Remastered Star Trek films anytime soon? (1 Viewer)

JediFonger · Mar 6, 2008

the edits between DC and theatrical are so different that you can't do seamless like Blade Runner's 3rd disc. it has to be 2 separate versions.

Jason_V · Mar 6, 2008

In this kind of discussion going back many, many years, I've always argued that the original theatrical cut is needed alongside the new re-jiggered edition for posterity. What was released originally was what all of us grew up with. It's a part of film history. It shouldn't get shunted off to the side because we have the ability to redo effects and whatnot.

Warner was spot on in releasing all the BR versions in the same package. The best of all worlds and I thank them for that even if I never watch all three.

LCD22 · Mar 6, 2008

Now that Paramount is working on the feature films for Blu-ray, I want to again plea that they include the original theatrical cut for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. This is the best film featuring the original cast (and doesn't it deserve better?) and I don't want to see the version that was released in the 2-disc "Special Collector's Edition" be the only version released in high-def. I have this sick feeling that's what going to happen.

I would also love it if they included the VHS version as well.

As for the other films... theatrical, with the exception of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The former I hope we'll see all three versions of this film (theatrical, longer VHS version, and DE). The latter I hope it's the theatrical as well as the longer television cut.

And all the theatrical trailers in 1080p and all bonus features ported over from the 2-disc sets.

Now as far as Nemesis is concern, I have no interest in it. But others may.

JediFonger · Apr 10, 2008

oops, i've been neglectful in posting those screencaps i promised. here is one from the europe re-broadcast of TMP. i think it's the theatrical:

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i38...ap15409856.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i38...ap15410332.png

JediFonger · Apr 10, 2008

Scott D S · Apr 10, 2008

Well.. I'm no expert but if Trek looks half as good on Blu-Ray as it does in those screencaps (especially IV and V), I know what kind of player I'll be picking up on Black Friday morning.

As long as Paramount doesn't do a Fox and drops all the extras.

Zack Gibbs · Apr 10, 2008

"Uhura, art the sttle craft to snd by."

What the huh?

Nick Martin · Apr 10, 2008

I'm about to watch The Motion Picture for the first time.

I picked it up for five bucks at Walmart, as the 2-disc Treks were on sale for 2/$10. I picked up Voyage Home and Final Frontier, but Undiscovered Country was not there in stock.

Motion Picture, Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country are the only Trek films I haven't seen, but certainly heard much about.

Zack Gibbs · Apr 10, 2008

I'm going to have to repeat this... What the huh!?

Well, at least you're getting to them. The Motion Picture, it's slow like people say, but it has a scale and majesty to it that hasn't been seen in Trek since. I think it's highly underated.

Final Frontier is mediocre and there's no eye candy at all. :frowning:

The Undiscovered Country is my favorite Trek by far, and IMO is also the best Star Trek movie out of the existing 10. I think it's also the most TOS'esq, from the mood and character work, to the story's political allegory. And VI is the only place in Trek, out of every film and series, that fully realizes the Klingon race. These aren't the half baked samurai of TNG era Trek who's sole character trait is honor, they're a rich and varied culture with true and complex motivations.

Nick Martin · Apr 10, 2008

What's so "What the huh?" about that?

They were just movies I hadn't gotten around to seeing. Didn't matter to me either way. If it weren't for seeing the DVDs at the store for such a bargain, it never would have crossed my mind to suddenly dive into them.

I'm about 1:33 into the film. Ilia's own personality is peaking through the probe's facade, and Spock has just left the ship in a spacesuit. I'm not bored by this one bit. I like this film so far. A bit stuffy, but it's not as dull as it's made out to be. That Enterprise visual/music montage was nice, but would never see the light of day in a current film. Just can't get away with that kind of thing anymore. A shame.

Nelson Au · Apr 10, 2008

I'm guessing the "What the Huh?" comment was in reference to why JediFonger was posting the images?

They look pretty good, but I'm sure they'll look even better once they're reworked for the new BD discs.

Nicholas, its nice to hear your reaction to the Motion Picture. It is the most epic and sweeping of the films as mentioned above. I never heard it called stuffy before! But I think that could refer to the stiffness of the characters, and I mean that with respcts to the way the cast is dealing with the material and being away for a decade.

The musical piece as Kirk and Scotty make their tour of the Enterprise is a wonderful scene as we are re-introduced to one of the main characters of the film, the ship. Hope your subwoofer was on!

Zack Gibbs · Apr 10, 2008

If you look at the screencaps for Star Trek V, the subtitles from one of them read "Uhura, art the sttle craft to snd by." That's what the "huh" was about.

JediFonger · Apr 11, 2008

you guys have got to be kidding me :laugh:

. all these films except teh newer ones like FC+Insurrection look horrendous! :laugh:

. they can be cleaned up and be so much better. witness what DTS LDI did with all 20 bond movies in the ultimate edition and the eventual BD release

. i posted them for you guys to comment how lazy and cheap paramount is for their unwillingness to totally remaster these films in their rightful place.

as for the subtitle, it's just a bug that transcoded closed caption text from the mpeg2 stream. =P. wasn't even supposed to be in the screencap.

Josh Steinberg · Apr 11, 2008

Respectfully, I don't think these films look bad, certainly not "horrendous". No, they don't have that Discovery Channel/"Planet Earth" video look to them, but they were never supposed to look that way. I happened to catch a print of TWOK at a revival house last year, and when I later went to watch the DVD, I was pleasantly surprised and pleased at what a good job the DVD did of replicating the look of that 35mm print.

The current DVDs, in my opinion, do a pretty decent job of representing the films as they originally looked in theaters, which is what I'm looking for in a DVD. I rewatched all of the Star Trek movies last year, and I didn't see anything truly problematic there. LDI does good work, but not every film requires their services. The problems I think LDI excels at fixing (major print damage, making a new digital master from shoddy dupes, etc) aren't problems these Star Trek films have. That LDI worked on all twenty of the original Bond movies doesn't mean that they needed to; certainly Die Another Day didn't require a full-out digital restoration, even if that's what it got.

There's always going to be a fair amount of grain visible in these films, particularly the early ones; that's how they were shot, those were the decisions of the filmmakers. The colors on the DVDs don't appear to be faded, and I didn't notice any substantial print damage. I'm not sure if the transfers used on the latest round of Star Trek DVDs were originally done in HD or SD; certainly these films will look better with less digital compression, but that's not an LDI thing, that's a DVD authoring thing, and I think any potential Blu-Ray release will improve on that. LDI could go back and change the coloring of the image, remove all of the grain digitally, and do a bunch of other things that would completely alter and destroy what had been the filmmakers' intent. But why would I want that?

Subjecting these films to a digital scrubbing that they don't need is far less important to me than having a new DVD or Blu-Ray put out that contains not just one but all versions of the films that have been released in more than one way. Star Trek VI doesn't need an LDI restoration; it needs a DVD that includes the original theatrical version in addition to whatever other cuts they'd like to present. Star Trek: The Motion Picture doesn't need to be scrubbed of its grain or have its colors tinkered with; it needs to be released in it's original theatrical version (as well as the "special longer version" as that's not on DVD) in addition to the newer "director's edition".

YMMV, of course, but I don't see anything in these DVDs to suggest that the films need to go the LDI route. They could be compressed better, but again, that's not an LDI thing, that's a DVD authoring thing.

Zack Gibbs · Apr 11, 2008

I didn't comment on the lastest screencaps because really, they don't mean too much. Couple the fact that they're heavily compressed when sent over satellite/cable, with the fact that the JPEGs compress them even more, and there just isnt' anything to judge. Even if they put these transfers on a Blu-ray disc, and there's no reason to assume they'll use these for an HD release, it doesn't really indicate the final quality. They're fun to look at though, would be funner if there were some FX shots.

Ockeghem · Apr 11, 2008

Nicholas,

I think it's great that you're seeing this film and that you are enjoying it. I waited years for the first Trek film, and it was a treat seeing it on the big screen when it premiered. It's still the only Trek film that I often put on in order to listen to the sound track for its own sake, as it stands alone quite well on its own. I've written up some random thoughts on the film, as well as approximately forty episodes thus far from all six (I count TAS as canonical) series if you are interested in reading them. My hope is one day to finish the canon. For jots and tittles on the film you're watching, you will need to scroll to the bottom of the site, which currently stands at seventy pages. Some of what I've written concerns musical-technical aspects, which is one of my interests. Here is the link: Star Trek Diary

About three or four months ago, I completed my Trek DVD film collection by purchasing the last four films that to that point I hadn't owned. Walmart had quite a bargain going at that time, and I couldn't resist.

Scott D S · Apr 11, 2008

One difference between the Trek films and the Bond films is that the Trek films have never suffered from missing shots, missing subtitles, missing audio, cropped images, and other abnormalities that have plagued the Bond films over the years in various video incarnations.

Considering they've been compressed, I still think those screencaps look good.

Nick Martin · Apr 11, 2008

I couldn't go wrong with 2 for $10 !

I have to re-watch the last 15 or so minutes of it, because it was going on 3:30 AM or so (when I wrote about what I had seen so far, it was during a break because of dog walking requirements) so I was too tired to fully grasp what I was watching, and what Decker and Ilia were doing with all the lightning flashes and whatnot

I'm a film music nut so I'll definitely appreciate your comments on that aspect of the films in your Trek journal. I turned my love of film music into a hobby, combining soundtrack albums with DVDs, editing the films to match instead of the other way around. The Motion Picture is a prime candidate for another one I can do (I've done Treks 2 and 3, as well as First Contact among many other films)

During that Enterprise montage, what immediately came to mind was how different Goldsmith's interpretation of the scene was compared to Horner's in Wrath Of Khan's similar launching sequence.

Neither one is better than the other, just very different and they both work and are very exciting.

Ockeghem · Apr 11, 2008

Well, when I first saw the V'ger concept back in 1979, I was pleasantly surprised. I liked that tie-in with the film.

I know this isn't the appropriate thread, but I too love soundtracks. I'm a fan of Bernard Herrmann, Max Steiner, and a host of others. I love Gerald Fried's work in TOS, and the string work of Herrmann in Fahrenheit 451 and Psycho is top-notch. I own the Milan recording of Elmer Bernstein conducting the Bernard Herrmann Film Scores, and it's a gem.

I particularly liked what you said about "Neither one is better than the other, just very different and they both work and are very exciting." This is often how I look at different composers' (whether soundtrack-related or not) compositional skills, too. I frequently have to put on a 'different set of ears,' if you will, in order to appreciate the gifts one composer has relative to another.

Douglas Monce · Apr 11, 2008

I'd like to see them go back and digitally re composite the the original elements of at least the Klingon battle at the stat of TMP. The matte lines and milky blacks in that sequence have always bothered me.

Doug

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