Studio 100 vs Studio 40 (1 Viewer)

[Darrin M]

Hi all,
I am sorry if this has been posted before but the search function seems to be down.
I want to upgrade the fronts of my HT and have decided on the Studio 100's or the Studio 40's. I already have the Servo 15 and the Studio CC. My question is this: do I need to go with the 100's. My thinking is, if I understand this right, all of the bass will go to the sub so I wouldn't need the extra low range capabilities of the 100's. Price isn't really a concern just sound quality. I will be powering whatever speakers I get with my Yamaha RXV995 as a pre/pro and the Outlaw 770 or a set of Outlaw 200's (another post for another time)
If someone has the search working any posts on this discussion would also help.
Thanks for any input

 

[Martin Rendall]

I have the 100's and the CC. It's my feeling that the transition between the mains and the center is not quite seamless. I would expect the 40's to do a better job, as they are functionally much closer to the CC. On the other hand, I could be totally wrong.

The 100's also require a higher end amp to drive effectively, which may or may not be a factor for you. Depends on the receiver or amp you are/plan to use.

The 100's are awesome speakers, but then reportedly, so are the 40's. If I were buying again, I really don't know what I would get. Sorry - I guess that's no help at all. :b

Another thought: do you have surrounds yet? Cause 4 40's and a CC would make an excellent balanced system. Stands to reason.

Martin.

 

[Dave Ma]

I just listened to the 40's 60's and 100's. Since you have that Servo 15 the 100's are not needed. With that said I did not like the 40's whatsoever, to "BRIGHT", no bass. The 60's sound like the 100's but with less bass. Factor in the price of stands for the 40's and your at the price of the 60's, plus to me the 60's sound much better. I am going with the 60's. 20's 60's 100's Are my favorites.
Listen for yourself.
This might help even though it's not for the 100's
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=224448

 

[Greg_R]

Before I got my 40s, I listened to the 100s quite extensively (Theta Cassablanca and Dreadnaught front end). Although the 100s have more extension, I felt the 40s were more controlled and musical. If you like (very) high-spls the 100s may be worthwhile (more dynamic impact). Go listen to both and decide for yourself...

 

[Matt Odegard]

I have 40's. The 60's were too short and didn't reach my ear level. Besides I love the look of my 40's on the nice stands there on, which were only $75. IMO a much better look, sound and they have quite a bit of bass, you'll be suprised. But your ears have to decide.

 

[DonJ]

To put it plainly, you're going to be happy ethier way you go. I'm happy with my monitors for home theater, Paradigm make a good speaker all around. I'm using my HK 320 as a pre/pro and Anthem PVA 7 amp.

 

[Jim_Lan]

I agree that the 100's and the servo give you overlap, but if sound quality is the key I found the 100's to have a better midrange than the 60's. Was easy to hear in A/B testing.

 

[Darrin M]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and advice. Currently my dealer has a sound room set up with the Servo 15 the Studio CC and the Studio 40 for fronts and the Studio ADPs for the two sets of rears. When I heard this setup I was blown away and was ready to go for it but then the dealer said "do you want to listen to the 100's?" I think because I am relatively new to this the 100's visual presence was what made them sound better to me. So I thought I should come back here to get more informed opinions. Again thank you very much, I think it's time to go demo some Studio 60's.

 

[MikeRP]

I disagree with what Dave said about the bass on the 40's. Remember to ask if your listening to speakers that are broken in. I had some loaner 40's while my pair in rosenut were on order and they were fabulous.

Got the new ones and the bass was terrible. 3 weeks later the new speakers were great. They almost have too much bass now in my setup (3 months later). I have the receiver turned way down.

So I think the bass response may be determined by the room setup.

But the 40's are fabulous and I wouldn't consider the 60's because I wanted the speakers higher off the ground.

Just my opinion. You won't go wrong with any of the studios.

Mike

 

[Chas_T]

Darrin,

I have both these speakers in my 5.1 system and the 40's and 100's have distinct characteristics.

Some things to consider with the 100's is amplification, 2 channel music, size of room, footprint and children.

As you know, the 100's need 200 watts minimum for reference volume as suggested by Paradigm. The 100's will play with less power, but my tests have shown with Parasound and Modial/Aragon amps, which range from 85 x 2 bi-amped to 125 watts, they lose something when pushed with less power.

There are still audiophiles who enjoy listening to music with just the fronts and no sub. I can remember the days when subs were not even a part of a 2 channel system. That is one reason I bought the 100's as they provide fleixibility in this area.

If you have a really large room, the 100's might have an advantage there as they have a bit of extra zap with their lower extension and reproduction. They shine when they are placed away from the wall with a wide distance between them. Also, the 100's can be pickey about placement.

Speakers on stands with smaller children can be a bit precarious depending on where your listening room is, placement and the kids themselves. The 100's are like 109 pounds and not easy to tip over.

The 40's are great speakers. I love the look when placed on speaker stands.

Four of them create a balanced sound with the CC. For most homes and tastes, they are a fine choice. It would not surprise me if Paradigm sells more 40's then any other speaker in the Reference lineup.

The 40's cost less, create a great look, have more flexibility to adjust the height with the an appropriate stand, are much, much easier to move and also do not take as much space as the 100's.

As Mike has written, "You can't go wrong with any of the Studio's" if you like the Paradigm sound.

Much luck,
Charles

 

[Darrin M]

Chas_T,
Good to know other listeners out there use the same setup I am currently considering. Can I assume that you use 40 for the rears? I was thinking about the Studio ADP's for the rears and eventually the sides (7.1). If I go with the 40's should I use them for rears instead? My room is approx. 15 x 16 x 7 1/2. If I am reading all of the specs properly the Outlaw model 200(one per channel) or the 770 will handle the requirements of either speaker choice. This equipment will be used for HT about 85% of the time.

 

[Martin Rendall]

Chas_T,

As you know, the 100's need 200 watts minimum for reference volume as suggested by Paradigm.

I'm really interested to know where this is stated. 'Cause I don't believe it's true...

Thanks,
Martin.

 

[Chas_T]

Martin

I'm really interested to know where this is stated. 'Cause I don't believe it's true...

You will not see it on their web site that is for sure. I received a mail from their tech support one time and also talking with 2 Paradigm dealers, they told me the same thing Martin. Recommened amp power is 200.

So, in accordance with this suggestion, I've listened to the 100's with a Sony STR-DA777ES (105 Per), A bi-amped Parsound 855A (85 X 2) and now a Sherbourn (I did a test with 200 per and also 2 x 200) and I proved it to myself that their suggestions are correct.

Perhaps you can drive the 100's with a higher end amp like Classe, Bryston, Krell and it may be a different story with less power. I am not there YET.

Don't get me wrong, you can drive the 100's with less power. It's when you raise the volume a bit that I can hear the difference. I am not talking reference levels either.

For example, my Sherbourn is out for repair right now, so I have a spare amp, the Parasound 855A connected and bi-amped at 85 x 2 into the 100's. Again, IMHO the soundstage is thin, bass flops and the mids and highs are bright. It's almost fatiquing to listen to the 100's and I never experienced this before with the Sherbourn.

I have found from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND TESTS (NO blind testing) that the 100's come alive with tighter bass, wider soundstage, more defined mids and highs with more juice.

I've proven it to myself with my tests as I am just like you. Prove it to me. I did prove it to myself.

If you want to go that route fine. If not, believe what you want. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I only know what works for me.

Charles

 

[Chas_T]

Darrin,

Can I assume that you use 40 for the rears?

Yes, I use the 40's for rears amped with an Modial/Aragon 8002 - 2 channel/125 per. Initially, I had a pair of 20's back there but put them in my pc room and bought a pair of 40's.

Why? Because I listen to SACD and after doing an A-B comparrison between the 20's/40's, I prefered the 40's. Also they are direct firing speakers versus the ADP's, which I think would be better for SACD. I've never had a pair of ADP's in my system as my local dealer does not have a lucrative return policy.

Now, if I had a 7.1 system, I'd bring in a pair of ADP's for fill the final two parts of the puzzle. For the moment, the 5.1 system is adequate for me.

 

[Martin Rendall]

Hey Charles,

Here's what I believe: an amplifier with a decent damping factor (which is a gross simplification of what's going on) is going to distort less with the 100's. The 100's have a wild squiggly impedence curve; they are very reactive. While you may not even need more than 50 or 100 watts (probably less, in fact) to achieve your listening volumes, you do need an amp which can handle stressful current draw changes. It just so happens that the higher quality amps which can do this (in the price ranges of the typical 100's buyer) also happen to be high power amps, with impressive ratings like 200Wpc or 300Wpc, or whatever.

So, in summary, the better amps handle crazy varying impedence loads, and sound better with the 100's. They also happen to have high power specs. The one doesn't have to imply the other - it just happens to be the case that the two characteristics are commonly found together in amps. EDIT: Actually, they are related, so manufacturers of course design for both.

Paradigm tech support and dealers will find it much easier to just say, "get lots of power" than to try to explain what impedence handling characteristics an amp has. So I would take their statements with a grain of salt.

I also don't think that passively bi-amping is the an optimal method of feeding the 100's. I believe it to sacrifice distortion for additional volume. This is totally subjective on my part, so please, nobody take offence. If you test it out, you'll see that two 100Wpc amps biamped to a speaker will by 3dB louder than one 200Wpc amp not biamped.

Bottom line: I think it's hard to draw definitive conclusions about what's going on without much more empirical testing. My statements can't be anything other than opinion.

Martin.

 

[Chas_T]

Martin

Bottom line: I think it's hard to draw definitive conclusions about what's going on without much more empirical testing. My statements can't be anything other than opinion.

I have a general understanding when you speak about impedence loads and that is why I put that short disclaimer of perhaps with a Classe, Krell, Bryston, this theory may go out the window. I don't have the resources to dwell into this level yet. I'd love to try it though.

I've attempted not to get offended when someone makes a comment that disagrees with my findings or experience. Hey, life is like this!!!

In this situation, your post is fine with me. We really are here to help one another and if we can celebrate our similarities and embrace our differences, then life sure is a bit easier.

I too believe that passive bi-amping is not maximizing any speaker. The external crossover is the prefered choice for most bi-amping. When I put the straight 200 into the 100's it sounded fine. However, when I did the passive bi-amp, 2 x 200, I heard the bass tighten up and it just sounded a bit better.

You should do some testing on your own if you have not done so already. That is one of the reasons why I did this amp swapping out just to see if it was bull dumps. Seriously, it did make a difference IMHO.

Now, if I could only try a Classe, Bryston just for the fun of it!!