Need Help building a better sub than my AV15

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by LuisC, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. LuisC

    LuisC Extra

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    I currently have a DIY box i made 1 year ago using a Stryke audio AV15 ported ina 3 cubic foot box. I am using the rhythmik amp with it.

    My q is i want something more powerful than this setup. I almost jumped on the bandwagon of the JL Fathom F113, but man 3300.00 is allot of money for Bass...

    What is a better sub than what i have? I was thinking a tumult and the 1200w plate amp. What do you guys think?
     
  2. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    How much more powerful do you want it? 3 cuft seems pretty dang small for a 15 inch woofer and I think that woofer can take more than the rhythmik amp (350 watts, right?) has to offer. A bigger box and more powerful amp might get you 3-4dB.
     
  3. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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    Check out the new drivers from TC Sounds. The AV15 is very similar to the TC-1000 series. A TC-2000 or TC-3000 and a good pro amp or Buttkicker amp have been proven combinations over the last few months. Build it large and tune it low.

    Fi Car Audio is another source for good drivers. The owner, Scott Atwell, started Resonant Engineering and the build house that supplied Blueprint, SVS' ISD driver and other well known companies. Any of the 18" models in the proper ported enclosure will move massive amounts of are while sounding very good.

    Finally, Soundsplinter has been providing TC Sounds built drivers for a couple of years now. Great customer service as well.

    -Robert
     
  4. LuisC

    LuisC Extra

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    Robert,

    Thank you very much for your response. I should have said i also wnat to stay with a small enclosure for WAF. SO please recommend a 15" sub that i could build.

    Thanks,
    Luis
     
  5. David_P

    David_P Stunt Coordinator

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    AFAIK, the ADA-1200 plate amp is not currently available.

    If you need that much power I would suggest you look at an offboard pro amp... Behringer ep2500 for example.

    Best drivers/cheapest currently available seem to be the TC-2000 series and the line of soundsplinter drivers. The Tempest Classic drivers are cheaper still, but don't have the Xmax of the TC drivers et al.

    If you have room, you'll do better with multiple cheaper drivers and 1200+ watts, as compared to a single Tumult and 1200 watts. Much more efficent, and you can throw some of that efficency away to gain more extension if you desire.

    David
     
  6. LuisC

    LuisC Extra

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    I have a friend with a used ADA1200 for sale. I think i should buy it before he changes his mind....
     
  7. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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    Small and 15" really don't go together but the TC-3000 (now on sale!!!) will get you close. Pair it up with a Buttkicker amp running at 2 ohms and the 1,900 watts of power will give you plenty of output.

    -Robert
     
  8. Tom Rosback

    Tom Rosback Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a Tumult and recommend it, but I just looked at the TS parameters on the TC-3000 and it looks really good. You should be able to get it in a small box, and use EQ to flatten the LF response. If it really has an Xmax of 30mm, for the price you can't go wrong. If it has been DUMAX tested to that level, with low distortion, it's a good deal.

    I highly recommmend the Behringer EP2500. I have one and it is well built and performs flawlessly. Bridged into 4 ohms you can get over 2000 watts at 20 Hz. You can get a refurb one for $225 shipped, and with a $340 (shipped) driver and $60 worth of MDF and misc supplies, you'll have BIG BASS in a small box for $625. Wow! Add another $125 for a BFD and you're all in for $750.

    Sweet.
     
  9. Brent_S

    Brent_S Second Unit

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    Luis,

    I think you need to better define your hard requirements before we can offer any real suggestions. The AV15 is a pretty capable driver. Do you have the T/S parameters for your AV15? I have a AV15 Mk1 and Mk3 with significantly different T/S parms in my WinISD library. Which Rythmik amp do you have? What is your cabinet size constraint? What's the total budget? What size room? Have you used an SPL meter to measure your listening levels so we'll have an idea of how much output you need from the sub? What type of system are you matching it with?

    Some of the other drivers mentioned here *can* give you more output than the AV15 if you put them in the right alignment and give them enough power. The iron rule of subwoofers is low, loud, small...pick 2. Sub output is really the sum of the cabinet alignment, driver, and amp.

    What is your current sub tuned to? Like Ryan said, 3 ft^3 is pretty small for a ported 15". I originally assumed it must be sealed since the AV15mk1 actually models pretty well that way, but you clearly say ported...the Mk3 wants a much bigger box. I can't find a ported alignment I really like with 3 ft^3. 4 ft^3 looks a little better, but 6 ft^3 and up is where the real down deep output is for the AV15 and most other 15" drivers I've modeled.

    -Brent
     
  10. ClaudeL

    ClaudeL Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been an owner of both the Tumult and a TC Sounds TC2000 subwoofer. I used the Tumult with 2400W of power in a 2.5 cuft sealed enclosure and the TC2000 with 2400W of power as well in a vented 5 cuft enclosure tuned at 20 Hz. The TC2000 I had, had the tall surround of the TC3000 and let me say that the TC2000 outgunned in ANY WAY the Tumult for value for the money. I know it was in a vented enclosure but I'm not intending here to compare the SPL. YES the TC2000 was louder in any way... but yeah you know, a vented enclosure. Even that, I liked better the TC2000 than the Tumult. For one, the TC2000 has really more clearance than the Tumult and it helps A LOT in movies. My TC2000 could be unbeleivable at staying clean passed its Xmax, I could hear a clear and undistorted BAM! in a movie while the woofer was moving a true 3 each peak to peak, that is no joke. And this is certainly because of its large 10" spiders + the tall surround because I tested the same subwoofer with a top assembly with the normal TC2000 surround and during that same passage, it could distort due to its supension (not bottoming out however but sounded almost like it). Also, the TC2000 had a greater top end than the Tumult, midbass was played really better on it and the bass was snapier, more dynamic and tighter. That was maybe due to the high inductance the old Tumult has, the new ones have really lower inductance so the midbass should be better. Midbass is maybe not that much regarded by many people but I find it very important even if you crossover a subwoofer at 80 Hz. Because I found that among all the subwoofers I owned in the past, I found that any subwoofer with a lack of top end lacks some very fast dynamics and energy. For example in a very fast paced rock song, the bass of a subwoofer which lacks some top end sounds less dry, less true to any kick drum. This is my opinion of course, everyone has different taste for bass reproduction.

    The Tumult has great points however and this is not a bad driver in any way. Clean bass. That is true that whatever its cone moves at 5mm or 20mm, it sounds the SAME. I mean... not even a bit more distortion, it sounds really distortion free. Plus this driver was really good in a sealed box, certainly due to its Fs, so I got very good extension to the low 20s without any equalisation. That driver sounded really low when it has to!

    However, despite those good points, the Tumult isnt a bad driver but I still prefer the TC2000. Especially because it can sounds cleaner than the Tumult during very high excursion, the TC2000 stays just more controlled. The TC2000 is tougher too, with excessive clipping from my Behringer EP2500 amplifier, the TC2000 subwoofer still sounded very good (some distortion I acknowledge) but I was blown away. With lots of abuse, I could smell sometimes that the coil was hot [​IMG] but after unscrewing the top assembly, I saw that the voice coil didnt change of color. Same anodized aluminium voice coil color than before. I think that what I smell was the glue getting hot.

    The TC2000 are gonna get some change and the new one should be released soon. They will have the tall surround of the TC3000 and the motor may be a bit stronger than before. If they stay at the same price, I cant stop to tell to other people that those drivers are unbeatable for the money. You can get almost two of them for a Tumult! I think now that pretty all Adire drivers are all overpriced except for the old Shiva and Tempest. For sure, Im beeing a TC Sounds lover all the way, I really fell in love with their TC2000 and their replacable top assembly. I absolutely want to try one of their LMS driver, certainly one of their upcoming LMS-4100 NEO. Imagine, a linear driver, 38mm of ONE WAY COMPLETELY LINEAR bass, because their rating of linear bass is not the same than XBL^2 subwoofers. The BL is 100% kept at their full Xmax rating, plus good sensitivity. wow... I cant wait [​IMG]
     
  11. BryanDO

    BryanDO Stunt Coordinator

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    For a low price solution, I'd say try out a couple Adire Tempests powered by a QSC or similar pro amp. Tempest can be found here at creativesound.ca for a great price and a pro amp (QSC, Crown, etc..) can be found on Ebay for less than 200 bucks.

    I don't think you can get much more speaker for the price than an Adire Tempest or Shiva. But thats just my 2 cents.

    P.S. If your willing to spend 3 grand on a JL sub, STOP! You could build a DIY set-up for a fraction of the cost that could outperform it.
     

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