.

I know people can look at NBA career lifespan and say Buss is doing the right thing. Yes, O'Neal ain't getting any younger and will be dominant for 2-4 years max. We all know that when big men fade, they fade fast.

Kobe, if he stays out of prison (and can you imagine those pickup games in the yard if he doesn't! ) will still be in his peak for 3-5 years and then probably still be very effective until his mid thirties (that's 10 years total). If he learns how to cope with an aging body like MJ did, he could add 2-3 years to that.

But in watching Kobe play for his entire career as a Laker, and I catch nearly every regular season game as well as playoffs, I can say this: Kobe has matured. But ***not as much as you'd expect from a player of his caliber***. Eight years now and he still flashes selfishness on a regular basis. This is not like MJ when pre-Pippen & Co, when MJ ***had*** to be the offense. Kobe does this with the best center in the league by his side, and even when they had a young and spry Fisher, an effective Rick Fox, a sharpshooting Glen Rice, etc. on the floor. His great assist games, getting his teammates involved, are pointed out because they are the exception and not the rule.

Sure, O'Neal demands the ball. But that's to set up the triangle offense. In eight years of watching them together, I honestly can't remember a game where I thought Shaq "shot us out of the game" by forcing bad shots. I can think of a lot of times I can say that for Kobe, and quite a few within the last year. O'Neal has learned to wait for the defense to set up and commit. If they collapse on him, that ball goes out to the open shooter more times than not. If they play him one-up, why shouldn't he have carte-blanche to shoot? That's exactly the matchup they want. But no, more often than not, the ball is now in Kobe's hands, yo-yo'ing at the perimiter, trying to do his best MJ fall-away shot despite the double and triple teams that teams are now employing.

Eight years and Kobe still hasn't learned that aspect of the game. He is a selfish player. Maybe Rudy T. will be the right fit and finally teach Kobe team ball. But I doubt it. If Buss will dump a 9-time winning coach for his Golden Sun, what kind of weight is a 2-time winner like Rudy T going to have?

Please note: this is not a knee-jerk reaction to the finals that just happened. I've had this love/hate relationship w/ Kobe from the start. I've seen his highs and lows, but he'll take you through both consistently. At least O'Neal is consistent in his on-court performance (not in terms of numbers but how he plays and understands the needs of a particular game).

I've not felt O'Neal lost a game for us by being selfish. He's lost games because he didn't shoot well, but they were still "high percentage shots" that just didn't fall. Kobe has on numerous occasions shot us out of games and taken the team out of its rhythm (or failed to establish one) with his style of play.

The problem is Kobe's got three rings, and I'm sure he thinks it's because of him and not The Big Fella that he's got the hardware.

If the Lakers do indeed become his team, if Shaq skips town, and if Kobe continues to refuse to learn how to play team ball, he will learn that #34 was the key to those rings.

 

[Jan H]

I agree with much of what you said about Kobe, Carlo, but I believe that Kobe is as competitive and hungry for titles as anyone. He felt like he had to do everything during the Finals, and with the exception of a single good game from Shaq, he was right. I think if you have to choose between the two, Shaq should be the one to go. Here's why:

1. Commitment to staying in shape - It ain't there.
2. He refuses to show on the pick and roll - A key reason why the Lakers haven't won the title 5 years in a row.
3. Free throws. While they haven't cost the Lakers anything, per se, they're getting worse.
4. He is more and more frequently becoming injury-prone.
5. He is owed 60 million dollars over the next two years. If the Lakers can get 4 quality players for that amount they need to do it. It makes far better business and long-term sense.


Look, I love Shaq-daddy, and I appreciate everything he's done for the Lakers. But the team is bigger than anybody, and everyone is expendable. Hell, I'd trade both Kobe and Shaq for an entire roster of good players. It's all about the Purple and Gold

 

[Jan H]

I agree with much of what you said about Kobe, Carlo, but I believe that Kobe is as competitive and hungry for titles as anyone. He felt like he had to do everything during the Finals, and with the exception of a single good game from Shaq, he was right. I think if you have to choose between the two, Shaq should be the one to go. Here's why:

1. Commitment to staying in shape - It ain't there.
2. He refuses to show on the pick and roll - A key reason why the Lakers haven't won the title 5 years in a row.
3. Free throws. While they haven't cost the Lakers anything, per se, they're getting worse.
4. He is more and more frequently becoming injury-prone.
5. He is owed 60 million dollars over the next two years. If the Lakers can get 4 quality players for that amount they need to do it. It makes far better business and long-term sense.


Look, I love Shaq-daddy, and I appreciate everything he's done for the Lakers. But the team is bigger than anybody, and everyone is expendable. Hell, I'd trade both Kobe and Shaq for an entire roster of good players. It's all about the Purple and Gold

 

[Carlo_M]

I agree with your Shaq critiques except for #2 - I don't think it was the gameplan to have him go too far from the paint. The way Phil's defense was crafted was to have him be the last line of defense in the paint. The Lakers consistently haven't had a good defender the last two years who could fight through the picks. First 3 rings they had a healthy and young Fisher. 2 surgically repaired, what was it, knees or ankles? later and he just can't cut it any more.
This part I don't agree with 100%. The role players showed in the playoffs that someone could step up at some point in time, it was just a matter of finding them and giving them the chance. In the playoffs, Kobe abandoned all of that too quickly. If he dumped off a pass and the person missed, that was like a free pass for Kobe to say "See, no one can make shots, I have to take em all myself."

Now it would have been fine if he MJ'd it and made a majority of the shots he took, but he didn't. And by ballhogging, he never gave anyone else a chance to get in a rhythm.

I agree that Shaq isn't the long-term answer. But I wholeheartedly believe that if they kept Shaq happy and got a trade for Kobe w/ talented players, we'd have a good shot at a couple more rings in the 3-4 good years Shaq has left. Committing long-term to Kobe, if he learns team ball is a better investment.

But in 8 years, five under the winningest coach and a reknowned teacher and massager-of-egos, he hasn't learned it. What makes us think even if the best-case scenario, Rudy T, happened, that Bryant would turn that corner?

Unlike MJ, who sowed his oats early to no avail (no rings) and had to learn to work within a team to win rings, success came to Kobe early and often and now he has no incentive to listen to anybody because he's already got the hardware.

 

[Carlo_M]

I agree with your Shaq critiques except for #2 - I don't think it was the gameplan to have him go too far from the paint. The way Phil's defense was crafted was to have him be the last line of defense in the paint. The Lakers consistently haven't had a good defender the last two years who could fight through the picks. First 3 rings they had a healthy and young Fisher. 2 surgically repaired, what was it, knees or ankles? later and he just can't cut it any more.
This part I don't agree with 100%. The role players showed in the playoffs that someone could step up at some point in time, it was just a matter of finding them and giving them the chance. In the playoffs, Kobe abandoned all of that too quickly. If he dumped off a pass and the person missed, that was like a free pass for Kobe to say "See, no one can make shots, I have to take em all myself."

Now it would have been fine if he MJ'd it and made a majority of the shots he took, but he didn't. And by ballhogging, he never gave anyone else a chance to get in a rhythm.

I agree that Shaq isn't the long-term answer. But I wholeheartedly believe that if they kept Shaq happy and got a trade for Kobe w/ talented players, we'd have a good shot at a couple more rings in the 3-4 good years Shaq has left. Committing long-term to Kobe, if he learns team ball is a better investment.

But in 8 years, five under the winningest coach and a reknowned teacher and massager-of-egos, he hasn't learned it. What makes us think even if the best-case scenario, Rudy T, happened, that Bryant would turn that corner?

Unlike MJ, who sowed his oats early to no avail (no rings) and had to learn to work within a team to win rings, success came to Kobe early and often and now he has no incentive to listen to anybody because he's already got the hardware.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Carlo explained the Kobe stuff a lot better than I. I don't know what could convince me that if he hasn't learned those aspects of the game from a guy like Phil than really who can you learn them from. Yeah, if you kept Shaq and traded Kobe for role players I think you're better off, because in the NBA there is only 1 Shaq and I'd rather him be on my side than not.

Oh, but Carlo I'd have to disagree with your assessment of Al Davis. Seeing as how not but 18 months ago his team was in the Superbowl, and he was named executive of the year in the NFL, I'd hardly call that senial.