And they don't demonstrate they were shot to allow for both formats
For the first example, I could go either way, the additional content to the right is about as relevant as what would be chopped from the bottom. As far as the second shot goes I think what would be chopped from the bottom is much more relevant then what would be added along the sides. Obviously, decisions can't be made from just two stills, but if these were hand picked to show the value of going widescreen, I just don't it.Simon Massey said:I love how u call the bit at the top and bottom useless information isn't that what the bit to the left and right is too ?
Especially when it's convenient...Simon Massey said:I know how Super 35 works.I love how u call the bit at the top and bottom useless information isn't that what the bit to the left and right is too ?
smithbrad said:Obviously, decisions can't be made from just two stills...
No they aren't. I may have my preference for OAR but I'm under no illusions that I'm in the majority. I'd say the vast majority couldn't care less as long as their screens are filled or like yourself don't like the little black bars on their screen and the reason these releases are happening is purely financial, not because the owners of this material are somehow fulfilling the desire of filmmakers from a bygone era when they struggled to get by with a square frame and suddenly the owners of this material can finally give the filmmakers what they always wanted....HDvision said:Of course, new releases like Friends, X-Files, and others listed in this thread are beginning to slowly change that mindset.
HDvision said:I I'm an OAR advocate myself when it comes to films.
I have no problem with keeping the exact original framing but even if they do open up the 4x3 frame slightly, I'd imagine that there's only small amounts of info on the top and bottom that doesn't have an effect on the shots anyway (similar to the negligible difference between a movie being shown at 1.78 or 1.85). However, altering the frame from 4x3 to 16x9 is a big change to the original framing and, in many cases, not at all what was intended to be seen by the creative team.HDvision said:It's funny people aren't seeing any problem in series being mastered with additional, not intended to be seen top and bottom, but any extra left and right is a no no -- if in widescreen, but still acceptable if the presentation is 4/3 (and thus not a correct presentation of the original TV framing).
HDvision said:
I couldn't have said it any better myself, David.HDvision said:This is not "sightly". See post 19 in page 1. The first picture yellow square is how an exact framing of the original TV transmission should be scanned. All the image outside of this yellow square was not supposed to be seen, more or less depending on the old TV overscans.
When the whole negative is scanned, the perspective is shifted out, 4/3 or not 4/3, the headroom is off, just as it is off for any post 1953 film shot open matte and issued open matte instead of widescreen.
The widescreen cap below, respect the original filmed headroom intent.
Ok I'm with you on the description of the camera move, but you lost me on the "there's no need for the camera to move" Says who ? Do you know why the camera moved - do you actually know the intent of the filmmaker here. No you don't! Just because there is no actual need to move the camera to see something doesn't mean the filmmaker doesn't want to move it anyway for some reason you don't actually know. I'm only using this shot as an example as there probably may not have been any specific intent, but I can't say and neither can you.HDvision said:Steed is laying on the floor and wakes up, and the camera follows him, even thought there's plently of headroom up there so there's no need for the camera to move
What you don't seem to get is this IS your personal opinion and not fact that cannot be refuted. If a filmmaker comes out and says yes I shot for widescreen fine - lets judge each one on it's merits but stop assigning fact to what is you personal opinion. I'm fine with you wanting to enjoy shows like this in widescreen - your personal choice - but equally I don't see why you need to hide behind a justification that doesn't have merit.HDvision said:this shows the show was shot for the framing I demonstrated on page 1, thus, any 4/3, revealing all the headroom format is wrong. No amount of personal opinion can refute this.
Does that include the bit to the left and the right as well as the top and the bottom or just the bits that you decide are in fact not supposed to be seen?HDvision said:All the image outside of this yellow square was not supposed to be seen, more or less depending on the old TV overscans.
Tell that to David Lynch with his soon-to-be-released Twin Peaks boxset - a show from the early 90s no less!!HDvision said:LOL I think I showed before in this thread, that you can't apply movie showing rules to TV shows
No it really is your personal opinion, not fact. Just because you don't see errors left and right doesn't make it correct. Shot composition is not just about avoiding errors.HDvision said:It's not my personal opinion that left and right information is ok, it's facts: these informations were shown in theaters when those series got theatrical releases of 2 episodes put together, and the top and bottom cropped off, as in my caps. Plus you never, ever get anything wrong on the edges of the frames, always on the top and bottom. And all the credits frame perfectly for widescreen, for all those series.
So does this apply to more recent shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Friends were mistakes are clearly visible to the left and right of frame when released in widescreen ?? Given the gaffes and errors that occur to the left and right, (and I would bet there will be some in the X Files releases too) then the correct thing to do would be to compose for the action safe area of 4x3 yes ? You are trying to have it both ways depending on whether it's an old show or a newer one.HDvision said:I think it's wrong people accept them to be wrongly framed as long as the format is 4/3, (as are for example all the remastered Avengers), no matter what is within the frame, including wrong things like microphones or camera wheels, but debate it when you crop the up and down stuff and release perfectly framed shows on video. The previous presentation is wrong, whereas the second is respecting the intended action safe top and bottom.