Suggestions for best clarity - Dali/Paradigms/AVR? (1 Viewer)

[Artyfly]

So, I decided after listening to several kinds of Dalis, Magnepans, ProAc, Paradigms, that I should go with Dali & Paradigm. I bought a pair of Lektor 1 for the fronts and a Paradigm PDR-80 sub. And, I'm planning on purchasing a pair of Paradigm Atoms for the sides and a less expensive paradigm pair of satellites for the rear in a 7.1 setup in a 20(L) x 12(W) x 8(H) approximate room. I say approx since there's a nook on the side of the front part of the room and a hallway to the side in the back. So, based on what I wanted - accurate, precise sound for the best bang for the buck while still being non-Chinese made speakers, the speaker salesman recommended the Dali for the fronts and the rest as Paradigm since I didn't want to spend a ton. He doesn't actually work on a commission so I'm assuming he's not trying to steer me wrong. I mean, I understand he wants his bosses business to survive, but he's not out to make himself more mula off my purchases. The estimated budget I have is around $1500 to $2000 including an AVR, but that can be adjusted higher if needed. I basically really want the most bang for the buck all the while the speakers are non-Chinese. I guess it might be ok if they are made in China as long as they are Designed & Engineered not in China - I think the Lektors might actually be assembled in China (since they say on the back of the speakers "Designed & Engineered in Denmark". Am I correct on that? So, would any of you say this set up doesn't make sense? I've read on forums that a HT setup should have speakers from the same company & same series and that the sub can be a different company if wanted to. Also, what would be an appropriate AVR for this? I want to get a 3D capable AVR. I was looking at the Yamaha 867, but not sure if that's 3D capable. I have an Onkyo 606, which the salesman said it would be fine if I felt that it was fine. But I'm not getting the same sound quality out of the Dali fronts as the sales floor, I even bought the recommended speaker cables - Kimber Kable Kwik 16 for the fronts - that's gonna be spendy if I want that quality wire for the rest of the speakers (at $1.35 per foot - bought 30 foot so far) but I'll do it if that's the speaker wire to make quality speakers give their full potential sound quality - I know there's even better Kimber Kable 4PR and 8PR etc.. but seems those are really pricey per foot. Any advice on what exactly would be a better set up if I really want good clarity of voices/music in movies/games and the best bang for the buck for it - maybe a different Dali series or different Paradigm speakers? But the PDR 80 is awesome BTW. I know that I might not be able to afford a non-Chinese made AVR, but any suggestions on any type of AVR or even just an audio receiver is appreciated. This might be a lot to ask. But I appreciate any help. Thank you.

 

[Jason Charlton]

Hi Adam,


When it comes to "matching" speakers - by far the most critical to match are the front three. You didn't mention a center channel, hopefully that will be a Dali to match the mains. As long as the speakers sound good to you, they'll be fine.


Paradigm make good speakers, and I have an older Servo-15 subwoofer which is a monster. Generally speaking, though, you can get much better value in subwoofers by going internet direct. SVS is the big name that is tossed around all the time, but Lava is another good option (their 12" model is under $290 with a HTF member discount).


If budget is tight, the first thing I'd consider is ditching the rear surrounds and just stick with 5.1 instead of stretching to 7.1. Perhaps use the extra money to push up the subwoofer budget. A better subwoofer will improve a system much more than the addition of back surrounds.


As for the speaker cable, don't spend a lot. Simple 14 gauge speaker wire from monoprice.com is all you really need. Get CL-2 rated if you're going to run in-wall, otherwise there's not much else to consider.


Finally, with receivers, the most popular "bang for the buck" manufacturer is Onkyo. The 609 is well-equipped and won't bust the bank (less than $400 at Amazon). I strongly advise against overbuying on the receiver front. Don't go up a model for more wattage - wattage numbers are no way to judge a receiver (it takes double the wattage for a 3dB increase in volume). As long as your speakers are 8 ohm models, just about any mid-range receiver will do fine. Get one that has the number and type of inputs you need, and one with a quality calibration/setup utility (Audyssey on Onkyo and Denon is considered the best).


Good luck!

 

[Artyfly]

I'm starting to think that I should 5.1 this setup. The Lektors are $500. Atoms are $300. Kwik16 is virgin copper from Utah. So, I was informed that the more pure the copper is, the less impedence/resistance in the speaker wire and hence better sound quality. The bare copper wire feels nice and solid as opposed to the Phillips 100' 16 gauge wire I got about 4 years ago for my PolkAudios. I felt the base from the Paradigm was overpowering but it seemed like accurate sound. Will the Definitive Technology sub be accurate in sound? I don't want just rumbling base with no music in it. The Dali sub was about $995. I think that's a little out of my budget.

 

[Artyfly]

Thank you Jason. So, are the Lava or SVS subs accurate in sound? I mean, just about any sub can give base and without music to it. The PDR80 has good sound to it - but I can barely turn it up without the base being overwhelming. I'm thinking I need to try something else. Maybe front speakers that don't need a sub since they have enough base in them? I tried a 1,300 pair of paradigms - forget which, that had a great amount of base. I might go with Onkyo then based on what I've seen. The high quality AVRs seem so expensive - NAD, Anthem, etc... that were at the audio store.

 

[Jason Charlton]

The subs from SVS and Lava are very good. They have a very flat frequency response so when they are properly set up and calibrated, they will be very accurate.


That's another key point - setup and calibration is key to getting the most out of a system. That's another reason the Audyssey utility (and others like it) is so highly regarded - it takes much of the guesswork out of calibrating a system (simply using your ears is a really bad idea). Calibration using something like Audyssey provides a great baseline, then you can make minor adjustments to boost channels slightly more to your liking.


"Boominess" in a subwoofer can also be the result of room acoustics combined with subwoofer placement. Moving the sub from one location to another can dramatically affect the sound levels in various spots around the room. There's a certain degree of trial and error that may come with figuring out the best place for the subwoofer (provided you have some placement flexibility - in some cases you don't and there are other ways to deal with boominess when you can't relocate the sub).


Also, I will add this. IMO, you're ALWAYS better off with a dedicated subwoofer than you are trying to get by with the woofers (or powered woofers) found in some tower speakers. I like to think of it as having the right tool for the job. A subwoofer is best at playing low. Mains are best at the mids and highs (even expensive towers with powered woofers will not go as low as a decent subwoofer). By routing the LFE effects to a subwoofer, you relieve some "strain" from the mains and allow them to do what they do best, while letting the subwoofer do what it does best.


Modern AVRs allow you to specify either "full range" (sometimes called "large") for the main speakers, or set a frequency cutoff level at anywhere from 80Hz to 150Hz. It's always recommended to set a cutoff that will best allow your mains and sub to blend together.


If you have more detailed questions, there is a separate subwoofer area of this forum and one member (Robert_J) who frequents that forum who knows more about subwoofers than just about anyone out there. Start a thread (or review the ones that are there) and he'll chime in with TONS of great info.

 

[Artyfly]

Great! Thank you for the information. I am trying out different locations with the sub. Still seems overpowered for the Dalis though. I might just have to return the Dalis and simply get Paradigms as a whole set up. Maybe they would match better with the sub. Or perhaps I just have to keep the Hz down and the volume down on the sub since maybe the room just isn't big enough to handle the sub. And it also might help to get a more efficient AVR so the speakers sound better so maybe the speakers will match the sub better. Thank you for the advice.

 

[David Willow]

"The more pure the copper the better the sound?" Wow! I'd love to meet this salesman and have a nice 'chat' with him about some snake oil I have for sale. If the sub is 'overpowering' the rest of your speakers, you do not have it calibrated properly. Calibrating means making all the speakers play at the same level so, yes, the volume should be adjusted accordingly. Only way to do this is to measure by using an SPL meter or using the built in setup of your AVR (like Audyssey).