Would Killing DVD Improve Blu-ray and 4K UHD’s Fortunes? (2 Viewers)

[jcroy]

My .02: Studios are of two minds about streaming and PVOD:

1. They like it BECAUSE it gives them greater control over their productions than physical media. When you buy a PVOD title or stream on a streaming service, they still retain control of the media. Buying a PVOD title is a licence they can rescind at any time they see fit, since you don't physically "own" anything; likewise, they can place finite timelines on the availability of media on streaming services.
2. They hate it because they are rapidly losing a revenue stream in physical media. This is why we are seeing studios licence their titles to AVOD, because, much like when network TV dominated, they're getting a chunk of that sweet, sweet ad revenue.

It's a textbook example of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

My guess is the folks who subscribe to viewpoint 1, are in the movie studio's legal department.

In the case of viewpoint 2, my guess is it's the executive running the home video department at a movie studio who subscribes to it. The declining sales figures will affect their year-end-bonuses and power in the movie studio's corporate structure. (ie. Executives in poorly performing departments can be fired and replaced).

 

[Indy Guy]

This is not just a physical media problem. Theaters are bleeding money also as the audience has been encouraged to stream. The streaming services are losing millions too because their costs and free access to expensive content don't add up to profitability.
Here is a thought that might help all 3.
During theatrical runs, every ticket stub sold would provide eligibility to buy a disc version or on-demand digital copy a month (or ?) before "simultaneous" physical and transactional digital release dates.
After both release windows have exhausted potential sales (60 days or?), the titles could move to streaming where there really is "no direct revenue".
The incentive to see films theatrically would increase with the knowledge you can get a disc or paid download much sooner by doing so. Disc and Download sales would increase with the knowledge you will have to wait months to get titles free on streaming services. Streaming companies would avoid massive content costs burdening their fixed monthly fees, being reframed as end of the line venues similar to how antenna TV always functioned. This is a way to keep their subscription costs in check without resorting to advertising or unaffordable subscriptions which promote on and off trial subscribers. A win win for all 3 platforms.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

This is not just a physical media problem. Theaters are bleeding money also as the audience has been encouraged to stream. The streaming services are losing millions too because their costs and free access to expensive content don't add up to profitability.
Here is a thought that might help all 3.
During theatrical runs, every ticket stub sold would provide eligibility to buy a disc version or on-demand digital copy a month (or ?) before "simultaneous" physical and transactional digital release dates.
After both release windows have exhausted potential sales (60 days or?), the titles could move to streaming where there really is "no direct revenue".
The incentive to see films theatrically would increase with the knowledge you can get a disc or paid download much sooner by doing so. Disc and Download sales would increase with the knowledge you will have to wait months to get titles free on streaming services. Streaming companies would avoid massive content costs burdening their fixed monthly fees, being reframed as end of the line venues similar to how antenna TV always functioned. This is a way to keep their subscription costs in check without resorting to advertising or unaffordable subscriptions which promote on and off trial subscribers. A win win for all 3 platforms.

AFAIK, most of the high content costs for subscription streaming are coming from production of (primarily) exclusive/original "TV" shows/series, not quite so much theatrical-type movies (outside of a very small number of those). Those simply aren't intended/made for theaters at all, so your idea just wouldn't work for those.

They could try using your idea for feature-length, theatrical movies, but that's probably not gonna address the lion's share of that particular problem me thinks.

Of course, trying doesn't mean it'll actually work even for those cases anyway... particularly since that could risk/draw some (possibly very significant) backlash from consumers, who have probably been (effectively) trained to expect quite the opposite now...

_Man_

 

[albert_m2]

My local Best Buys pretty much carry Blu and 4K... but Walmart which had a fairly decent blu selection and and small 4K collection has reverted back to mostly DVD... and I'm not counting the tv collection sets that are only on DVD anyway.

Target is slightly better, but not much... however some of my local Targets have cut section down to not much more than new releases.

Barnes and Noble used to have more blu rays as well... that said, they carry Criterions and Arrow titles in blu or 4K, but a lot of the regular catalog titles are DVD (unless recently released).

 

[Indy Guy]

AFAIK, most of the high content costs for subscription streaming are coming from production of (primarily) exclusive/original "TV" shows/series, not quite so much theatrical-type movies (outside of a very small number of those). Those simply aren't intended/made for theaters at all, so your idea just wouldn't work for those.

They could try using your idea for feature-length, theatrical movies, but that's probably not gonna address the lion's share of that particular problem me thinks.

Of course, trying doesn't mean it'll actually work even for those cases anyway... particularly since that could risk/draw some (possibly very significant) backlash from consumers, who have probably been (effectively) trained to expect quite the opposite now...

_Man_

Disney + has 'trained" its subscribers to wait for expensive feature films to appear on their service. Pixar, Disney and Lucasfilm properties do far less at the box office (and on disc) now that the public has been conditioned to wait for D+ to showcase theatricals just weeks after initial release dates.
Programing created for especially for streaming services is similar to programming created for network TV. The production costs need to be a balance between advertising and subscription revenue. So far in their zeal to add subscribers, streaming services have not made that balance profitable, and have severely damaged the theatrical box office, physical/digital sales and network television as well.

 

[Guardyan]

Disney + has 'trained" its subscribers to wait for expensive feature films to appear on their service. Pixar, Disney and Lucasfilm properties do far less at the box office (and on disc) now that the public has been conditioned to wait for D+ to showcase theatricals just weeks after initial release dates.
Programing created for especially for streaming services is similar to programming created for network TV. The production costs need to be a balance between advertising and subscription revenue. So far in their zeal to add subscribers, streaming services have not made that balance profitable, and have severely damaged the theatrical box office, physical/digital sales and network television as well.

In part you're describing my relationship with Disney+. I don't pay a dime for it (it's a credit card perk) and whenever I feel that a new release is gonna be "lukewarm," I just wait for it to drop on D+. Why bother going to the movies for something that is not that exciting? But, on the other hand, I think that were D+ not an option (like back in the day when it didn't exist yet), I'd just never bother watching such movies. So in a way D+ gets me to pay more attention to their features but in reality it didn't keep me from actually going to the movies.

 

[Malcolm R]

The price of hardware is also likely a factor. I was in Walmart tonight and checked out what was available for players. They had a good selection of players, but you can buy a DVD player for $35-50, a Blu-Ray player for $60-80, but if you want a full 4K player, those are $160-180.

When you consider 4K discs are also quite a bit more expensive than DVD, that's a pretty big financial investment for many average viewers.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

That’s where I say “oh, please” as the first VCRs were over $1000 and the first Blu-ray players were nearly that much. Any of the sub-$100 players are going to die early anyways, I picked up a couple $35 DVD players just for fun when they started showing up, used them only occasionally and now none of them work at all and I had to throw them out.

 

[jcroy]

That’s where I say “oh, please” as the first VCRs were over $1000 and the first Blu-ray players were nearly that much. Any of the sub-$100 players are going to die early anyways, I picked up a couple $35 DVD players just for fun when they started showing up, used them only occasionally and now none of them work at all and I had to throw them out.

All this means is that you think very differently than Joe Sixpack.

That $1000 can put to better use, such as buying over a dozen beer kegs.

Oh, Please ! ! !

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Disney + has 'trained" its subscribers to wait for expensive feature films to appear on their service. Pixar, Disney and Lucasfilm properties do far less at the box office (and on disc) now that the public has been conditioned to wait for D+ to showcase theatricals just weeks after initial release dates.
Programing created for especially for streaming services is similar to programming created for network TV. The production costs need to be a balance between advertising and subscription revenue. So far in their zeal to add subscribers, streaming services have not made that balance profitable, and have severely damaged the theatrical box office, physical/digital sales and network television as well.

The point is *only* the featured-length theatrical films would matter in your suggestion, and the good ones probably haven't been losing quite that much at the box office. It's probably the very mediocre to bad Disney/Pixar/Lucasfilm blockbuster types that the masses no longer feel a need to see at theaters that may be impacted quite that much -- and really, they should just make fewer of those clunkers anyway as that would matter far more than anything when in comes to such.

The made-for-streaming stuff won't matter one iota re: your suggestion, but they have definitely been very costly and almost certainly more costly than the likely modest diff that their box office take has been taking strictly due to the fasttracking done from theatrical to streaming (outside of the rare cases of simultaneous theatrical/streaming releases primarily during the height of the pandemic).

Yes, I too feel they should probably roll back the fasttracking at least somewhat, but that's likely not nearly enough to address the overall problem.

_Man_

 

[Indy Guy]

The point is *only* the featured-length theatrical films would matter in your suggestion, and the good ones probably haven't been losing quite that much at the box office. It's probably the very mediocre to bad Disney/Pixar/Lucasfilm blockbuster types that the masses no longer feel a need to see at theaters that may be impacted quite that much -- and really, they should just make fewer of those clunkers anyway as that would matter far more than anything when in comes to such.

The made-for-streaming stuff won't matter one iota re: your suggestion, but they have definitely been very costly and almost certainly more costly than the likely modest diff that their box office take has been taking strictly due to the fasttracking done from theatrical to streaming (outside of the rare cases of simultaneous theatrical/streaming releases primarily during the height of the pandemic).

Yes, I too feel they should probably roll back the fasttracking at least somewhat, but that's likely not nearly enough to address the overall problem.

_Man_

Using Indy 5 as an example of a high profile expensive film project, knowledge that it would soon be streaming definitely lowered its Box Office, as it did for Pixar's Elementals and Disney's Mermaid.
Streaming strategies have devastated the physical release tier even more than they have impacted theatrical runs.
In an earlier post I suggested theater ticket stubs could provide exclusive access to an early purchase window prior to general release dates for physical and digital theatrical titles. If physical and digital releases were day and date, few would buy digital only since first run discs also include digital codes. This would expose the studio driven initiative to have digital prevail over physical by giving digital an exclusive window aimed at depressing physical sales.
When the exclusive ticket stub window and then the regular release windows finally run out of gas...titles would show up on streaming, thus maximizing highest revenue potential for expensive theatrical titles.
Knowing the mentality of collectors, this would improve Box Office numbers and put a dent in the decline of physical media.
Within the current structure, the studios have orchestrated both the theatrical and physical media crisis by baiting the customers with a cheap option that’s turning out to be an unprofitable strategy.
Your point is absolutely valid. The cost of creating quality content directly for streaming has come with unbridled expense. Perhaps the recent flurry of blu ray Marvel/Lucas D+ announcements is an attempt to reduce what you flagged.
Disney+ is trying to rebalance high cost/low revenue realities with a "too little too late" strategy.
Unfortunately, the titles selected have passed their "must own" dates for the general public. On the other hand, something like "The Imagineering Story" by Leslie Iwerks is an example of a Disney + documentary series that might still have evergreen potential if released on a HD disc format.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Using Indy 5 as an example of a high profile expensive film project, knowledge that it would soon be streaming definitely lowered its Box Office, as it did for Pixar's Elementals and Disney's Mermaid.

Actually, you don't know that to be true. That's really just conjecture... even though I also tend to believe -- not know -- that likely did reduce the box office... and yet, no real idea by how much, ie. whether it's really that significant at all.

_Man_

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Actually, Pixar’s Elementals had an above-average box office hold and continued to play well in theaters past the point when other similarly timed releases faded away.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The idea of preordering a release with your movie ticket isn’t a new one. Studios tried that about a decade ago. The audience wasn’t interested and it was DOA.

For better or worse, the general public isn’t interested in owning the movies they watch. Movie collectors are. There are far more members of the general public than there are movie collectors.

There’s a reason that physical media purchases is a $2 billion a year industry, that digital purchases is a $2 billion a year industry, and that subscription streaming is a $30 billion a year industry. I don’t mean to come across as a Debbie Downer, I don’t mean to put down anyone’s preferences for how they want to spend their money or what they want to collect, but I cannot think of any realistic scenario that is going to compel the general public to purchase movies when they don’t have to and don’t want to. I cannot think of any realistic scenario in 2023 that is going to make the general public abandon the subscription model in favor of the ownership model. I cannot think of any realistic scenario in 2023 that is going to make discs gain in popularity after a decade of steep decline.

What Disney is doing now with their disc releases of Disney+ originals is something to keep an eye on. For three years people here and elsewhere have clamored for those on disc. They are now coming, loaded with bonus features, in premium article packaging, and are priced at a reasonable but not bargain bin price to reflect the cost of making discs in an environment where they are an enthusiast product rather than a commodity.

If they sell well within the limited enthusiast community of physical media collectors, Disney will do more. If they do not sell well, then Disney will know that all of the online chatter calling for disc releases is just noise that they should ignore, not a reasonable reflection of what people will actually buy.

It’s worth noting that several people on this forum who had been vocal about wanting to buy those discs when they didn’t exist have now said they won’t buy them because they’re priced higher than they want to pay. I hope that’s not a typical reaction among potential buyers because if it is that’s the end of those releases.

 

[TravisR]

Actually, Pixar’s Elementals had an above-average box office hold and continued to play well in theaters past the point when other similarly timed releases faded away.

It's probably because it had decent legs and because there weren't any more recent kids movies still playing but my local AMC actually got Elemental back this last weekend.