Sony BDP-S1 Bluray Player not having advanced surround decoding, why the frack not? (1 Viewer)

[Dave Moritz]

There is no doubt that they are sitting out and waiting to see what formats is victorious. I recieved an email from companies like Denon and Meridian saying that they would not offer an HD player until the format war was over. Granted there is a big difference between the kind of gear Denon makes and the gear that Meridian makes. But when you have companies like Denon, Meridian, Marantz and Adcom all sitting on the sidelines and not manufacturing Bluray or HD-DVD players. IMHO it only serves to say that there not willing to take a chance on ether format. And while I do not consider Toshiba to be a great quality company, when compaired with companies like Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Runco or Adcom. They still managed to end up with a HD player that does a good job at upconverting SD-DVD. And a player that after firmware patches does a very good job at playing HD-DVD software. They are offering new advanced audio decoding in there HD players and will soon have gen2 1080p players on retail shelves.

While Sony's Bluray format will soon have more choices in players by years end. And Bluray titles will soon all be VC-1 encoded and dual layer discs will be a reality. There is still no word on when HDMI 1.3 will be offered and when and if there will be onboard decoding of new surround formats offered in the near future? I would love to know if the current Bluray players that will be using HDMI 1.2 will be able to output surround formats like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS-HD to an external decoder via a HDMI connection. While it will not matter much as long as Bluray's players can output 1080p via HDMI 1.2. IMHO it will matter if those Bluray titles that offer Dolby True HD and DTS-HD can not output those formats to an external processor. With that in mind the only advantage Bluray will have at that point is Java menu's and larger data capacity. Which will not be enough to make the average consumer rush out an buy a Bluray player that cost twice as much as its compition. And does not offer the advanced audio surround formats of its cheaper competitor. While we will finally see an actuall Bluray rollout with a number of players and better quality software titles. Sony still must offer a better product than what they are currently bringing to the HD table. Sony is still acting like there product is superior and while I am not saying that the picture will not match or beat HD-DVD. Sony needs to realize that there compition is keeping one step ahead of them. And there product is still not on retailers shelves and has yet to make an impact on there rivals sales at this point in time.

I will be starting to save money for a Bluray player but I will not make my actuall purchase. Until I have had a chance to evaulate the format at my local retailer. If the lossless sound is indenticall to Dolby's and DTS's offering that is being used on HD-DVD and there is no differnce. And as long as the Bluray players work flawlessly with there software titles. Then I will most likely go ahead with my Bluray purchase. Granted I would still rather use a Dolby True HD or DTS-HD track but I will see what happens once the Sony and Pioneer players are available.

I still see the lack of onboard decoding of new audio formats to be a huge mistake and one that may come back to bite Sony!

 

[Dave Moritz]

While this is great news for anyone looking to own the PS3 once it has become available. This makes me wonder why Sony has not included Dolby True HD decoding in the stand alone Bluray player?

Do they really intend to try to win the format war with 1080p alone? There will be a 1080p HD-DVD second generation player out soon. And HD-DVD allready decodes formats like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and core DTS-HD. IMHO if Sony was truely serious about winning they would have offered full DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby True HD decoding. Along with HDMI 1.3 in there Sony player and they would have pressed Pioneer to do the same. While HD-DVD is a great product and I am happy with my HD-DVD player. I still want to see the best that Bluray can offer. Because if they continue on offering a basic player with no advanced audio decoding and no HDMI 1.3. I will be more than willing to go the next step and upgrade to a 1080p HD-DVD player instead of a 1080p Bluray player. Especially if it ever starts to look like Bluray is on the way out and is loosing the format war.

My goal is to upgrade to a 1080p HT that includes a HD projector so I can enjoy HD 1080p movies on a 100" + screen with Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio surround track when available.

 

[dkny75]

Here's my question about the TrueHD in the PS3.

Will it have components to decode the TrueHD inside the PS3 or will it be TrueHD capable which means you'd need a receiver capable of decoding it. The Toshiba decodes it in the player so you can get TrueHD through analog or HDMI. If it doesn't decode it internally then you'd need to buy a new receiver (non exist yet) that is able to decode TrueHD.

Am I correct or is my question just plain invalid?

 

[BrettGallman]

It sounds to me like the PS3 will decode it internally. Otherwise, I don't see the point in the press release because theoretically, if one had a receiver that could decode the advanced formats, every player supports the formats, right?

I mean, the Samsung BD player out there now doesn't decode the new formats internally, but if you had a reciever that could, you're all set to go. Kind of like regular DTS now. I used to have a player that couldn't decode it, but my receiver could, so you only need the one or the other.

So, if the press release doesn't mean that the PS3 is decoding TrueHD internally, I don't see what the point is.

 

[Seth=L]

Screw HDMI, screw inability to play CD's and SACD's, screw Sony's marketing tactics, screw mpeg2. Why can't they just fix the problems? My guess, if the PS3 doesn't go well, then Blu-Ray will go belly-up, plain and simple. You can't expect people to pay $1000 or more on a player that doesn't play SACD's or CD's doesn't have up to date decoding, and no 7.1. We have receivers and processors with 7.1 inputs why don't the players have 7.1 outputs over analog? Am I the only one who feels that Sony has molested itself, again?

 

[Seth=L]

Once it is in raw bitstream, without restriction like software protection, then theoretically a receiver with the proper decoding will be able to decode the otherwise undecodablity of the player (not sure that is a word, but it is now).

 

[Dave Moritz]

I feel that both Bluray and HD-DVD should have more than 5.1 analog outputs. It is rediculous that there are 7.1 recievers and both lossless Dolby and DTS formats are maxed at 8 channels. But what do they do they release players with 5.1 outputs and 5.1 surround mixes. There is no reason why they could not include 7.1 analog conections even if they are going to only release 5.1 mixes for now.

 

[Mark Basile]

Do we know for a fact that it will NOT decode True-HD or DTS-HD? No review model has been made available yet, and the available specifications are not clear.

Frankly, I'd be surprised, particularly with 20th Century Fox's releases next month, if Sony's flagship player didn't internally decode these formats. Otherwise, we would have to wait 6 or more months until HDMI 1.3 is officially rolled out.

That being said, I will not purchase the Sony, or any other Blu-Ray player, unless it does support these formats.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I believe from what Sony said from CES and the information on there web site that not only will the Sony not have HDMI 1.3 but will be using HDMI 1.2a. But there is no reason to my knowledge to believe that Sony will offer internal decoding of Dolby True HD or DTS-HD. The only player that even displays the logos for those formats is the Sharp. And I honestly can't see myself spending $1k or more on a Sharp player. Thats not the direction I want to go with my HT to be honest. I just want a nicer brand and better player than a Sharp, thats all.

 

[ppltd]

I guess we are seeing the fallout from not making these decodes mandatory at the hardware level. As I see it, this s a problem for BD. While not a hugh issue, certainly a problem.

Thomas Eisenmann

 

[DaViD Boulet]

It really ticks me off. I can understand why early BD products might eliminate HDMI 1.3 because of limited availability and high-cost for that board.

But there is NO REASON why these players can't be providing full audio performance via internal decoding to LPCM. NONE. Even if it added more cost to the player, then charge it. Early adoptors would rather pay a premium for a player that really peforms than $1K for something they know will lose value and need replacing within a year when they want to upgrade to a new unit with full audio potential.

Now granted, Toshiba's new flaship player with 1080p (and HDMI 1.3) is priced at 1K. But it offers advanced audio (DTS HD as well? Is that confirmed?). There's nothing special that makes this possible with HD DVD and not for BD. Pioneer, with their "high end" goal, should be embarassed that their unit won't decode.

A few more points to clarify:

HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 can NOT be upgraded to 1.3 via firmware. It's a physically new board/port.

Also, there are chipsets that are required for advanced auido decoding that would need to be included in players from the start in order for them to ever be able to decode. Beware of "upgradable" comments regarding advanced audio... unless a manufacture put in the chip but didn't have time to re-write the firmware before release and plans to offer that as a later upgrade, simply having an "upgradable" player without the audio chipsets on the board to begin with won't be able to give you DTS-HD and D True HD in the future.

 

[Dave Moritz]

If I remember a video report from CEDIA correctly. A rep from Pioneer was asked if there Bluray player would include HDMI 1.3 and the reply was something like " oh you guys are just all about the newer codex ". I did not care for that kind of repsonse from a company rep at all. I would have come back with " geee what was I thinking your right I would rather have something that does not perform to the formats full potnetial, silly me".

While I would really love to rush out and buy a new Bluray player I can not justify having to go out and buy the player a second time with a years time! I will have to put off buying a Bluray player until HDMI 1.3 is available. :frowning: