tired of the cosmetic revolution

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Ryan Tsang, Apr 22, 2005.

  1. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    I feel bad for women who feel they have to go under the knife to gain self esteem. I can understand if someone is born with certain defect (cleft lip/palate), has suffered some unfortunate accident (burn victims), or has medically sound reasons to surgically improve or restore their appearance. Of all of the cases that I've seen on tv, most of the women look no better than they did before. The ones that are better are mariginally so, but still no beauty. Instead of turning 2 heads walking into a restaurant, she turns 3. So what? Do these ducklings actually think they could turn into a swan? It's sad really. I think these women could be far more interesting people if they took the time and money and learned a new skill or took up a hobby, travelled, or bought new HT gear (and not plasma and Bose)
    I saw this women at a store who appeared to have collagen injections in her lips and it looked like she took a basketball to her beak.

    To the women of this world: You are fine the way you are. I prefer you natural, unaltered, with all your flaws, because you are real. I hope it is not wishful thinking to think that most men feel the same. The vanity and lack of self-worth it takes to inject your body with silicone, collagen, and botox is actually far uglier than whatever flaw you think you have. Your fake breasts are no more desirable that your small breasts. You look better standing in front of me than you do in front of a mirror. At the end of the day, it's you I want to lay next to, not some plastic doll. You can't buy self-esteem. It's earned.
     
  2. VinhT

    VinhT Second Unit

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    While your intentions may be good, the tone of your post actually feels rather negative and derogatory towards natural women. Calling them ugly and flawed, and then saying that even after enhancements they aren't much better off doesn't really help. [​IMG]
     
  3. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

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    rookie.




    j/k
     
  4. John Watson

    John Watson Screenwriter

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    Ryan, Amen!

    I don't think 'flaws' as used in your post is the least pejorative.

    Unfortunately, survey after survey shows that many people think better looking, taller people, are nicer, smarter, etc.

    Which to me only proves many people are shallow and stupid.
     
  5. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

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    By calling them "ducklings" and calling it "sad" that they think they can be a "swan", you are perpetuating the same social attitude that drives them to seek artificial enhancement to begin with.

    Then there's the issue with your condescending personalized "stamp of approval" to "real" women.

    Sometimes it pays to think things through before starting a thread.
     
  6. Claudia P

    Claudia P Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm with Ryan on this one. I don't think Ryan intended to offend, but rather used 'duckling' & 'swan' to illustrate a desire to be transformed from one creature to another. It's just not possible for a 'plain Jane' to become stunningly beautiful with a few cuts of a surgeon's knife or substances injected here & there.

    Some of my friends have had cosmetic surgery. The older women wanted to regain a little youth, the younger ones with breast augmentation wanted to please their husbands.

    A recent shopping experience had me wondering about how far this obsession with beauty will go - I must have been the only woman in the store who had not been augmented in some way. The fake breasts, the sculpted bodies, the rigid faces (too much botox), the full lips (collagen)- I felt like I was surrounded by androids!

    I kinda like my smallish breasts, my soft, shapely body, the laughter lines that map my face. Here's to being au naturale !
     
  7. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Doesn't really bother me if women want to go under the knife. I wonder how many men would be out there taking a second mortgage if they could pack on another 6 inches.
     
  8. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    Jesus Christ man, I don't want every sexual encounter I have to end-up like the 'Lust' murder from Se7en.

    But to give maybe a more appropriate querry, How many billions of dollars are spent a hair on hair-replacement procedures?
     
  9. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    No one should feel belittled when someone doesn't find him/her attractive. It's like being shot down by a member of the opposite sex after a blind date. Do you go home and whine about it and wish you could be/look like somebody else? Or do you hold you head up high, shake it off, and get on with your life with your pride intact? What does an emotionally strong person do in that situation?

    My point is even if one is told that they are old or unattractive, it SHOULD NOT drive them to such lengths to alter who they are. Such lack of a backbone is weak. And if it's their person that is lacking, no amount of physical enhancements can make up for that. Surgery is just a temporary crutch to lean on. As long as the person lacks self-esteem, he/she would go on scrutinizing their body and find more things to fix.

    If I was asked to give an honest opinion on someone's nose job, and I thought it really didn't make a difference, I'd tell that person.(Of course I'd do it in a sincere, polite, and honest way, not be an ass about it.) Why? Sure, it seems mean and harsh, but why condone the delusion? Why not tell your buddy his fly is undone? Why not tell your wife you can see her makeup lines so she can fix it? These examples are small and harmless, but should teens get breast implants? Should women relentlessly fight aging? I see these 50-somethings tanning their aging skin, only to like apples that have been sitting out too long. It's husbands who think with their penises that drive women to do these things, not honest people like me.

    If one wants to change their appearance for the right reasons, I have no problems with that. This includes body art, tattoos, extreme piercings, and the like. These people clearly know what they want and are doing for themselves. My argument is aimed that those who feel inadequate and insecure, and rely on others' approval for their sense of self worth.

    I have skinny chicken legs. Should I stop wearing shorts in the summer or rush to get calf implants? Cuz I really want to impress the chicks you know. While I'm at it, should I go buy the most badass Ford pickup? Cuz when I pull up to a party, that will undoubtedly add some masculinity to my skinny ass, won't it?




    No...I would not get penial (sp?) implants. Any women who won't accept me for who I am can leave.
     
  10. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    That is EXACTLY my point. In auto terms...You can't turn a Civic into an M3. Any woman who does needs Dr. Phil, not Dr. Scalpel. Either you're born with it or you're not, nothing can change that about the human face. The great thing is, even if you think you're not, somebody out there thinks you are.
     
  11. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Objection your honor. Calls for a conclusion.

    If you've got a problem with women that go in for that Ryan, just don't date them.
     
  12. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

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    I used to have skinny chicken legs. I didn't care for them. So I worked out and filled them a bit. No need for surgery, it's not a black-and-white, zero-sum issue.

    And yes, I agree, any woman who can't accept me for who I am can leave. What you seem to be willfully ignoring is that a lot of people alter their physique, for themselves, not to please someone else. Right now, I have some extra weight. I desperately want to lose it. My fianceĆ© loves me, and whenever I whine about my weight, or not liking my reflection right now, she sweetly reassures me that she loves me for me, not for however I may look. And she is truthful, because trust me, it ain't money that's keeping her around [​IMG] But I want to do it anyway, for me. And so do many other people. You seem to be consistently ignoring this possibility because it gets in the way of your all-inclusive rant against all forms of cosmetic manipulation (except tattoos and piercings, I guess. No bias there, again.)
     
  13. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Uh... this is NOT true at all, anyone who has taken Psych 101 will tell you as much. You come from the (obsolete) school of thougth that change can only be effectuated from inside out - that is absolutely wrong. "Outside in" works as well.

    There is such a thing as "fake it till you make it" (cut it till you make it?). Meaning, in this case, a person with low self-esteem who decides to take care of their apparence by some artificial mean (new clothes, haircut, surgery, whatever) will feel better afterwards. The behaviour-attitude relationship goes both ways.

    --
    H
     
  14. Ryan Tsang

    Ryan Tsang Second Unit

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    It all comes down to how much change is actually done. If we're talking losing 80lbs and then having the excess skin removed. Fine. If we're talking about bulking up 25lbs of muscle. All the power to you. Those are big, life-altering changes. Getting rid of wrinkles is not. I know this girl who's getting braces to slightly de-rotate one canine in a dentition that most people AFTER braces don't even have. (I'm a dentist so I know) She trims about 1/2 inch of hair at a nearby salon everytime she says "she's having an ugly day." This girl also very voluptuous and has tried (probably not very hard) to lose weight. The way I see it, the teeth and the hair thing is like fixing door dings on a car. It doesn't do anything. She'd ask me: "So.. what do you think?" after such haircuts. Every time I'd say: "Looks the same as you always do," because she does. She'd be much happier, healthier, and better off if she'd spent all her energy and money into healthier eating and exercise. I see all sorts of normal folks spending thousands tweaking to look like....normal folks. Not too far removed from buying Nordost cables
    for a receiver and HTiB.

    I don't want these breasts/eyes/thighs or this age is the same to me as me saying "I don't want to be Chinese, I want to be an a 6'2, 210lb, Cauasian, Ivy League quaterback."



    I've done laps on this many times before. Sometimes I can play Devil's Advocate and argue against myself and make sense like you guys do. I'm just tired of seeing all these makeover shows and 50-somethings on a Bowflex thinking she can turn back time. I wonder how many people would go to such lengths to have a beach body if there's no one to show off to? How many SoCal girls would get implants if they were forced to live in the Arctic under a parka for 10months? My point is, many do such things for vanity in hopes to get noticed. Normal folks should never be disillusioned to think money can buy them beauty.
     
  15. John Watson

    John Watson Screenwriter

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    "A recent shopping experience had me wondering about how far this obsession with beauty will go - I must have been the only woman in the store who had not been augmented in some way. The fake breasts, the sculpted bodies, the rigid faces (too much botox), the full lips (collagen)- I felt like I was surrounded by androids!"

    How far? It goes on all the way to fantasies of eternal life - and includes drug cures for shyness, cures for cancer, genetic modifications and engineering to produce perfect babies, etc. [​IMG]
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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  17. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

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    That's a ridiculous analogy. Seriously.
     
  18. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    There are many good and valid reasons that are not simply vanity why more people should be engaging in regular exercise and strength training. Especially in the 50+ age bracket.
     
  19. Claudia P

    Claudia P Stunt Coordinator

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    One of my relatives is an exercise physiologist. He has a research team working on the 'problem' of aging. Each of our cells has a predetermined life, a little 'clock' inside that one day just stops. His team are trying to keep that clock running thereby extending the life of the cells and in the process hope to uncover the secrets of eternal life. So I have some knowledge of scientific research in this area and of the direction of genetic engineering etc. I'm in no doubt as to how far the obsession with eternal youth will take us and the scale of tax dollars being spent in research across the sciences.

    On the subject of cosmetic surgery, it concerns me that so many 12 & 13 year olds with still-developing bodies feel the pressure to have breast implants or feel the need to undergo 'corrective' surgery.

    Yes, a good hair cut, a little make-up and well-cut clothes that suit the body shape can make all the difference to one's appearance. But that is not the point of the discussion. I think Ryan is getting at what motivates women (and men - look at Michael Jackson) to undergo radical cosmetic surgery. It's not all positive. Psych 101 will reveal that, too.

    I'm reminded of the lyrics of a song:

    "She lives around the corner from the fountain of youth"

    Don't we all. [​IMG]
     
  20. MikeEn

    MikeEn Stunt Coordinator

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    Umm, yeah, me too, sure thing. Where exactly is that store?
     

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