TV shows and TV movies gone W I D E

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by HDvision, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    See I'm afraid you keep missing the point being made - you keep talking about how it doesn't "fit nicely" or it looks wrong - that is a statement of opinion not fact. I'm not even stating what the show should look like or what the "rule" should be - I'm stating that the intentions of the filmmakers is the only rule that matters REGARDLESS of how it looks!! Now I realise we can't always establish that given some shows are older or memories may be a bit hazy, but the least we can do is stop stating things as "fact" when they are not and take each case on its merits. If you have comments from people involved that state widescreen was intended fine, but throwing up screenshots saying look how good it looks and referring to limited cinema releases of some of these episodes as factual evidence is at best misleading and undoing the whole point of what OAR is about. The word "widescreen" is itself a word conjured up to help sell 16:9 OAR on TVs and educate the wider public on OAR in an easier to understand way, but unfortunately it is now having the opposite effect for TV releases and I'm afraid misleading comments like your own don' t help
     
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  2. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    And yes I completely understand why recent TV was shot the way it was, I disagree with you on what should be done about it. So if the techs didn't care about widescreen and the filmmakers clearly didn't seem that bothered about protecting for it ( and certainly wouldn't be shooting for it or they would surely have done another take) then 4x3 makes sense to me
     
  3. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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  4. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    Duel is an interesting case especially since it is early Spielberg. Anyone know the history of the framing ofThis one ?
     
  5. Everett Stallings

    Everett Stallings Supporting Actor

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  6. Everett Stallings

    Everett Stallings Supporting Actor

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    A color print cost about $400.00 more per print. Ticket prices were about 50 cents per adult.
     
  7. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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    This thread isn't about discussing changing the original aspect ratio of films (there's enough people in charge at major companies doing a mess of that already), it's about TV shows and TV movies. Same rules don't apply.
     
  8. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    Seems to me from what I have read that Duel should be 4:3 though I assume also there should be two cuts a 4:3 TV version and a 16:9 theatrical version. In any event, Im surprised there isn't a 4:3 version as I think the way Spielberg composed the shots originally makes the truck look far more threatening when in 4:3 IMO.
     
  9. Vic Pardo

    Vic Pardo Screenwriter

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    I posted this in the Aspect Ratio Documentation/Blu-ray thread and it was suggested that I put it here, so here are some questions I have about TV shows released theatrically. If these questions were answered on any of the previous 17 pages, I'm sorry. If not, help me out here. Thanks:
    Lots of TV shows were released theatrically in movie form, most notably, several episodes of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." Were they cropped? Were they filmed with theatrical release in mind? A couple of early episodes which were one-hour long on TV were released in feature-length theatrical versions around 1966, so they must have had extra footage ready. Were they filmed with that idea in mind? What's the proper OAR in these cases? When I saw these films in theaters, I wasn't yet knowledgeable about aspect ratio at the time so I didn't notice. (My earliest memory of noticing cropping of Academy ratio in theatrical screenings was when a compilation of Three Stooges shorts got released in the early 1970s. And then ANIMAL CRACKERS in 1974.)
    Thanks.
     
  10. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    That's certainly a hotly debated topic in this thread but I doubt there's any definitive documentation either way. Personally, I think that nearly all TV shows until about the early 2000's would have been composed for the 4x3 frame because everyone involved with the production would have known that 4x3 was the primary (and maybe the only) way that the show would ever be seen.
     
  11. Harry-N

    Harry-N Cinematographer

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    I can't say for sure, but I've read that some TV pilots were filmed with the idea of theatrical releases overseas to help offset costs associated with those pilots. I would think that at least SOME consideration might have been given to the aspect ratio during those filmings.

    Here's a quote from THE TIME TUNNEL: A HISTORY OF THE TELEVISION PROGRAM by Martin Grams, Jr., regarding the pilot and the now-missing Dennis Hopper scenes:
    As a test, I've played the pilot cropped to 1.78:1 on my TV and it doesn't look too bad. The worst examples from the cropping are a few tops-of-heads that don't show:

    00_Cropped.jpg

    ...but most of the time the composition looks quite acceptable.

    Harry
     
  12. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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    That Time Tunnel transfer is probably zoomboxed.

    There's no way, apart from rare examples, that TV shows would be composed for 4/3 only. 4/3 for films was gone since 1953.

    Network news, regular talk shows yes, of course, were 4/3. But they were not films. Or mini-films as all these shows were.
     
  13. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    Disagree, in fact the opposite - there is no way TV shows in general would be composed for anything other than 4/3. 4/3 for TV shows was still around by 2000.

    You can't compose for two ratios IMO - you can compose for one ratio and protect for the other which is a big difference.
     
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  14. Harry-N

    Harry-N Cinematographer

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    I said it was when I mentioned, "I've played the pilot cropped to 1.78:1 on my TV ..." To my knowledge it's never been released in 16x9 anywhere, but using the zoom function on my TV, I get that image.
     
  15. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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    No harm intended in my comment. The top of the head cut off is probably the slight zoomboxing :)
     
  16. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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    More X-Files HDTV to DVD comparisons from user Chip75

    1x79 'Pilot' DVD to HDTV Comparisons
    [​IMG]


    2x02 'The Host 'DVD to HDTV Comparisons


    [​IMG]


    2x03 'Blood' DVD to HDTV Comparisons

    [​IMG]


    2x04 'Sleepless' DVD to HDTV Comparisons

    [​IMG]
     
  17. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

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    And more, more, more!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Hollywoodaholic

    Hollywoodaholic Edge of Glory?

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    Let the controversy begin! The Wire is going W I D E for a Blu-ray release next summer.

    Here's the entire sordid tale from creator David Simon, who signs off on the HBO re-master at 16x9 HD.

    http://davidsimon.com/the-wire-in-hd/

    "At the last, I’m satisfied what while this new version of The Wire is not, in some specific ways, the film we first made, it has sufficient merit to exist as an alternate version. There are scenes that clearly improve in HD and in the widescreen format. But, there are things that are not improved." - David Simon

    That's always been my take about shows being released in alternate formats: As long as the purists can have their original aspect ratio version, there's nothing wrong with appealing to new fans (or offering an alternate version to long-time fans) with a wide format version. Bring on The X-Files!
     
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  19. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I was just about to post the same link. I'd prefer The Wire stuck to the original framing but since they're not cropping the picture and Simon is OK, involved (to some degree) & acknowledged problems/compromises with going to 16x9 with the show, who am I to argue?
     
  20. Simon Massey

    Simon Massey Cinematographer
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    "If you compose a shot for a wider 16:9 screen, then you are, by definition, failing to optimize the composition of the 4:3 image. Choose to serve one construct and at times you must impair the other."We all focus on different aspects of what Simon said, but I will say that his involvement in this process is the one positive thing. That said if the 4x3 version is not being made available, then this is hardly an "alternative."
     
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