tired of the cosmetic revolution (1 Viewer)

[Julian Reville]

Oh, there!

 

[Leila Dougan]

The problem it seems, Ryan, is that your hatred seems to be pretty much only directed at certain procedures. But really, most surgical procedures are no more shocking or dramatic as any number of other methods of improving beauty. You assume that everyone draws the line the same place you do.

To the girl that you are treating with braces. . .why are you so repulsed at her desire for straight teeth and nicely trimmed hair, when at the same time you're telling her she needs to improve by dieting and exercising. Why are the first two more bothersome to you than the last two?

Because if you turned it around, someone else would be equally repulsed. "Boy, all she does is workout at the gym. If only she got a haircut once in a while!"

Most of us truly desire to look the best we can. To some of us, that means buying the best-fitting clothes, keeping our hair colored and trimmed, getting manicures, waxing our excess hair, and wearing padded bras. Is THAT crossing the line? Or does it only cross the line when she starts talking about surgical procedures?

Is it okay to wear padded bras but not to get implants? Is it okay to wax your excess hair but not to get laser hair removal?

Most of the things you speak of are simply more permanent methods of achieving things that the women have already been achieving. Most guys I know do not find hairy armpits and legs to be attractive. Most guys I know prefer their women to wear a little makeup and keep their hair cut nicely. Most guys I know like their women to wear stylish clothes and not frumpy potato sacks. And most guys I know prefer their somen to take good care of their bodies by working out and staying physically fit

Most of the women I know also don't do all these things for their men, but for themselves, because it makes them feel better. So at what point should a women stop trying to better herself?

The answer to that, I'm afraid, is a very personal one. Your answer is not the same as mine.

 

[Chu Gai]

Hope you're talking about Dennis Rodman there, Leila!

 

[Ryan Tsang]

She's a nice girl and I respect her. She's a colleague of mine so I feel I can be totally honest with her, rather than being PC or polite. And she doesn't get offended. We get along very well personally and professionally. Hair trim/makeup/straightening ONE tooth adds so little to the overall effect. Seriously, you could not tell between her "nice days" and her "ugly days." It's like me asking you if my pecs are bigger cuz I've worked them out for the past 2weeks. If she lost 25lbs, then I'd say "WOW! You look good!!" I just want to tell her what I think will make the biggest difference to her appearance, rather than piddling around with minor things. I don't think I'm special enough to be alone with this opinion in our circle.

Everybody here knows speakers make the biggest difference to a system. For a budget system, would you encourage someone here on this board to upgrade their next $1000 on a transport or the speakers? Same thing (almost). Would it be wrong or unethical to buy a Theta transport? God, no! But if the guys comes back still looking for that special something, don't you wish you had directed him in a (generally accepted) better direction?


Make big changes. That's what I'm all for.

 

[Ricardo C]

Isn't plastic surgery "big"?

Just admit you're applying a very arbitrary and random value system and let's be done with it

 

[Ryan Tsang]

Not big enough. Watch some more tv. The ducklings are still ducklings. Over and out.

 

[Pamela]

So you want to be accepted for who you are, but you have the right to tell a friend how you think she can improve her appearance?!?!?

I'm sure the lipoed, tucked, nipped, surgically enhanced women really don't give a rat's ass what you think of them, either.

While you claim to that women are fine the way they are, you seem quick to point out your perceived flaws in them. You are incredibly judgmental about a person's appearances. And a tad condescending, too.

 

[Ricardo C]

Watch less tv. Realize your judgement is yours alone. Realize it carries no weight whatsoever due to its arbitrary nature and lack of logical reasoning behind it. Over and out.

 

[Ryan Tsang]

You're absolutely right. I have no voice. Who cares what one guy says!? I think the saying goes something like.....If one person say it, it's an opinion. Two people say it, it's a fact. I didn't think I was alone thinking "enhanced" people are actually NOTICEABLY more attractive, because I don't think the majority of the cases are. I'm trying to encourage people not to do it, cuz A) it doesn't work and B) there are more effective ways to improve a person. I'm just too naive, I guess. The easy, quick way (buying it) is the American way.

It's difficult to ignore tv when Oprah, Ellen, Dr. Phil, and other makeover shows are on heavy rotation at work.

 

[LanieParker]

I think you turned left when you should have turned right, Ryan.

Going from one extreme, like telling woman that they shouldn't change their bodies and the way they look, because it doesn't do anything overall and they are fine the way they are, to telling one colleague that she needs to lose weight and stop fiddling with her crooked teeth is just ridiculous.

This is the kind of mentality that pisses me off. As a woman I am completely offended by you. It's men like you that make woman feel that they are not up to standard. YOu may want people to think you like woman for how they are or what they look like, but in truth, you are no better than the millions of men (and woman) that make others feel like crap about their looks. Telling your friend that she should work on her weight instead of fixing things like her teeth (which may be something she really wants to fix) is horrible.

Please post a picture of yourself. Let us critique you and tell you how we really see you. Let us point out your flaws and the things we see that aren't perfect.

UGH!

 

[Yousaf]

Lanie:

Although I don't necessarily agree with Ryan's views, I should point out that his opinions might not have changed. A slightly crooked tooth and long hair are both natural, whereas being overweight is largely determined by environment and therefore not natural. He can want a healthy woman without needed rail-thin with perfect teeth and a boob job.

 

[Ryan Tsang]

Welcome back to the first post! People are unique and ideally, should be proud of everything. There is no standard that needs to be met. I have skinny little legs. I don't care when my sis in law points that out. I don't cry. When I get a big-honkin' zit, I don't care when co-workers mention it. I'm 28 with tons of gray hair, I don't color it. I'm 5'11 and up until three years ago, I was 135lbs. I've heard tons of jokes about my weight, but I didn't run and hide. Suck it up! If I had big ears or nose or a bad haircut, I'd admit that too. Be proud of who you are that's all it comes down to. Whatever you are, acknowledge it. If you can't hack it when someone (not insultingly) point out a "flaw" out of concern or constructive criticism, then you need to grow a backbone, not run out and buy one.

 

[Chu Gai]

It ain't easy being beautiful

 

[Jason Kirkpatri]

Would it be fair to say that all Ryan is really implying is that in this crazy world, people are seemingly more apt to buy the body they perceive to be a societal ideal than to accept or work with what they have?

I think he's just overwhelmed by the media's attention on personal improvement's via surgeries, etc.

And he does have a point, to a degree. Fifty years ago, we wouldn't see nearly as much of this cosmetic revolution as we do now (as far as buying the body is concerned, not the whole self-image concept).

But that should be okay because it's just his opinion.

(admin note - post amended, no need to bring up personal attacks again).

 

[Jason Kirkpatri]

Right about the personal attacks - hadn't noticed that the previous response to mine that I was referring back to was edited.

 

[Jack Briggs]

And here I am, just cruising the boards, checking up on what I've missed, and I see this. Guys, calm down.

 

[Ricardo C]

Opinions can be argued, especially ones presented in such an antagonistic manner. And opinions like "you can't turn into a swan, duckling" should be argued.

 

[Ryan Tsang]

My definition of "duckling into swan" is a person whose appearance has no effect whatsoever on me turning into the same person with looks that I would catch myself staring at.
In my case, it would be from a woman who I do not find attractive into someone who I would approach and flirt with.
Until I see enough of that type of success, my opinion stands: there are more effective ways to improve a person. If and when such transformations become possible, I would look at it in a different light.

I guess if one's expectations are reasonable, then each has a right to their own. I just hate to see people search in vain for some mystical ideal that our media and culture has created. My sis-in-law-to-be declares she wants a body like Gwen Stefani, and specifically with ribs and hip bone sticking out a bit. I believe such women think most men prefer such a body. In fact, I strongly believe that statistically most men would prefer the "average" body type. Average to them is fat, unfortunately. It bothers me that many women look toward such images as targets and goals. And don't argue it's for health reasons cuz the US CDC just said slightly overweight people are less likely to die. I know, I know...one study. For every one study, there's another to conflict it. But this isn't some average person's master's thesis.


BTW, if anybody still cares.....at lunch today, another coworker brought up the issue of breast implants. The girl that I was referring to in my posts said before I even opened my mouth was..."You know what my problem is.....I need to lose some weight." You see, she knows it, I know it, everybody would agree with it. I am not antagonistic or misogynistic for pointing her in that direction.

 

[Ryan Tsang]

very fair. I would add to that: the "purchases" that they do make, don't really give them the bang-for-the-buck. In my eyes, those people have not become the head turners that they MAY HAVE expected they could be. If I'm right, (that is, more people share my view) shouldn't the people know that, so they could pursue other avenues of self-improvement that are perhaps more effective, permanent, safer, cheaper, and ultimately more rewarding to the soul?

Is this true? Very high, if not No. 1, on the list of graduation (high school I assume) gifts are breast implants. Can you look me in the eyes and honestly say we as a society are moving forward?

 

[Patrick Sun]

If you ever watch Dr. 90210, the PS's do ratchet patient expectations down during the screening process so they can improve their chances that their patients get the results that they were expecting. Just because you want a procedure done, it doesn't mean it's easy to get a good PS to do the job for you.

People have to take care of themselves because no one else is going to do it for them, so all this talk about "society" doesn't do people who aren't happy with parts of their bodies any good.

Of course, I've more than scratched my head while watching some of the cases that are shown on Dr. 90210 as to why people do what they do, but it's their choice, and they have to live with their choices. Interesting times, indeed.