Marvel's GUARDIANS of the GALAXY Vol. 2: May 5th, 2017 (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Edit: Nobody except Josh, thought it would happen so everybody should be happy as we rejoice this development while we look forward to the third film of this series.

With that said, can we all get along? If not then use the "ignore" feature as there appears to be some conflict that has been reported to the moderators.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

And be honest Malcolm and Josh. Did you think this was going to happen?

I really did. I didn’t think I was going to persuade anyone and I wasn’t really interested in trying to, but the longer it went on without a director being hired, the more sure I was. I think they made a big mistake and it was very apparent early on, and it was just a matter of how they were going to undo it. And then when Gunn was hired for Suicide Squad 2 and absolutely no one objected, I think that probably was the final thing that persuaded Disney that there would be no blowback for rehiring him. Gunn was smart and kept his mouth shut and didn’t do anything to poison the well, but he did go out and get a high profile replacement job, proving that his name was still valuable and his services still in demand. I honestly thought once he was hired to write SS2 and there was no outcry, that he would have been hired back then. But honestly, no, I’m not surprised by this outcome.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I really did. I didn’t think I was going to persuade anyone and I wasn’t really interested in trying to, but the longer it went on without a director being hired, the more sure I was. I think they made a big mistake and it was very apparent early on, and it was just a matter of how they were going to undo it. And then when Gunn was hired for Suicide Squad 2 and absolutely no one objected, I think that probably was the final thing that persuaded Disney that there would be no blowback for rehiring him. Gunn was smart and kept his mouth shut and didn’t do anything to poison the well, but he did go out and get a high profile replacement job, proving that his name was still valuable and his services still in demand. I honestly thought once he was hired to write SS2 and there was no outcry, that he would have been hired back then. But honestly, no, I’m not surprised by this outcome.

Then you're smarter than the rest of us.

 

[Wayne_j]

I thought it should have happened but didn't expect Disney to ever do it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Then you're smarter than the rest of us.

Maybe I was just more stubborn or deeper in denial on this one

 

[Robert Crawford]

I thought it should have happened but didn't expect Disney to ever do it.

Same here, I didn't expect higher management to admit they made a mistake by re-hiring him.

 

[Josh Dial]

And be honest Malcolm and Josh. Did you think this was going to happen?

I did. I honestly thought it would happen before the end of 2018, though, and Disney/Marvel would use Gunn in promo work for (the then-untitled) Endgame.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I did. I honestly thought it would happen before the end of 2018, though, and Disney/Marvel would use Gunn in promo work for (the then-untitled) Endgame.

We are Josh.

 

[Malcolm R]

Like Robert, I didn't really think it was very likely, or that Disney would admit they were wrong and backtrack on their decision. At thte same time, I didn't really see any other way for them to restore the franchise. There didn't seem to be any other directors jumping at the vacancy, and they risked alienating a share of the potential audience, as well as creating bad blood with the cast and the Marvel division. So I'm glad they came to their senses.

 

[holtge]

So say we all!

 

[Jake Lipson]

Shortly after Gunn's firing, I wrote a letter to Bob Iger and Alan Horn urging them to reinstate him. I though at that time that they could perhaps be persuaded to recognize their error in judgment.

However, there came a point after the cast wrote their letter when Disney reaffirmed their decision not to rehire him back. At that point, I began to think that it was a dead issue. So did Gunn apparently, because that's when he signed on for Suicide Squad (which we all know he wouldn't be doing at all if Disney hadn't fired him in the first place.)

However, I am certainly glad they came to their senses and things can move forward now.

 

[Tino]

I really did. I didn’t think I was going to persuade anyone and I wasn’t really interested in trying to, but the longer it went on without a director being hired, the more sure I was. I think they made a big mistake and it was very apparent early on, and it was just a matter of how they were going to undo it. And then when Gunn was hired for Suicide Squad 2 and absolutely no one objected, I think that probably was the final thing that persuaded Disney that there would be no blowback for rehiring him. Gunn was smart and kept his mouth shut and didn’t do anything to poison the well, but he did go out and get a high profile replacement job, proving that his name was still valuable and his services still in demand. I honestly thought once he was hired to write SS2 and there was no outcry, that he would have been hired back then. But honestly, no, I’m not surprised by this outcome.

I was actually asking Josh Dial and Malcolm since they so graciously dug up my old posts.

But thanks for responding anyway.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I was actually asking Josh Dial and Malcolm since they so graciously dug up my old posts.

But thanks for responding anyway.

Sorry, I missed that part - it’s not the first time we’ve mixed ourselves up round these parts. I’m still can’t remember which side of the mirror we’re from.

 

[Sam Favate]

I don't believe I've seen anyone (here or elsewhere) not be happy about this decision. Let's enjoy the moment. There will surely be other frustrating moments along the way for movie fans (just look at what's happening with the Ezra Miller Flash movie right now!).

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Road to Endgame Revisit #11:
I don't actually own either of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, out of an unfounded, probably mistaken, yet unshakable belief that Disney will someday do a UHD upconvert of the first film and release a Guardians of the Galaxy, Vols. 1 & 2 UHD double feature.

So I watched Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 on Netflix, without the option of James Gunn's audio commentary.

The opening credits sequence, depicting an epic battle between the Guardians and a massive space beast from the perspective of Baby Groot dancing to "Mr. Blue Sky" by ELO, is pure joy.

But the rest of the first act is much rougher. The humor feels more forced, the dialogue feels more "written", and the structure was clunkier. When Gunn came onto the first film, there was already a screenplay by Nicole Perlman. Perlman had selected the Guardians of the Galaxy for development from Marvel's deeper/more obscure cuts, selected the team lineup that the movie would use, and wrote the initial draft. While Gunn obviously added a lot to it and gave the film his distinctive voice and humor in subsequent drafts, the structure of the film was already there. Vol. 2 suffered a bit without that scaffolding to guide him.

The back half of the film is a pretty big swing, telling a classic sort of science fiction story that we don't see much of any more. The primary antagonist is a sentient planet with godlike powers. If you're a general audience member coming to this movie for the humor and the action sequences, there's a lot less for you to hold on to.

I do love the look of the film, which is at least as vibrant and colorful as the first movie, but without feeling garish like that one did. Ben Davis and Charles Wood, the cinematographer and production designer respectively on the first film, had already signed onto Doctor Strange, so Gunn brought in Henry Braham (The Golden Compass) to light and shoot the film, and Scott Chambliss (Star Trek, Cowboys & Aliens, Tomorrowland) to design the sets. I think both of their contributions are an improvement over the first film in just about every way. Everything on the surface of Ego feels like it's straight off of a 1960s paperback cover for a Robert Heinlein novel. This was the first (only?) MCU film shot using RED cameras. The images generated by RED cameras are less film-like than the images generated by Arri Alexa cameras, but I really dig the look. The integration of the live action elements with the CG environments is much better here than the first film.

One of the film's great strengths is that the Guardians are a family by this point. Everything that plays into that or feeds off that is to the film's benefit. Yondu and Nebula are on the periphery of the Guardians for most of the film, and a lot of the tension that feeds their storylines is whether they'll be welcomed into the fold or not, and whether they'll allow themselves to accept it if they do.

If Thor: The Dark World was Loki's evolution from villain to antihero, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is Nebula's evolution from villain to antihero. Gamora and Nebula don't actually have a ton of screen time together in the movie but every scene they do share is so potent; Thanos has pitted them against each other their entire lives and only now, as adults, are they redefining their relationship on their own terms.

The will they/won't they thing between Quill and Gamora is a bit too on the nose for me; the fact that it's repeated called out explicitly in the film doesn't change the fact that it's a dynamic we've seen many, many, many times before.

I don't think Ego really works as a villain. He's too much of a narcissistic sociopath to invest much emotional energy in one way or another. Having a threat that puts all life in the universe at stake feels too big for a non-Avengers movie. But none of that is Kurt Russell's fault. He does a great job with everything he's been handed, and makes it work about as good as it's possible to work. The deaging in the car with Quill's mom at the beginning of the film is also among the best of that technique we've seen so far.

The use of music in this film, which felt so fresh an interesting for a space opera in the first film, begins to feel a little stale and perfunctory at times here. There's going to be a fight scene, and it's going to be set to a radio single from the sixties or seventies. Rinse and repeat.

The one exception is the use of "Father and Son" from Cat Stevens's Tea for the Tillerman as the musical accompaniment of Yondu's Ravager funeral. Same general template as the other music, but a very different kind of song for a very different kind of purpose. I love that that scene was played straight, and that Yondu's death was allowed to have real weight and meaning. Michael Rooker is always good, and he was a lot of fun in the first film. But he's great here, paying off elements of his character that we only got glimpses of in the first movie.

Connections to other parts of the MCU: This film really cemented the look of the cosmic side of the MCU, in a way that is carried forward in the look of Avengers: Infinity War. Nebula is off to try and kill Thanos. Howard the Duck made it out of The Collector's grasp and found his way to a red light district planet. Yondu's old Ravager team is revealed to be the original 1960s Guardians of the Galaxy: Sylvester Stallone as Stakar Ogord/Starhawk, Michael Rosenbaum as Martinex, Ving Rhames as Charlie-27, Michelle Yeoh as Aleta Ogord and Miley Cyrus voicing Mainframe. Perhaps the big one is that Stan Lee is actually an observer for the Watchers, and all of his cameos are perhaps the same character. There was a mid-credits sequence I didn't understand at all, but which I am assured portends the arrival of Adam Warlock. Jeff Goldblum’s Grandmaster from Thor: Ragnarok pops up in the credits, dancing.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think I'm in a distinct minority in that I think Guardians 2 is far superior to the first film.

I enjoy the first Guardians movie, but I'm kinda baffled over the response that it gets. Most critics and many fans have praised the film as being something unlike any film that has ever been made in the history of the film, and the riskiest and most obscure thing that Disney could ever have done. And, when I watch the movie, I just don't see those descriptions applying to it. The first Guardians movie strikes me as a by-the-numbers buddy team-up comedy/action movie. We've seen plenty of characters like Quill and Gamora and Rocket and Groot before. The only thing that makes them different is that Gamora is an alien, Rocket is a talking racoon, and Groot is a walking tree. But their personalities and personas and the type of conflicts in the story have been done over and over. I think Guardians does do a good job of making old tropes feel fresh. But I don't find anything about that movie to be innovative. And I think that's okay too, I don't think a movie needs to be innovative to be good.

But Guardians 2, that movie feels fresher to me than the first one. I was initially very skeptical when the movie was announced. I didn't think it was necessary to bring back Nebula and Yondu, and the announcement that those characters were returning had me deeply concerned. I've seen too many sequels (and long running TV shows) where characters who had outlasted their use remained involved in the story not because the story demanded it, but because the actors were already under contract. But, much to my surprise, Guardians 2 deepens the portrayals of those characters rather than forcing them to go through the same story machinations a second time. Both Yondu and Nebula are compelling characters in Guardians 2; in the first movie, they felt more like plot devices.

Visually, the second film is much more exciting than the first one to me.

I do think the end battle goes on too long, as is often the case in these Marvel films. The amount of explosions far outpaces the amount of actual plot content in those final scenes, and while I wouldn't eliminate the battle completely, I think it could have been wrapped up in a little less time.

But on the whole, I find Guardians 2 to be a tremendous improvement over the original.

 

[Tommy R]

As someone who didn’t care for the first Guardians, I was surprised at how much I loved Vol. 2. Top tier Marvel all the way!

 

[Sam Favate]

Everything on the surface of Ego feels like it's straight off of a 1960s paperback cover for a Robert Heinlein novel.

One of the inspirations credited to the look was artist Al Williamson, who drew Flash Gordon in the 60s and 70s, and the Star Wars comic strip in the late 70s-early 80s, as well as Marvel's adaptations of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Williamson's planet views are beautiful to look at and I can definitely see them in the scenes on Ego.

Here's a sample from his Flash Gordon:

 

[Hanson]

I find both Guardians film to be equal and both are top 5 for me. The first one has the element of surprise and discovery to carry it while the second one has better set pieces. The scene of Baby Groot bringing back all matter of objects instead of the fin just killed me, and the Ravager massacre afterwards is probably my favorite MCU set piece. Do I feel a little bad about cackling in glee over a murder spree? A little bit. But the execution is superb.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I absolutely love the use of Fox on the Run in the first teaser trailer with the scene of Baby Groot and the button pushing. That could have made a great little short film in and of itself.