Rogue M-120 Monoblocks, Anthem AVM-20 and Paradigm (1 Viewer)

[Chas_T]

I've been toying with the idea of incorporating a tube amp into my system for 2 channel listeing the past few weeks and I'd like some input on this hypothetical plan.

My current system is as follows:

Studio 100's
Studio 40's
Reference Center
Sherbourn 5 1500A Biamping fronts and 1 channel for center
Modial Aragon 8002 powering rears
Anthem AVM-20

I am thinking of using the Rouge Monoblocks for two channel listening and moving the Sherbourn to power the center and the rears.

I had another idea initially of just bringing a single tube amp into the mix here. However, having multiple amps using a switching device for the front speakers seems like a hassle. I've written that idea off. Maybe I'll have to do the same here.

After speaking with the Rouge people today, apparently this idea is not an unusual situation mixing tubes and solid state. The gentleman I spoke with told me it's pretty common place.

However, after speaking with him, it seems to be just the opposite most of the time where a user will have a solid state amp using a tube pre-pro.

My concern is the following:

1. Timber matching with the center
2. Solid state Anthem AVM-20 pre/pro with a tube amp/amps
3. Also, a concern is the Paradigm match with tubes because they are power hungry and I've never heard the Studio's with tubes.

Could anyone please provide experience or comments on such an idea.

Thanks are always in advance,
Charles

 

[DanielM]

a concern is the Paradigm match with tubes because they are power hungry

I had the m-120,s in house for a while powering apogee stages..the m-120,s did not even breathe hard those amps are monsters..and the apogees are a much tougher load than your paradigm..the m-120,are not like tube amps of old they are much closer to a solid state amp which may or may not be a good thing

 

[Mark Leitch]

The biggest down side to using tube amps in a HT IMHO is you put a lot of junk miles on the tubes. I use my HT for gaming, TV, etc and at the current cost of retubing I use my tubes only for two channel.

M.

 

[GalenValentine]

Chas_T, you have an interesting setup already. I am in the process of bi-amping my Paradigm Reference Studio 60s with a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200 watts/ch 5-ch. power amp. Are you using passive or active bi-amping i.e. have you disconnected the internal cross-overs of the Paradigms?

I am new to this forum but have been haunting the Audiogon (mostly 2-ch stuff but a good deal of HT as well) site for about two years. Most people, though not all, do seem to go the tubed pre/solid state power route rather than the other way around. In fact, that is my current setup at the moment.

As for matching a solid state pre/pro to tubed power amps I don't think there would be a problem. Especially considering that the Anthem AVM20 is made by the same company who builds the Sonic Frontiers Line 1,2, and 3 tubed pre. There seems to be a general rule of thumb that the output impedance of the pre must be 1/10th or smaller of the input impedance of the power amp. I'm not sure if this is strictly for tubed equipment or for anything. You might do a search on Audiogon for more information.

You may have a problem with Timbre matching though. I think you would potentially have a problem anytime you use a different brand/model power amp to power the center and main L/R channels. This is where auditioning is important. You should be able to find a dealer, local or otherwise, that has a generous in-home trial or return policy.

 

[Chas_T]

Dan:

You may have a problem with Timbre matching though. I think you would potentially have a problem anytime you use a different brand/model power amp to power the center and main L/R channels. This is where auditioning is important. You should be able to find a dealer, local or otherwise, that has a generous in-home trial or return policy.

This is another of my major concerns for HT use. A fortunate item is I am a few miles from the Rogue business/manufacturing site, so I am hoping to spend some time there next week to audition and see if they would be open to a trial period with their product.

Their dealer network is sparse and driving time would be about 2-3 hours in one direction for a dealer. However, I will have to buy a component from a dealer as Rouge will not sell direct. I've cleared that up with them already.

 

[GalenValentine]

Tube cost is dependent on type, number, and how often you use them. Here are some tube sites you can go to for prices.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com
http://www.tubeworld.com
http://www.thetubestore.com
http://www.vintagetubeservices.com
http://www.raretubes.com/
All of these sites were recommended by various posters at Audiogon. I've dealt with Kevin at Upscale Audio but not any of the others. Kevin's site is also good for some introductory material about tubes e.g. lifetime, quality, fakes, etc.
The tubes in my pre cost about $30 for a British Genelex 6X4 rectifier and $135 for 3 Mullard CV4004 12AX7.
I have another question about your passive bi-amping if you don't mind. How much of a difference did you notice between bi-wiring and bi-amping? I found audible differences between single and bi-wire. I wonder if the differences are just as audible between bi-wire and bi-amp.

 

[Chas_T]

Galen..

Thank you for the web sites. I especially will check out the upscale audio site and maybe even request some feedback from Kevin if he is willing to share his experience with my potential plan here.

The prices on those tubes are not extreme. I spend that amount on CD's sometimes in a month.

I have another question about your passive bi-amping if you don't mind. How much of a difference did you notice between bi-wiring and bi-amping? I found audible differences between single and bi-wire. I wonder if the differences are just as audible between bi-wire and bi-amp.

Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question on bi-wiring and bi-amping on the 100's. In my situation, both amps were available when I purchased the 100's. I went right for the jugular and bi-amped them immediately, bypassing bi-wiring or single channel amping/wiring.

However, I can share this with you. I tend to play around with configurations a lot as I have a few amps sitting idle in my house.

I wired a pair of Studio 40's with one connection to a Parasound 855A initally. I then bi-amped them and there was a marked improvement in soundstage, less muddy bass, more mid's and the vocals were smoother.

It would be better to use an active crossover and disable the internal on the speaker. However, being a "laid back" guy, this method works for me.