Star Trek TOS: Regular or Remastered (1 Viewer)

[Nebiroth]

I bought the set of the original series before they went out of print: I have no intention of buying a BluRay player and the only way you can get the series on standard now is with the added cartoon stuff. Which will date far faster than the original effects ever did, so in a few years from now we'll all be laughing at how crude it looks.

I wouldn;t have minded a standard def release of the fiddled about with edition, if they'd kept the original available as well but I guess they thought they'd made all the sales they were going to out of that, and thought the poor dumb consumer wouldn't be able to cope with having to choose which edition they wanted. I always want the original work to be available - which admittedly it is, on Blu - like with the Doctor Who stuff, where they always use branching and allow the user to select which edition they are seeing.

I always watch the original effects and wonder at how they achieved so much, with so little.

Something inside me dies a little more every time I realise that modern audiences can't tolerate anything unless it's in colour, with fancy CGI effects and where you get people saying "so when's the next explosion?" if there hasn;t been one for at least 3 seconds.

Ever seen the Doctor Who story, City of Death? The Doctor takes Romana to see the Mona Lisa....and the first thing she says is:

"She hasn't got any eyebrows. At least the computers on Gallifrey can draw properly".

 

[Ockeghem]

"I always watch the original effects and wonder at how they achieved so much, with so little."

Nebiroth,

This is for me especially true in the areas of make-up and special effects.

"Something inside me dies a little more every time I realise that modern audiences can't tolerate anything unless it's in colour, with fancy CGI effects and where you get people saying "so when's the next explosion?" if there hasn;t been one for at least 3 seconds."

Agreed. Good story-writing is just that, and can for some be appreciated on so many levels without all of the bells and whistles.

BTW, by 'cartoon stuff,' do you mean TAS? If you do, then I'll just chime in to say that I love TAS. Some of the story-writing in that series is very, very good.

 

[smithb]

Nebiroth,

I agree with you that some movies of today attempt to make the CGI effects the star instead of the story line and actors. Which is a shame because once the effects are dated so will be the movies.

But I disagree about the additions made to the original Star Trek episodes. It's the stories and actors that make them great whether with currently dated effects, new effects, and it will be the same when the new effects are dated. While in some cases they add a bit of zing for the most part they seamless fill in what would have probably been done in the beginning, if possible. In other words, they do not attempt to take over the show, in my opinion.

I recall one addition that I did not even realize was an addition until I saw the extras discussing the enhancements. There is a scene where Scotty is trying to break into engineering with a type of laser torch. You see the effects on the wall panel but nothing coming from the device itself. All they did was add a beam going from the tool to the wall.

I can understand them not wanting to do two releases, one with additonal effects and one with out. But based on what they did with the BR disks they should have done branching within the latest DVD's to give everyone what they desire. Especially since they cleaned up the video some more.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by Ockeghem

BTW, by 'cartoon stuff,' do you mean TAS? If you do, then I'll just chime in to say that I love TAS. Some of the story-writing in that series is very, very good.

No, I believe he is talking about the new CGI effects that were added to the original series.

 

[Jason_V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithb




No, I believe he is talking about the new CGI effects that were added to the original series.

That is my understanding as well.

I was very vocal when they redid the effects. I'm not terribly fond of them BUT the original versions are still being preserved in the same exact manner as the remastered shows. CBS did the right thing by putting both editions on the BD set. Now if only George Lucas would learn from this...

 

[Carabimero]

I am starting my way through the original series remastered with WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE. I haven't watched these in two or three years. The thing that really bothers me is how different the Enterprise looks. True, the original Enterprise model was, in fact, greyish green, but it never looked that way to me on the original series. The remastered look bugs me because I keep thinking it is the movie Enterprise and it takes me out of the TV episode. Below is a shot that illustrates my point: how the Enterprise appeared, almost white, with a little bluespill, in the original series. And the remastered grey look that throws me for a loop every time I see it. I am trying to learn to love it and not having any luck.

 

[Jason_V]

Regardless of whether the Enterprise ever *looked* grey to you, it always was. I was not a huge fan of the remaster but I appreciate what they did and how they did it. This may be far more than you ever wanted to know about the color of the Enterprise, but Doug Drexler lays it all out for you (and anybody else) here. Light grey with a light tint of green.


In addition, going back to the very first shot of the Enterprise ever filmed (in-universe, chronologically speaking) from The Cage, I'm not sure how it could anything but grey.

 

[Carabimero]

I know it was always grey, it just never looked grey to me. And growing up the AMT model kit I had of the Enterprise was WHITE, which for me says all that needs saying about the impression of what color the Enterprise was, as SEEN in the original show, regardless of what color the studio model actually was. Sure, subsequent models changed, but the first licensed one I ever had growing up did nothing to correct my impression of the starship's color. So obviously I'm not the only one who thought it was more white than grey. There are a lot of things I like about TOS-R. Just last night I watched MUDD'S WOMEN and that whole first sequence is more exciting because we can see Mudd's ship and the asteroid field. It is light years better. But that darn grey Enterprise...

 

[younger1968]

I know it was always grey, it just never looked grey to me. And growing up the AMT model kit I had of the Enterprise was WHITE, which for me says all that needs saying about the impression of what color the Enterprise was, as SEEN in the original show, regardless of what color the studio model actually was. Sure, subsequent models changed, but the first licensed one I ever had growing up did nothing to correct my impression of the starship's color. So obviously I'm not the only one who thought it was more white than grey. There are a lot of things I like about TOS-R. Just last night I watched MUDD'S WOMEN and that whole first sequence is more exciting because we can see Mudd's ship and the asteroid field. It is light years better. But that darn grey Enterprise...

Wait till you watch the doomsday machine or enterprise incident or balance of terror, etc. The exterior shots are amazing! I have both the re-mastered and the original series. It is very hard to watch the original series without the re-mastering. I applaud there efforts on re-mastering and wish more could have been done with other sci-fi shows, like kolchak or Space 1999 or the original battelstar gallactica, etc.

 

[Richard--W]

I was adamantly opposed to the new digital effects. I made sure my opposition was heard. Then I saw what they did, and understood why they did it. Digitization exposes the artifice of the original effects. Miniatures look like miniatures, rear screen looks like rear screen, and opticals look like opticals. They were so careful to do it right, and their effects give every advantage to the original episodes. It works for me. I accept it. I always thought the ship was grey so that it would photograph as white. A grey won't bounce light back at the camera the way white does. Anyhow, there's a lot fo things the digital generation doesn't know, but grey Enterprise looks good enough for me.

 

[Carabimero]

Richard, yeah exactly. It was grey so it wouldn't wash out and it would minimize bluespill and look white. That means, arguably, the intent was the on-screen creation of a white Enterprise. That's my argument as to why it should be more or less white in the remastered shows. Come to think of it, I not only had one white model Enterprise, I had a cool die-cast white Enterprise that shot these orange pellets out of the front of the saucer section. Since my last post I also asked all my non-ST-loving friends on my FB page what color the original Enterprise from the first ST series was. All 14 said white. None said grey. Perception is reality on the glowing screen. Younger1968: I have owned the remastered DVDs since street dates, and seen them all before, but haven't watched them in a couple of years because the Enterprise being grey put me off. I am trying to give them another chance now and learn to love the grey. There's so much to like about all the great work done by CBS/P on these remastered episodes. I'm just expressing my opinion about what I believe the intent of the creators of the show was--that the Enterprise be portrayed onscreen as a more-or-less white starship, citing the technical considerations mentioned above and the color of the first officially licensed models. Whatever the creators' true intent, in my heart and in my boyhood dreams the Enterprise was, and always will be, white. Edit: A friend just emailed me and said James Blish described the Enterprise as "white" in one of his dramatizations of the original series, and that some blueprints of the original Enterprise say that it is "ceramic white." Despite the real model being grey, the fictional Enterprise clearly isn't. Edit #2: The Enterprise is white in the original Gold Key Comics, too, as well as the vast majority of other comic books.

 

[younger1968]

It is neat seeing the different perspective on the re-mastering of the star trek series. I am huge star trek fan and love anything to do with star trek.

 

[Carabimero]

Also, the Enterprise float that Paramount had constructed to celebrate its 100th anniversary and fly in the Tournament of Roses Parade...it's white.

 

Or any episodes incorrect as far as the title credits go? I thought I read that some of the episodes have the wrong season openings on them.

 

[Carabimero]

I am not expert enough on TOS-R to address that issue, although my impression from watching nearly the entire first season recently is that they sometimes dissolve out of principal shots a few seconds early to have extra time for the CGI shots of the grey Enterprise. That takes me out of the episode every time. I think it's a trade off. To see the sensational work of the Star Base in Court Martial almost makes it worth stomaching that grey Enterprise, and unnatural tweaks in the editing. One thing that did bother me about the title shots, say, in Shore Leave, is that was the only episode, if I recall correctly, that had the Enterprise orbiting from right to left. They should have left it that way (pun intended).

 

[Ockeghem]

"One thing that did bother me about the title shots, say, in Shore Leave, is that was the only episode, if I recall correctly, that had the Enterprise orbiting from right to left. They should have left it that way (pun intended)." Carabimero, Yes, you're correct, unless you count the alternating/intermittent orbiting shots included in Mirror, Mirror. Do you mean to say that in Shore Leave, the Enterprise is orbiting from left to right (as in all of the other episodes) in the Remastered set? May I ask why this was changed?

 

[Joel Fontenot]

Also, the Enterprise float that Paramount had constructed to celebrate its 100th anniversary and fly in the Tournament of Roses Parade...it's white.

Yeah, but that's the J.J.prise - from the 2009 movie. Totally different animal. As to the color, I go by the real color of the filming miniature. Color on-screen varied way too much depending on when and where it was broadcast, the quality of the local station video feed from the film projection into the camera during those early syndicated runs (which also varied from 35mm to 16mm copies - don't know if and when videotape copies from Paramount began to be used - if ever), the quality of the TV you were watching it on (how likely was that early 70s TV set with the light-gray shadow mask properly calibrated?). Even looking at the Blu-rays of the original effects today, the color of the ship ranges from off-white, to gray, to blueish, to purplish-blue, to sometimes even a bit greenish. There are some shots where the model does look very close to it's real color. I think it depended on who did the composites at that point. But, to me, using what it looked like on TV as a basis is almost pointless. Remember that even AMT sold the model kit in varying colors over the years. It started out white, but there was a light blue period in the early 80s, and finally gray by the mid 80s until they no longer made the kit themselves. The actual color is a gray with very a slight greenish tint.. On the model at the Smithsonian, the top of the saucer is the only part not touched during any of the museum's two refurbishments (the first, when it got there, and a second during the mid-80s) or the 90s renovation. A sample of the color was dabbed on a sheet of the original Jefferies drawings. It was still in original model builder (the late) Richard Datin's possession when he was interviewed about the model for a Star Trek magazine several years back.

 

[Carabimero]

Here's my argument, and supporting points, as to why I believe the creators of the original Star Trek intended the grey Enterprise model to appear white onscreen, and be perceived as a white starship. Roddenberry pitched the show as "Wagon Train to the stars," saying it was "Cowboys and Indians in outer space." The good guys don't ride into town wearing GREY hats. The model was mostly grey to minimize washout and reflection, and slightly green to minimize bluespill. The intent was to create the impression of a more or less white starship. That is why the first licensed models were white, die cast toys were white, the ship is described as "white" by James Blish, who adapted TOS from the original scripts into a series of novellas; the blueprints describe it as white; it's portrayed in the original Gold Key comic books as white. In the new movie it is white, in the Macy's Parade last month it was white, and on and on and on...white, white, white--it's PERCEIVED as white. That's because the good guys wear white hats, not grey ones.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

I like your argument. I just reach a different conclusion. But that's fine. I just personally chose not to include adaptations done based sometimes on early script drafts by someone not actually involved with the show. Blish was based out of England. Or fandom. As great as Franz Josephs' blueprints and tech manual are (I have both), they are, in fact, fan interpretations. (Never mind that Roddenberry originally approved of Josephs' initial work but later distanced himself from the effort - that was very wrong and rude on Roddenberry's part). Unless there are other blueprints you are referring to - Matt Jefferies' original drawings perhaps? I wouldn't accept any others. I would say that during production of TOS, the idea of Star Fleet was loosely based on an extension of the Navy, even though in the 1st season's "Tomorrow is Yesterday", Kirk describes it as a "combined service". Still, most ranks are based on Naval ranks and then there is the whole "voyage at sea" aspect that is brought up more than once throughout all of Star Trek. What color does the Navy paint all their ships and vessels? Gray. Well, they are a bit darker gray than the model of the TOS-E. Okay, so the shuttlecraft is white (with a gray bottom). And the Enterprise refit (ST-TMP, 1979) is glossy white based, with that beautiful pearlescent panelizing (and then ILM promptly ruining it for ST-II). But, again, that's just me. If you want white for the TOS-E, great.

 

[Carabimero]

I am writing an essay entitled "The Enterprise is White," which is really about perception versus reality more than Star Trek or the Enterprise, and I certainly want to present other points of view and other arguments. Yours is a good one, Joel. That the navy paints ships grey is probably the best counter argument a person could make. I like it (it will actually help me enjoy TOS-R more, for sure!). If anyone else has any thoughts on this topic, it would help me with my essay tremendously.