Upgrading from Blu-ray to UHD: Where do you draw the line? (3 Viewers)

[mark brown]

I just joined this thread and may be repeating some of the discussion, but for me, once the studios took Atmos out of the equation for blu ray, I was forced to move up to UHD on many new (and old retread) titles!

 

[JoshZ]

I have both the 30th Anniversary Blu-ray and the UHD of the original Top Gun. The Atmos mix on the UHD is more dynamic, sounds better, and loses none of the LFE from the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD tracks on the Blu-ray. As Sam Posten would say, “Shit blows up good!”

Back to this for a second (as, yes, I still think it's relevant here). I watched Top Gun '86 in full last night. The Atmos track has a lot of fun directional effects with the sounds of jets and missiles and whatnot cutting through the room. It's a very aggressive and pretty satisfying track.

Judged on its own, I'd say that dynamics are "okay". Not extraordinary, but certainly better than some of Disney's soundtracks with zero bass. It did stand out to me that the jet afterburners lacked punch, as did the sonic booms when Maverick does his tower flybys.

I put in the old Blu-ray for a few minutes afterward, and the DTS-MA 6.1 track is decidedly bassier. Those afterburners really rumble. Even the bass in the synth score goes a little lower.

The old Blu-ray looks like complete garbage, unfortunately. Horrible DNR and edge enhancement. Unwatchable, really.

 

[John Sparks]

That 4th paragraph sounds like an old DVD!

 

[JoshZ]

That 4th paragraph sounds like an old DVD!

The initial Blu-ray for Top Gun was sourced from an ancient, DVD-era master.

 

[D150]

If you have been redeeming your "digital copy" codes you will find that your 1080P copy is now being sourced from the new 4K scan. Giving you some of the benefits of the new transfers.

 

[John*Wells]

Ive actually upgraded based on the Movie itself (Top Gun, Star Wars, Star Trek, Beverly Hills Cop, Halloween to name a few) So for me, I would say things I particularly like or know I will rewatch. Its been good in some cases because I purchased the DVD Version when it Came out. Then, if it Came out in 4K UHD, it Came with the Blu Ray version as well. But you can definitely tell the Difference Between DVD and UHD. For Example, I have been re watching Star Trek TNG and Voayger. This week I pulled my Star Trek Fan collective Sets for the Klingons and Time Travel as well as the movies The DVD versions look old and grainy Compared to the Blu Ray or 4K UHD Movie Versions

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Just checked my DVD Profiler stats: 117 UHDs.

Per DVD Profiler, I am at 196, including a few I have on order. My disc purchases have slowed down considerably over the past year or two, though. Not sure how many are upgrades from BD, but I would guess the majority fit that description. Interestingly, I have purchased 227 4K digital copies (not including codes that came with discs), and 396 HDX digital copies.

 

[JoshZ]

If you have been redeeming your "digital copy" codes you will find that your 1080P copy is now being sourced from the new 4K scan. Giving you some of the benefits of the new transfers.

Note that this may vary by title and by which platform you watch on. For example, after I redeemed the digital codes for the Predator 4-Movie Collection, I found that Movies Anywhere streams Predator 2 using the new remaster for both 4K and 1080p, whereas Vudu continues to use the old DNR-heavy master from the Blu-ray for 1080p. Strangely, that's not the case for the original Predator, which has been updated on both services.

 

[Albert71292]

I bought a 4K player about a year ago, but have only purchased one 4K disc. May be my aging eyesight, but I wasn't impressed. The standard Blu-ray of the film looked much better to me than the 4K version, so I'm not going to bother "upgrading" any more films.

 

[Konstantinos]

but have only purchased one 4K disc. May be my aging eyesight, but I wasn't impressed. The standard Blu-ray of the film looked much better to me than the 4K version, so I'm not going to bother "upgrading" any more films.

I don't think you can judge only by one 4k disc.
Anyway, what was the title?

 

[Albert71292]

I don't think you can judge only by one 4k disc.
Anyway, what was the title?

Smokey and the Bandit

 

[JoshZ]

Smokey and the Bandit

If I'm recalling correctly, the Blu-ray for Smokey and the Bandit suffered from DNR and artificial sharpening, which the UHD undoes.

 

[John*Wells]

In my Case, I'm curious, Is it Silly to purchase all DVD Formats of a movie? For example? I bought Top Gun on DVD years ago. Recently, I bought the 4K UHD format it included a Blu Ray disc also. So I have it in DVD, Blu and 4KUHD. I also Purchased Top Gun Maverick in 4K UHD. And was considering buying the DVD and Blu Versions as well.

 

[Indy Guy]

For me it's not a question for new titles. Most new 4K's are released with BR's included, so that makes it easy.
Paramount has recently chosen to release 4K's with a finicky version of Dolby Vision processing that plays havoc with my projector, so having the BR included in the box is great. This is the case with Saturday Night Fever and Blue Hawaii.
As for deciding what gets upgraded... Older disc where I spend time during viewing mulling over color problems, clarity or sound issues...are logical candidate for an upgrade...for example, 4K's of Sound of Music and Camelot would be first day 4K purchases because of off- color timing and compressed audio tracks on the existing Blu Rays.

 

[YANG]

In my Case, I'm curious, Is it Silly to purchase all DVD Formats of a movie? For example? I bought Top Gun on DVD years ago. Recently, I bought the 4K UHD format it included a Blu Ray disc also. So I have it in DVD, Blu and 4KUHD. I also Purchased Top Gun Maverick in 4K UHD. And was considering buying the DVD and Blu Versions as well.

since you had made the choice to go for the finest... there's no point to get the cheapest DVD format unless, your finest acquisition would likely be poor handled if you loan out or often touched by juniors or other clueless folks.
in my case, i'm slowly building up my UHDBD collection where now, it's just 3% of my old DVD collection which are rotting off slowly.

For me it's not a question for new titles. Most new 4K's are released with BR's included, so that makes it easy.
Paramount has recently chosen to release 4K's with a finicky version of Dolby Vision processing that plays havoc with my projector, so having the BR included in the box is great......

FHDBDs bundled with UHDBDs, aka dual packs, i would often regard them as "Transitional Packs". the same applies to FHDBDs bundled with DVDs.
here in Asia, more and more titles are released in it's specific formats, less "Transitional Packs". the same seems to be happening in UK as well...

IMO, "Transitional Packs" are design to tackle interests from those who're still sticking with "old format"... one of them is me, can't jump straight into UHD or FHD as my DVD is more than 250 titles to be replaced.

 

[John Sparks]

It's still price for me. Just bought 3 for $10 each. I had all 3 on SD, but never got around to upgrade.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I really need to be interested in the movie and not everything needs to have a 4K disc as far as I am concerned. I have no problem buying some movies on blu-ray and I agree the format still looks good. But I am also currently only watching on a small 55" display and not a large projection screen. I also do not have the massive blu-ray collection that other have so there are plenty of titles I do not own on blu-ray still. But still I will eventually get to the point I will not have room for anymore discs and need to figure out what I will do at that time. But for me it boils down to the content but if the transfer is bad I am not buying it. If there is mastering issues or any kind of issue with the disc I am not buying it. But there is basically only two formats I buy, blu-ray and 4K blu-ray. For the most part I don't buy anything on DVD anymore but there may be something at some point where the source makes something on DVD make sense but it will be something that is not a favorite. And something that is maybe a tv show or a low budget movie I can get really cheap. Can not remember the last time I actually purchased anything on DVD.

 

[Mike Boone]

I view my movies 3 metres from a 55-inch Panasonic OLED. At this distance I don’t see any difference in resolution between 2K and 4K discs. As for HDR, sometimes it looks good, at other times it sometimes causes eye-strain. I bought my 4K player 2 years ago and no longer bother to buy the more expensive 4K discs. My “demonstration quality” discs are all 2K, not 4K! Chacun à son gout.

At a 3 meter distance (that = 118.11" on this old timer's side of the pond) from a 55" UHD TV, you should NOT be able to see ANY DIFFERENCE between 2K and 4K resolution, unless you're lucky enough to have vision that's far, far better than what most people have. Testing has shown that with 1080p resolution, or the 1080 pixel vertical resolution by 1920 pixel horizontal resolution that regular Blu-ray has, people having 20/20 vision, or with vision raised to 20/20, via eyeglasses or contact lenses (only 1 in 6 folks have vision as good as 20/20 without the aid of lenses), as they view well produced Blu-rays that provide that format's full 1080p resolution capability, for those viewers with 20/20 vision to be able to see the tiniest details that 1080p BDs can display, the eyes of viewers had to be NO farther than 3.16 screen heights away from 16X9 aspect ratio HD or UHD TVs.

So OLDTIMER, let's see how the above research, which was done with test subjects having 20/20 vision, applies to your particular situation of watching 2K and 4K discs on a 55 inch OLED panel. Screen height for an UHD or a HD TV, is actually 49% of the TV's diagonal screen measurement, which is the measurement that's always used to define a TV's size, anyway. So OLDTIMER, with your 55" OLED, its 55" screen is just multiplied by .49, so your TV screen's height then = 26.95"

Then, multiply your 26.95" screen height by 3.16, and the result of 85.162" = just over 7 ft. 1 inch, that's the farthest distance the eyes of viewers with 20/20 vision, or folks with eyes corrected to 20/20, via lenses, can have their eyes from 55" screens & still see the finest detail 1080p yields.

And since OLDTIMER, you stated that you view your 55 inch OLED from a 3 meter distance to its screen, which equals a 118.11 inch viewing distance, or 1.89 inches UNDER 10 feet, UNLESS you happen to be fortunate enough to have vision that's FAR BETTER than 20/20, there is simply no way, at that far of a distance, that you'll see 4K providing ANY improvement over 2K, in the amount of detail that appears, or in overall picture clarity, since you'd need to be within about a 7 ft 1 inch viewing distance just to see the very finest details which well produced 1080p Blu-rays can present.

 

[KeithDA]

At a 3 meter distance (that = 118.11" on this old timer's side of the pond) from a 55" UHD TV, you should NOT be able to see ANY DIFFERENCE between 2K and 4K resolution,

All true, but 4K has Wider Colour Gamut and some form of HDR which IS visible.....

 

[Robert Harris]

All true, but 4K has Wider Colour Gamut and some form of HDR which IS visible.....

Unless I’ve missed it, I’ve been waiting for this to be mentioned.

When I review a 4k release, I generally don’t go there, unless there’s a problem based upon HDR, but there is obviously a difference - along with whether Dolby Atmos has been encoded ONLY to the 4k.

We’ll leave financial attributes out of this, although it obviously plays a role.

So…

From that oft-discussed “nominal” seating distance, that’s what you get - a different color gamut and Atmos or DTS:X.

Along with two other factors.

1. How old is the extant Blu-ray against which the new 4k is being compared, ie is it the same master which may have been massaged for 4k, or is it a totally new image harvest?

2. What are the technical attributes of the original image being ”replicated” on disc?

Is the original a film from the silent era, which never had more than 2k information?

Is it 3-strip, which never had more than 2k information?

Is it 1950s Eastman Color 5248, which probably tops out (as an OCN scan) at 2k or a bit more?

Is it a more modern negative that can contain 3 or 4k information?

Is it data, ie recorded to 1050i or 1080p, which isn’t 4k?

Or is it a more current data format, up to and inclusive of the latest and greatest 8k chips - films like Midsommar, where the image details pop off the screen, necessitating the largest viewing surface possible?

How one handles what they purchase, 2k or 4, may come down to future intent in the eye of the beholder. Will you be upgrading to projection or an 80+” panel in the future.