WANTED: punchier bass for music, more of what I have for movies (SVS) (1 Viewer)

[steve nn]

No not yet Sheldon. I was sort of hoping I would win the drawing. It's still three as subs sit.

I kind of goofed myself up. I now need two more cylinders. I had been thinking of adding a cheap little second system in the den and subsequently did so trying to help another member here on the Forum find a good buy on a HTiB. Fry's had a one day sale on the Kenwood 506 for $199 so I picked it up. It will do what I need it to (and behind closed doors) except in the bass dept. I was thinking a secondhand 20-39 PCI would work out just fine in the den Know anyone who has one to sell? No I'm just kidding. I'll wait a few months or so and then beat my wife I mean ask my wife into letting me pick another up.

I think you adding the 2-ISD will really give you the impressive bass your looking for. You also might find yourself even under calibrating at times. You will have plenty of punch and headroom thats for sure. Your in for a treat. worry free

 

[MikeLi]

Re: the rockets sub vs. SVS.... they are getting rave reviews so far but you would need several of the model 10's. The 12's are not out yet and they are promising an ultra with dual drivers some time later this year. When that boy comes out I am going to get one just to put it to the test with my SVS PB2+. I am kind of tired of dual subs and glad to be back to one! I am sure we will see a surprise when Mark gets the big one going overthere because when they do something they do it right there is no doubt about it... It's just I could not wait and I think there are many others in my place. You could't take my Rockets away I love them so much!

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Sheldon,

Reading your posts, you definitely need to equalize your sub with the Behringer 1124 before you spend any more money. Once you get smooth response with a proper house curve you’ll find that your sub will sound great for both movies and music.

Most rooms have at least one peaking frequency, and that is what dominates the way the lows sound. Typically it is low enough so that it drowns out the upper bass frequencies that you feel are lacking now. That’s what’s causing your problem, not the need for another sub. A second sub, co-located with the other, or a different sub will sound very much the same as what you have now, because of what the room is doing to response.

After EQing, the only reason to upgrade is if equalizing causes you to run out of headroom. Or if you really do want to be able to hit 115dB.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Sheldon C]

Wayne,

what about the Art 351 that SVS sells? Will that do it for me? I ask because it looks like the behringer is complicated as hell and I think I'd be a little intimidated trying to figure it out. :b

 

[John Tami]

Hmmm...not an expert but I'd think adding a PC-Ultra and placing both Cylinders in the back corners would add plenty of punch, and look nice too! Maybe I just like the looks of the Ultra Driver too much!

 

[MikeNg]

I second Wayne's sound suggestion.

Getting the ISD may not solve the problem. If the problem is due to an imbalance in frequencies, you might still have that with the ISD and still be dissappointed.

I'm in the same boat as you, and HAVE an ISD! Just got a BFD but have not had a chance to re-calibrate my sub. I too suspect that the lack of 'punch' I feel is due to a low-end peak in the room. I'll let you know if the BFD does the trick for me.

Mike

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Sheldon,

The ART will certainly help, but it will not accomplish the surgical precision that a parametric is capable of.

The BFD does have a learning curve, but it’s worth the effort. Check out Sonnie Parker’s BFD Comprehensive Set-Up Guide. There must be something to it; before Sonny put it up we used to have “Need help with my BFD” threads around here on a weekly basis. Now, we hardly ever get them.

The picture below is a “before and after” of Sonny’s sub:





Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Sheldon C]

Thanks for the link Wayne, I'll have to look into buying one here soon.

Well, I made the order yesterday for a pb2isd. Like I said I like what I am getting for movies, I just want more. I'll post here after I get it all set up and play around with it for awhile, then if I still don't like how music sounds I'll by the behringer.

thanks for all the help guys, I can't wait to play with my new toy.

 

[Mike SJ]

...

 

[Sheldon C]

Hey Mike,

yep, I'm in Shawnee now, but close enough. I WILL need someone to come over to do the heavy lifting when the bad boy gets here...

 

[MikeNg]

Just to let you know Sheldon, the BFD made a HUGE difference for my setup. After some calibration the sub sounds incredible. The ISD is a keeper. If I were you I'd still look into getting some sort of EQ to tame that room.

Cheers

MN

 

[Mike SJ]

..

 

[Sheldon C]

Update

The sub arrived two days ago and I've been spending what free time I have playing with it. Contrary to what everyone says, I actually expected it to be a little bigger than it is. I also didn't have a hard time moving it around to different places in the room. Maybe it didn't seem so big because the basement room is pretty much mine and I don't have to worry about my wife not approving of what the sub looks like.

At first I put it in the corner where my pci was and calibrated it the same as well. Next I watched a few scenes from Lord of the Rings, specifically Balin's tomb.

Here is what I measured uncorrected, c weighted, slow, on the radio shack meter from 12 feet away (roughly) in a room that is 18x23x8. The measurments were when the cave troll stomps into the tomb area.

pci = 107-108 db
pb2-isd = 113-115 db

This sounds like my problems would be solved for movies, because all I wanted is more of what I had (or so I thought). Unfortunately this did not do it for me. It felt like a similar impact with the new sub, the only real difference I noticed is that after going through to scene a few times me ears hurt, which they never have before with the old sub.

Hmm, maybe I'll try putting the sub behind my couch like I have seen in Craig's pictures and take the baseplate off like he suggested.

Whoa! What a difference that made. Now there was the slam I was looking for, and now there was actually too much of it. I think an entire movie might make me sick! So I turned the sub down and matched it with the other speakers instead of going 5 to 7 db hot like before. What I ended up with is way more slam than I had before which makes it seem like the bass is way louder, but in reality I was peaking around 110 db instead of 115 so my ears didn't take so much punishment.

The only thing is I wish I didn't know that the sub is behind me because it makes me think that I can tell where it is even though I am sure that if I didn't know I would think it was coming from the mains. (does this make sense?)

I had tried the behind the couch thing with the pci, but I never liked the results. In order to get the slam I wanted (which doesn't match what I am getting now anyway with the pb2) I had to calibrate the sub so high that I could REALLY tell where the bass was coming from.

On to music, which is actually more important to me. I am equally happy with the results of the new sub behind me as well. I can really feel the music now, which is all I really wanted. I have gone through a lot of cd's in the last couple days and I have set the sub anywhere from flat with the mains to + 8db depending on what I'm listening to. It sounds fantastic right now, but I admit that I feel a little guilty when I tweak up the bass (does anyone else do this? It seems that everyone says they keep their sub flat always for music).

Here is the wierd thing that makes no sense. I claimed that I wanted punchy bass so you would assume that I would prefer to listen to music with all ports open. I played around with the plugs and settings just to see, expecting that to be the case, and I found just the opposite. I got a more tactile feel at lower sub volumes when I used to plugs and set the sub to 16 hz. I know that makes no sense, so I tried it over and over again with different music and kept getting the same result. Anyone know why that might be?

Finally, I think I prefer the sub laying on it's side (bass plate off) so that the side with the ports can be hidden a little bit instead of being at the top.

Also, I plan to experiment with using my old pci along with the new sub just to see what happens. My problem is that I'm a constant tweaker. I think I get things set the way I like them, and then curiousity takes over and I try something else.

That's why I'm a little afraid to by a BFD. Do you guys think I still need one if I leave the sub right behind me? How much is the room affecting the bass if the sub is that close to me?

 

[Sheldon C]

shameless bump:b

 

[Mike SJ]

"Also, I plan to experiment with using my old pci along with the new sub just to see what happens. My problem is that I'm a constant tweaker"

stay off the crack! glad you like the upgrade.


have you got it all calibrated and such?
what is your music tastes, and how loud do you usually listen?

 

[Sheldon C]

I have it calibrated to anywhere between flat and +8 depending on the music that's playing.

I usually listen between 80 and 85 db with the occasional "crank" up to 90 to 95 db for not too long of time. Every once in awhile I'll go louder but I'm trying to limit that.

I listen to mostly metal - old Metallica, Dream Theater, Iced Earth, Tool, and more recently, After Forever, Opeth, Killswitch Engage, etc...

So basically I like some kick with my music and so far the new sub has not disappointed. Of course I am open to suggestions on how to improve the set up... Would a BFD give me the same "slam" that I'm feeling from across the room in the front corner? If so, I would prefer that for the placement of the sub.

 

[Mike SJ]

what wall treatments do you have. I keep reading that bass traps help with reflections alot.

hey if you ever need anothe SPL meter on hand, ive never seen/heard an SVS, if you ever need the help, lemme know.

Im a 2nd gen stereo junkie. so ive got an oscilator too.