Robert Harris on The Bits: The Alamo (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

"Close, but no cigar."

Originally Posted by RolandL /img/forum/go_quote.gif">
At thedigitalbits.com Mr. Harris said:
"For over thirty years, the original Roadshow version of the film was feared lost, until in 1991 a lone surviving 70mm print was found in remarkably good condition in a film exchange in Toronto."
and

 

[DakotaSurfer]

I just saw a new release by Dimitri Tiomkin of The Alamo soundtrack and in the description where it states what is included in this new CD set is a statement that "New “Directors Cut” of the Complete Epic Film now in Preparation". Are they talking about the one you are working on or is someone else doing a director's cut? The statement was made on the SAE (Screen Archives Entertainment) website where the CD is available.

 

[Robert Harris]

They're being hopeful. I doubt that anything can move forward until M-G-M reaches their desired financial stability.

 

[jim_falconer]

Robert, Best of luck with this on-going project. My director's cut laserdisc is one of my prized possessions. I hope the finances are eventually there to make this restoration possible. By the way, I just came back from a family vacation to Colonial Williamsburg, and watched a screening of the film 'The First Patriot'. As the credits are rolling, who's name do I see up there on the screen? None other than our old friend Mr. Harris! I start telling my kids, but it just kind of flies over their heads. Nice job with restoring that print...it looked and sounded great!

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim_falconer
Robert, Best of luck with this on-going project. My director's cut laserdisc is one of my prized possessions. I hope the finances are eventually there to make this restoration possible. By the way, I just came back from a family vacation to Colonial Williamsburg, and watched a screening of the film 'The First Patriot'. As the credits are rolling, who's name do I see up there on the screen? None other than our old friend Mr. Harris! I start telling my kids, but it just kind of flies over their heads. Nice job with restoring that print...it looked and sounded great!

CWF is a terrific organization. Pleased you were able to visit. I first saw that film when I was 12.

 

[RolandL]

Wasn't "The First Patriot" originally shown in a VistaVision print and then converted to 70mm?

 

[Robert Harris]

Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot was screened in a unique format from its premiere in 1957 into about the 1970s. It was the only production to be presented in 35mm VistaVision 6-Track magnetic, with an extraordinary Todd-AO mix. I'd now like to find a financial means of taking re-scanning in 6k toward eventual 4k projection.

Patriot is an extraordinary film that's been running nonstop for over fifty years, has been viewed by over 30 million Williamsburg visitors, and has a great deal of life in it.

RAH

 

[DakotaSurfer]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris
They're being hopeful. I doubt that anything can move forward until M-G-M reaches their desired financial stability.

After reading the EW article about the Bond films and other M-G-M woes it doesn't sound good for them. No potential buyers and they are canceling projects. Instead of Bond23 the lot is being used by the next Pirates film. The Hobbit and The Three Stooges projects lost main actors and funding and the only thing in the can is a remake of Red Dawn. (yuck) Could they be down for the count? Do you see them maybe selling the rights to this for an infusion?

 

[Robert Harris]

MGM has a superb, but troubled library. They also have some terrific execs in place.
I'm sure they'll pull through.

 

[Jamie E]

Boy, I hate to think pessimistically, but given the delay in project funding, MGM's deep financial woes, and the fact that the deterioration by "vinegarization" of the only surviving 70mm road show print is unstoppable regardless of storage method used, I just can't help it.

Mr. Harris, is it nearing the "point of no return" for the 70mm deterioration, or is there still a lot of time left to begin work? It's so depressing to think that another important piece of film history may be lost.

 

[Robert Harris]

Time left?

Uh, no.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

If there's no time left for the vinegared elements, what would you be working from for the proposed restoration?

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
If there's no time left for the vinegared elements, what would you be working from for the proposed restoration?

Interesting question.

One keeps the elements in the best possible environment, and prays nightly to the nitrate/vinegar gods.

 

[Jamie E]

Oh, ouch. Well, I guess all we have left now is hope and faith! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[John Hodson]

Note:

Originally Posted by Jamie E
Oh, ouch. Well, I guess all we have left now is hope and faith!

And charity. The holy trinity; could come in useful.

 

[Ernest]

I own a copy of the laserdisc of the Alamo and on the box it states "Deluxe Letter-Box Edition" restored original Director's Cut. The laserdisc includes the entrance and exit music. In describing the restoration the literature states "this is the first time the complete 202 minute "roadshow version" has been seen since the premier engagement in 1960. Two weeks after the initial release the movie was re-cut to 162 minutes. The restored footage was transferred from an uncut 70MM print discovered in Toronto and seamlessly edited into the 1990 digital masters.

Why can't the 1990 restored digital masters be used to create a BluRay disc? PBS has shown the complete "roadshow version" in letterbox comparable to a standard DVD with average detail. Maybe PBS is showing a copy of the master that was used to create the laserdisc?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Originally Posted by Ernest
I own a copy of the laserdisc of the Alamo and on the box it states "Deluxe Letter-Box Edition" restored original Director's Cut. The laserdisc includes the entrance and exit music. In describing the restoration the literature states "this is the first time the complete 202 minute "roadshow version" has been seen since the premier engagement in 1960. Two weeks after the initial release the movie was re-cut to 162 minutes. The restored footage was transferred from an uncut 70MM print discovered in Toronto and seamlessly edited into the 1990 digital masters.

Why can't the 1990 restored digital masters be used to create a BluRay disc? PBS has shown the complete "roadshow version" in letterbox comparable to a standard DVD with average detail. Maybe PBS is showing a copy of the master that was used to create the laserdisc?

LaserDisc masters were created for that particular format. While it is higher resolution than VHS, it still has shortcomings compared to masters created for DVD and especially BD, specifically no anamorphic enhancement for 16:9 displays and not mastered in HD. In the early days of DVD, there were quite a few DVDs released that were simply "ports" of old LD transfers. To be polite, they looked like garbage, running rampant with digital artifacts and the reduced resolution associated with letterboxed 4:3 transfers. What looks OK in broadcast is simply not up to snuff for today's technology, which is why so many people were annoyed with Lucasfilm when they chose to use THX LD masters to present the original Staw Wars films in their original form. Those masters didn't hold a candle to the masters for the Special Editions, because of the above deficiencies.

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest
I own a copy of the laserdisc of the Alamo and on the box it states "Deluxe Letter-Box Edition" restored original Director's Cut. The laserdisc includes the entrance and exit music. In describing the restoration the literature states "this is the first time the complete 202 minute "roadshow version" has been seen since the premier engagement in 1960. Two weeks after the initial release the movie was re-cut to 162 minutes. The restored footage was transferred from an uncut 70MM print discovered in Toronto and seamlessly edited into the 1990 digital masters.

Why can't the 1990 restored digital masters be used to create a BluRay disc? PBS has shown the complete "roadshow version" in letterbox comparable to a standard DVD with average detail. Maybe PBS is showing a copy of the master that was used to create the laserdisc?

It's sometimes best not to believe everything that one might read on packaging.

 

[DrJohn]

It seems hope is fading that we will have a full restoration. This is so sad. Is there a Plan B, I wonder? Of course, we would all like to see the roadshow "director's cut", but I would actually settle for the "roadshow version" that I saw at the cinema in 1960. And it was roadshow - it was on for weeks at a single cinema in Sheffield, UK, before moving on to other cities one by one - but it wasn't the director's cut and did not include the sequences identified as "restored" in the laser disc version. But, crucially, it had the overture, entr'acte and exit music intact. Hence my disgust to find that these where not on the DVD release when it came out. Now, question - the quality of the DVD, whilst not HD, looks pretty good to me when up scaled to 1080p on a 50" plasma (certainly much better than the laser disc does – the DVD is 16:9 anamorphic for a start). So what was the source for this transfer - is it a different source than the laser disc version? If so, what about the cut footage that just precedes the intermission (where Bowie walks off leaving Crockett on the battlements – on the DVD, we just catch the start of this, before there is a sudden cut to after where the intermission title and entr'acte music should be) - was this cut out for convenience, or does it not exist on the DVD source at all? If it does exist, can we not have a Blu-ray with the sound remastered and the overture music, the sequence leading up to the intermission title, the entr'acte music itself and the exit music included. If the sound elements exist, the critical bit is just the sequence leading up to and including the intermission title, as the overture, entr'acte and exit music are all played against titles (which can be redone or even omitted altogether, as in the cinema). And if the sound elements do exist, a remaster in DTS-HD or lossless PCM would make a BD release very worthwhile, even if the picture is only marginally better than standard DVD quality.
 
Well, just a thought!
 
Back to the original restoration, if there is still hope. Continued good wishes with the fund raising, Mr. Harris. Would you please not reconsider and accept public donations for a special BD release? Donators could have their names inserted in special credits at the end (after the exit music, of course), as Peter Jackson did with the LOTR special editions. I seem to remember that $200 or $300 was charged for this, for which I think you also got a commemorative plaque of some sort. I'm retired and not rich, but I would certainly pay this much - and I am sure that many, many people would pay more (you could have different categories of donations, with the more expensive category having their names larger, on a separate scroll, nicer font etc.)
 
All the Best, whichever way things go!

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrJohn
Back to the original restoration, if there is still hope. Continued good wishes with the fund raising, Mr. Harris. Would you please not reconsider and accept public donations for a special BD release? Donators could have their names inserted in special credits at the end (after the exit music, of course), as Peter Jackson did with the LOTR special editions. I seem to remember that $200 or $300 was charged for this, for which I think you also got a commemorative plaque of some sort. I'm retired and not rich, but I would certainly pay this much - and I am sure that many, many people would pay more (you could have different categories of donations, with the more expensive category having their names larger, on a separate scroll, nicer font etc.)
 
All the Best, whichever way things go!

MGM has requested that individual donors not be involved. The film can only be saved by large single donations, ie. trusts and such or via corporate sponsorship.